How do you feel about women not wearing bras? Is it a Sin?

[LaSorcia]

And I didn't even know you were wearing a tire!

It's a spare tire.

 

[Sammy-San]

Really? Casting stones is Old Covenant. I never said anything about looking at women like other men at all. Yet, you are making wrong assumptions. In fact, I actively seek to not look at women when I am in public. For I have eyes for only one woman and that is my beautiful wife.



Bra or no bra. The idea is to make sure she does not show her breasts in such a way that can tempt men. Showing cleavage and or having a see-thru dress (to see the breasts in some way) are not appropriate.


...

Is it wrong to think being unmarried is more moral and righteous than having a wife? Marriage is basically a method sanctioning sexuality- behavior isn't modest, decent, or proper.

 

[Ffraid]

Is it wrong to think being unmarried is more moral and righteous than having a wife? Marriage is basically a method sanctioning sexuality- behavior isn't modest, decent, or proper.

Sexuality is a feature, not a bug.

 

[DingDing]

Sexuality is a feature, not a bug.

I resemble that remark!

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

What I've learnt from this thread. That the "broken record" method is a popular debating tool . You don't need to elaborate. Just keep repeating the same line until your opponents are beaten into submission and give up with a headache. "Please no more!"

 

[Anguspure]

I'm not quite sure I understand, Angus. Are you saying that after being at sea, any physically attractive person has this affect on you? Does what she wears make much difference, then?

And can you expect other people to know that they need to be more modest than "normal" - whatever that is in your culture - for your sake? Is that even a conversation you can have?

Sexual frustration comes from within a person as hormonal/ emotional response. But the way in which it is handled is strongly influenced by the community environment in which one finds oneself.
The physical appearance of a woman have a very strong effect on a man that is attracted to women.
A woman that dresses in a physically attractive way is sending a message, "I wish the person who see's me to find me physically attractive". A woman that dresses in a way that is sexually provocative also sends a message and that message is that I wish you (the sexually frustrated man) to find me sexually attractive.
After a period of only looking at steel, paint, ocean, sky the effect of anything visual is strongly accentuated. The colours of the land look almost cartoonish. Given that going to sea is also a period of sexual deprivation, and given that a mans sexual attraction has a very strong visual conponent to it, any attempt for a woman to look physically or sexually attractive is very obvious and practically impossible to resist.
Paul speaks about this when he warns couples not to deprive one another lest Satan gets in between then.
The Spirit tells me to have self control and that is fair enough, and where there are few visual ques it is much easier.
But my point is that it would be more in accordance with Agape Love for any person, not just a woman, to be aware of the message they are projecting to those in their community in and by the manner of their dress, our church community is a hospital filled broken people being healed by the Love of God and it would be good for us to remain mindful of that.
Certainly, in the contemporary church, this is a conversation that has been had in respect of drug or alcohol problems and it is what Paul intended when he wrote:
So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God— even as I try to please everyone in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.

 

[martinlb]

So ...the topic and question is.... How do you feel about the act of women not wearing a bra at all? Are sometimes okay but not all the time? It just shouldn't be done? She has rights?
Just curious... but please, elaborate! I appreciate all view points!

 

[martinlb]

So ...the topic and question is.... How do you feel about the act of women not wearing a bra at all? Are sometimes okay but not all the time? It just shouldn't be done? She has rights?
Just curious... but please, elaborate! I appreciate all view points!

I haven't read every reply so if I'm just repeating what others have said I apologize. I know that I will probably have a response of some type when I'm around a woman who is noticeably not wearing a bra. The type and strength of my response (maybe better to say, at least initially, "reaction") will vary depending on a number of things. What it comes down to for me is my responsibility to deal with whatever I come across in a way that's accountable and obedient. Sometimes I believe I succeed; sometimes not, but my part in anything like this has to be focused on me. I've had no shortage (probably not the least bit uncommon) of being judged and as I type this I realize that the most powerful temptation upon seeing something like an attractive woman not wearing a bra is the temptation to make my response her fault and to judge her. That's the more likely and more "subtle" sin.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Is it wrong to think being unmarried is more moral and righteous than having a wife? Marriage is basically a method sanctioning sexuality- behavior isn't modest, decent, or proper.

Sorry. You went completely left field for me. You lost me. Please explain a little more clearly.

...

 

[Philip_B]

The bra is insignificant. The point is not to show the breasts so as to tempt men into lusting after them. ...

