How do you feel about women not wearing bras? Is it a Sin?

[dayhiker]

I'll follow your example Kenny.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I'll follow your example Kenny.

Wise choice, all considered.

 

[Steve Petersen]

See, I see this as more akin to a situation where somebody steps on your toes, and then tells you to wear particular shoes so that they are less likely to step on your toes...

What if you have really big....toes?

 

[Archivist]

It certainly is.

No, it isn't. We know that Paul was fishing while naked, yet nothing in Scripture says that it was a sin for him to do so.

And glad you didn't follow that with an actual argument to prove your case, because it would have left me with a tough one...I mean how does one prove something so obvious, when people choose not to see it?

This is off-topic in this thread. If you wish to offer proof in support of something that you incorrectly claim to be "so obvious" then you should start a new thread.

OK, I see, we've changed it to tight fitting shirts now. Some will lust no matter what, that point has been made several times, so sure, If a man chooses to dress that way, just as if a woman chooses the same, there can be lust. Solution...no tight shirts on men or women, and especially if there is no bra. Or...dress modestly.

Or just mind you own business and don't look.

Why don't one of you run a poll. "Is public nudity, regardless if done legally or not, within the bounds of proper Christian activity"...yes/no Actually, word it, "Is it OK for anyone to run around naked?" Common sense has left the thread for some of us...no doubt in my mind.

Absolutely none of which is on point in this thread.

 

[Endtime Survivors]

Using your example, I have a beautiful new home--should i not have bought it because my neighbors might become envious? Should I live in a shack instead? I'm having friends over for dinner this weekend. Should I not serve good food because I might cause one of them who has a weight problem to commit the sin of gluttony? Should I not serve food at all or serve only carrots and celery? The fact is that people have to take responsibility for their own sins.

I'm suggesting the context should be individually evaluated in all those circumstances, rather than the blanket response, "I should be allowed to do what I want because I have the freedom to do what I want".

 

[Archivist]

I'm suggesting the context should be individually evaluated in all those circumstances, rather than the blanket response, "I should be allowed to do what I want because I have the freedom to do what I want".

Then no one should live in a nice house, or wear nice clothing, or drive a nice car because each of those things could cause others to be envious. No one should serve good food because that could cause others to be gluttonous. No one should spend money because that could cause others to be greedy. No one should accomplish anything worthwhile because that could cause others to be proud.

Really?

 

[seashale76]

So ...the topic and question is.... How do you feel about the act of women not wearing a bra at all? Are sometimes okay but not all the time? It just shouldn't be done? She has rights?
Just curious... but please, elaborate! I appreciate all view points!

I feel that there are way more women out there that don't wear bras and that you have absolutely no idea that they're not doing so. That is neither here nor there though.

I think modesty is a good thing. However, you're never going to get all of society on board with that idea. So, your focus shouldn't be on blaming women that aren't following your arbitrary sartorial standards for making you stumble, but to get your own house in order instead. If you're worried about yourself and your own walk with God then what other people are or aren't doing isn't going to affect you either way.

Instead of being the Evangelical Christian version of the Islamic religious police what with forcing women into burkas (or frumpy denim jumpers), put the focus squarely back on what should matter…yourself.

 

[BukiRob]

So, if a Christian brother who struggles with lust asks a Christian sister not to go bra-less (at least around him personally) you would suggest that the sister tell him not to look? I suppose that could work with alcoholics, too. Go to the bar, just don't drink. Or gambling. Go to the casino, just don't gamble. Or any number of areas where people struggle with temptation; just don't do it. If only it really were that simple...

Terrible analogy and YES you are in the wrong.

What shall we tell the young lady that its HER Fault because she is attractive?

Get over yourself if you have a problem blaming a woman is 100% on YOU

 

[Endtime Survivors]

What shall we tell the young lady that its HER Fault because she is attractive?

Nah, I've already said a few times that I don't think we should be laying blame, at least not on superficial judgments.

I'm suggesting we consider motives and surrounding context. I can think of several motives (some of which have already been mentioned a few times) for why a woman may choose to go bra-less. I don't think all motives should be treated the same; each motive should be examined and discussed on its own merits.

That doesn't sound fair to you?

 

[Endtime Survivors]

Really?

No, not really. Your suggestions aren't consistent with what I suggested.

 

[Archivist]

No, not really. Your suggestions aren't consistent with what I suggested.

First of all I didn't make "suggestions". I provided examples. Second, your post stated "I'm suggesting the context should be individually evaluated in all those circumstances, rather than the blanket response, "I should be allowed to do what I want because I have the freedom to do what I want". If what I wrote was not consistent with this statement then perhaps you would like to explain your meaning.

 

[Archivist]

Nah, I've already said a few times that I don't think we should be laying blame, at least not on superficial judgments.

I'm suggesting we consider motives and surrounding context. I can think of several motives (some of which have already been mentioned a few times) for why a woman may choose to go bra-less. I don't think all motives should be treated the same; each motive should be examined and discussed on its own merits.

That doesn't sound fair to you?

No, the women's motive is largely irrelevant. Even if the woman is dressing to look sexy, the fault still lies with the man who is lusting. No one is forcing him to look.

 

[BukiRob]

I'm suggesting the context should be individually evaluated in all those circumstances, rather than the blanket response, "I should be allowed to do what I want because I have the freedom to do what I want".

No, I disagree.... its pretty much none of your business. I mean why stop there? Why dont we add to how long a skirt must be? Or since we are going there... what style of dress is "inappropriate" Heck, why not include makeup, jewlery and fingernail polish... come to think of it, manicured fingernails as well..

 

[BukiRob]

Nah, I've already said a few times that I don't think we should be laying blame, at least not on superficial judgments.

I'm suggesting we consider motives and surrounding context. I can think of several motives (some of which have already been mentioned a few times) for why a woman may choose to go bra-less. I don't think all motives should be treated the same; each motive should be examined and discussed on its own merits.

That doesn't sound fair to you?

No it does not sound fair.... unless the attire is CLEARLY being lecvious in nature, ITS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

 

[Endtime Survivors]

unless the attire is CLEARLY being lecvious in nature

After considering the issues a bit more, I believe this is exactly what the question in the OP implied. It was open-ended enough to appear innocent, but I doubt anyone was thinking of a kindly, elderly woman with a slight hunchback who, for whatever medical reasons, whether physical or mental, chose to go braless, when they read the OP.

You yourself confirm this...

What shall we tell the young lady that its HER Fault because she is attractive?

You imagined a young, attractive woman. Most guys who read the OP probably did, because that is the underlying context of the question. Few men would feel bothered by an unattractive old woman going bra-less. Most people would probably just try to politely not-notice, (assuming she's wearing clothing which clearly indicates that she is, indeed, bra-less) precisely because she is not attractive; she falls outside of what we've been trained to view as sexually stimulating, noticeable, or interesting (at least, to the majority of consumers).

Very few people would find appeal or even reason for controversy in a lascivious (as you suggest) elderly woman. But a young attractive woman? The context unavoidably changes. If she's got a genuine medical reason, or she can't afford a bra (as have been previously suggested reasonable considerations in previous posts), fine. It's good to be flexible and considerate to everyone's issues. But, if either of those are the case, then she'd probably be open to wearing clothing which at least attempts to somewhat moderately conceal that she is bra-less, especially if she's got...errr...prominent breasts.

On the other hand, if her motive is to be "clearly lascivious" (as you suggested as a possibility) then that needs to be considered, too. In the Christian context I think it's not only perfectly fine, but a brotherly duty to protect Christian guys from lascivious behavior. Sometimes we need a "brothers keeper). If a woman deliberately wears a provocative style then that needs to be addressed, but "lascivious" comes across as a fairly dirty word and is probably too strong for some circumstances.

Perhaps the attractive young woman feels insecure about her body and hopes to "show off" a bit? Or, maybe she's interested in attracting a partner and hopes a bit of advertising might help? Btw, I understand guys do this as well, but for the sake of the context of the thread and brevity I'm hoping I don't have to legalistically include "and guys too" every time I generalize regarding some of these behaviors.

Anyway, A young woman who's encouraged to show off her body just for the sake of proving that no man can stop her from doing so, or that she can find a life partner, or that she could feel better about her self image doesn't really seem to be in her best interest, spiritually.

 

[Endtime Survivors]

Even if the woman is dressing to look sexy, the fault still lies with the man who is lusting.

I strongly disagree. Yes, lust is the sole responsibility of the individual, but a woman who deliberately tries to provoke that lust (i.e. "dressing to look sexy" as you've suggested) is also responsible for tempting the guy.

This is why motivation is so important, and probably why you suggest it should be irrelevant. Without motive, the reasons why we do anything become irrelevant, and any kind of behavior can be justified.

I suppose, in that sense, you end up not believing in your own reasoning, because if motive should be irrelevant for the woman, then to be fair it should be irrelevant for the man, too, in which case his complaint is just as valid as the woman's complaint; an unsolvable stalemate which moves nowhere. How depressing.

 

[Archivist]

After considering the issues a bit more, I believe this is exactly what the question in the OP implied. It was open-ended enough to appear innocent, but I doubt anyone was thinking of a kindly, elderly woman with a slight hunchback who, for whatever medical reasons, whether physical or mental, chose to go braless, when they read the OP.

You yourself confirm this...

You imagined a young, attractive woman. Most guys who read the OP probably did, because that is the underlying context of the question. Few men would feel bothered by an unattractive old woman going bra-less. Most people would probably just try to politely not-notice, (assuming she's wearing clothing which clearly indicates that she is, indeed, bra-less) precisely because she is not attractive; she falls outside of what we've been trained to view as sexually stimulating, noticeable, or interesting (at least, to the majority of consumers).