This statement is culturally constrained. This is the kind of logic ends up with women covered head to toe with only a peep hole to stop them tripping.

And God saw all that he had made - and it was good.​

I am not suggesting that people should dress in a way that is not culturally relevant (we can't have a church full of Lady GaGa's!) but neither should we exclude the Lady GaGa's of our world from the Love of Christ.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

If I ever have to shake hands with a Mariah Carey lookalike at peace time in Church, I promise to have only holy thoughts.

 

[Paidiske]

I also do not believe somebody is too poor that they cannot afford a bra (unless they are without a job and money and are living on the streets and are not in the general public eye - which in such a case they are disqualified in tempting men). There are stores today that you can buy things really dirt cheap second hand and or even new.

You might be surprised. Smaller women, or women who are "standard" sizes, can probably find a bra that more or less fits them for a relatively cheap price. Larger women, or women who fall outside the bell curve of normal, can have a much harder time, and it's not uncommon to end up paying a hundred dollars or more for a basic bra in a non-standard size. (Think how many basic meals that money represents and you'll see why this can be an issue in situations of poverty). Add in extra health needs - for example, the sort of bra a woman might need after surgery, or while pregnant (standard bras are not recommended for pregnant women) - and again, the degree of difficulty to find the right thing, and the expense associated with it, goes up.

I have known women in poverty who could not afford the bra they needed. It's not actually uncommon.

It is not "problematic" save for the problem that immodesty causes. If a woman walks in wearing only a thong, is that a problem? Not by your standard. But the standards of the Lord God are high and perfect. Modesty, beginning in the heart, is holiness. If I cause my brother to stumble, I share in his sin.

I didn't say that if a woman walks in wearing only a thong, that's not a problem. (I did suggest it depended where she was walking into, and in what circumstances. Context is everything). What I did say is that none of us can cause another to sin. You might recognise your sin when you react to me, but it is still your sin, and I didn't cause it.

The thing is, we can waffle on and on about modesty endlessly, and fundamentally I don't think any of us are arguing for our society to become a giant nudist colony. But what I think it's helpful to realise is that there is no absolute modesty standard. It's all relative to what our culture finds "normal." In Saudi Arabia what I'm wearing today - jeans and loose t-shirt - would be outrageously immodest. Somewhere else it would be downright prudish. There are cultures where breasts are not sexualised at all and other cultures where an ankle would be the height of provocation. So we take our cues from our context and our culture and pay attention to the messages we send within that context. And that's why all of this angst about bra or no bra, neckline, hemline, whatever, is all really quite meaningless in the abstract.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I haven't read every reply so if I'm just repeating what others have said I apologize. I know that I will probably have a response of some type when I'm around a woman who is noticeably not wearing a bra. The type and strength of my response (maybe better to say, at least initially, "reaction") will vary depending on a number of things. What it comes down to for me is my responsibility to deal with whatever I come across in a way that's accountable and obedient. Sometimes I believe I succeed; sometimes not, but my part in anything like this has to be focused on me. I've had no shortage (probably not the least bit uncommon) of being judged and as I type this I realize that the most powerful temptation upon seeing something like an attractive woman not wearing a bra is the temptation to make my response her fault and to judge her. That's the more likely and more "subtle" sin.

So being able to see thru her shirt and or seeing her cleavage is okay? Regardless of how you react whether she is naked or scantily clad does not change her disobeying God's Word in 1 Timothy 2:9. Then again, chances are if a woman dressed in a provocative manner, she probably is not a Christian anyways. But two wrongs don't make a right. If a man is tempted by a woman who is dressed in a wrong manner, they are both at fault. Just as a man who lusts after a female strip dancer are both at fault.

...

 

[JackRT]

What is all this [bless and do not curse] business?

 

[Philip_B]

So being able to see thru her shirt and or seeing her cleavage is okay? Regardless of how you react whether she is naked or scantily clad does not change her disobeying God's Word in 1 Timothy 2:9. Then again, chances are if a woman dressed in a provocative manner, she probably is not a Christian anyways. But two wrongs don't make a right. If a man is tempted by a woman who is dressed in a wrong manner, they are both at fault. Just as a man who lusts after a female strip dancer are both at fault.

...

I am sorry, but I can't see how this is not your problem, not hers!

Do you have a problem with a buffed toned male wearing a skinny singlet and short shorts?