Very few people would find appeal or even reason for controversy in a lascivious (as you suggest) elderly woman. But a young attractive woman? The context unavoidably changes. If she's got a genuine medical reason, or she can't afford a bra (as have been previously suggested reasonable considerations in previous posts), fine. It's good to be flexible and considerate to everyone's issues. But, if either of those are the case, then she'd probably be open to wearing clothing which at least attempts to somewhat moderately conceal that she is bra-less, especially if she's got...errr...prominent breasts.

On the other hand, if her motive is to be "clearly lascivious" (as you suggested as a possibility) then that needs to be considered, too. In the Christian context I think it's not only perfectly fine, but a brotherly duty to protect Christian guys from lascivious behavior. Sometimes we need a "brothers keeper). If a woman deliberately wears a provocative style then that needs to be addressed, but "lascivious" comes across as a fairly dirty word and is probably too strong for some circumstances.

Perhaps the attractive young woman feels insecure about her body and hopes to "show off" a bit? Or, maybe she's interested in attracting a partner and hopes a bit of advertising might help? Btw, I understand guys do this as well, but for the sake of the context of the thread and brevity I'm hoping I don't have to legalistically include "and guys too" every time I generalize regarding some of these behaviors.

Anyway, A young woman who's encouraged to show off her body just for the sake of proving that no man can stop her from doing so, or that she can find a life partner, or that she could feel better about her self image doesn't really seem to be in her best interest, spiritually.

No, her motives are irrelevant. The fault lies with the person who is lusting.

And I return to my earlier examples. I know people who have bought expensive cars--a Lexus, a BMW, not because they had to buy those vehicles but because wanted to show the world that they could afford them, i.e. a person in my position should have a BMW. I know one corporate VP who drives a BMW. He says it is because he likes the feel of the vehicle, but I'm sure that he also wants to show people that he can afford one. Is it their sin if others are envious? Dittos with nice houses or expensive outfits or top quality food. That's motive as well. So where do you draw the line?

 

[JackRT]

No, her motives are irrelevant. The fault lies with the person who is lusting.

And I return to my earlier examples. I know people who have bought expensive cars--a Lexus, a BMW, not because they had to buy those vehicles but because wanted to show the world that they could afford them, i.e. a person in my position should have a BMW. I know one corporate VP who drives a BMW. He says it is because he likes the feel of the vehicle, but I'm sure that he also wants to show people that he can afford one. Is it their sin if others are envious? Dittos with nice houses or expensive outfits or top quality food. That's motive as well. So where do you draw the line?

This entire issue is a male problem not a female one.

 

[Tetra]

I guess it depends what you like.

 

[BukiRob]

After considering the issues a bit more, I believe this is exactly what the question in the OP implied. It was open-ended enough to appear innocent, but I doubt anyone was thinking of a kindly, elderly woman with a slight hunchback who, for whatever medical reasons, whether physical or mental, chose to go braless, when they read the OP.

You yourself confirm this...



You imagined a young, attractive woman. Most guys who read the OP probably did, because that is the underlying context of the question. Few men would feel bothered by an unattractive old woman going bra-less. Most people would probably just try to politely not-notice, (assuming she's wearing clothing which clearly indicates that she is, indeed, bra-less) precisely because she is not attractive; she falls outside of what we've been trained to view as sexually stimulating, noticeable, or interesting (at least, to the majority of consumers).

Very few people would find appeal or even reason for controversy in a lascivious (as you suggest) elderly woman. But a young attractive woman? The context unavoidably changes. If she's got a genuine medical reason, or she can't afford a bra (as have been previously suggested reasonable considerations in previous posts), fine. It's good to be flexible and considerate to everyone's issues. But, if either of those are the case, then she'd probably be open to wearing clothing which at least attempts to somewhat moderately conceal that she is bra-less, especially if she's got...errr...prominent breasts.

On the other hand, if her motive is to be "clearly lascivious" (as you suggested as a possibility) then that needs to be considered, too. In the Christian context I think it's not only perfectly fine, but a brotherly duty to protect Christian guys from lascivious behavior. Sometimes we need a "brothers keeper). If a woman deliberately wears a provocative style then that needs to be addressed, but "lascivious" comes across as a fairly dirty word and is probably too strong for some circumstances.

Perhaps the attractive young woman feels insecure about her body and hopes to "show off" a bit? Or, maybe she's interested in attracting a partner and hopes a bit of advertising might help? Btw, I understand guys do this as well, but for the sake of the context of the thread and brevity I'm hoping I don't have to legalistically include "and guys too" every time I generalize regarding some of these behaviors.

Anyway, A young woman who's encouraged to show off her body just for the sake of proving that no man can stop her from doing so, or that she can find a life partner, or that she could feel better about her self image doesn't really seem to be in her best interest, spiritually.

You've got screws loose if you define a woman choosing not to wear a bra is dressing lasciviously.


Its clear that YOU are the one who has a problem with attractive women. Her wearing or not wearing a bra changes nothing..... In fact I can argue that the bra in most cases ENHANCES the appearance of the female breast by lifting and giving it more cleavage.

If you have a problem with it, its YOU who have a problem and not the woman!