 

[Paidiske]

Jack, [bless and do not curse] is what happens when someone trips the site's profanity filter. It replaces the nasty words with the words in brackets.

 

[Anguspure]

.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You might be surprised. Smaller women, or women who are "standard" sizes, can probably find a bra that more or less fits them for a relatively cheap price. Larger women, or women who fall outside the bell curve of normal, can have a much harder time, and it's not uncommon to end up paying a hundred dollars or more for a basic bra in a non-standard size. (Think how many basic meals that money represents and you'll see why this can be an issue in situations of poverty). Add in extra health needs - for example, the sort of bra a woman might need after surgery, or while pregnant (standard bras are not recommended for pregnant women) - and again, the degree of difficulty to find the right thing, and the expense associated with it, goes up.

Then the use of an appropriate shirt that would cover their chest area properly would be recommended instead of the see-thru tight shirt with an open area that would reveal cleavage.

I have known women in poverty who could not afford the bra they needed. It's not actually uncommon.

The bra is a non issue in some cases. It is about whether or not their private areas are properly covered.

I didn't say that if a woman walks in wearing only a thong, that's not a problem. (I did suggest it depended where she was walking into, and in what circumstances. Context is everything). What I did say is that none of us can cause another to sin. You might recognise your sin when you react to me, but it is still your sin, and I didn't cause it.

Two murderers who are trying to kill each other for the thrill of the kill does not undo the other's sin. A person who dresses like a hooker in public is doing so in order to gain the attention of sinful men. She is not guiltless by the way she dresses. God does not want His people to dress in such a way so as to make others to stumble or to make others think they are a hooker or a nympho maniac.

The thing is, we can waffle on and on about modesty endlessly, and fundamentally I don't think any of us are arguing for our society to become a giant nudist colony. But what I think it's helpful to realise is that there is no absolute modesty standard. It's all relative to what our culture finds "normal." In Saudi Arabia what I'm wearing today - jeans and loose t-shirt - would be outrageously immodest. Somewhere else it would be downright prudish. There are cultures where breasts are not sexualised at all and other cultures where an ankle would be the height of provocation. So we take our cues from our context and our culture and pay attention to the messages we send within that context. And that's why all of this angst about bra or no bra, neckline, hemline, whatever, is all really quite meaningless in the abstract.

I am talking about the civilized world as a whole and not the jungles of Africa or the Amazon. Nor am I talking about extremist nations or societies, either. Common sense tells us that partially showing or teasing private parts can lead people to think the wrong thing easily. Private parts are to be seen by one's spouse within the privacy of one's own home behind closed doors and covered windows.


...

 

[Philip_B]

Then the use of an appropriate shirt that would cover their chest area properly would be recommended instead of the see-thru tight shirt with an open area that would reveal cleavage.
The bra is a non issue in some cases. It is about whether or not their private areas are properly covered.
Two murderers who are trying to kill each other for the thrill of the kill does not undo the other's sin. A person who dresses like a hooker in public is doing so in order to gain the attention of sinful men. She is not guiltless by the way she dresses. God does not want His people to dress in such a way so as to make others to stumble or to make others think they are a hooker or a nympho maniac.
I am talking about the civilized world as a whole and not the jungles of Africa or the Amazon. Nor am I talking about extremist nations or societies, either. Common sense tells us that partially showing or teasing private parts can lead people to think the wrong thing easily. Private parts are to be seen by one's spouse within the privacy of one's own home behind closed doors and covered windows. ...

Please try not to blame the victim, and I am sorry that is what your argument sounds like. I also don't think the cultural arrogance you bring to the table is helping. I take it that you mean the developed west rather than civilised. I certainly in my time living in Papua New Guinea came to realise that civilisation is not about how big your buildings are but about how gracious your heart is. There will be some gracious women in the places that you refer to who will see this on their ipads, and mobile phones, please think about what they read as well.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Please try not to blame the victim, and I am sorry that is what your argument sounds like. I also don't think the cultural arrogance you bring to the table is helping. I take it that you mean the developed west rather than civilised. I certainly in my time living in Papua New Guinea came to realise that civilisation is not about how big your buildings are but about how gracious your heart is. There will be some gracious women in the places that you refer to who will see this on their ipads, and mobile phones, please think about what they read as well.

When I say uncivilized culture: I was referring to people who live in tribes.

Also, who is the victim in your scenario?

...