How do you feel about women joining the SEALs?

[Aryeh Jay]

Personally, any woman who would want to be in actual combat where physical close quarters combat is a reality is insane.

Personally, anyone, man or woman, that would WANT to be in combat is insane.

 

[cfyahoo08]

I was actually rolling my eyes at the op. Lessening qualifications on exams for women so that they can fight alongside men when historically the exams have been harder for women to pass seems to me like just more man made rules, so don't blame the women. The amazons at least had there own fighting forces. Maybe history still has lessons that we can learn from.

The amazons ? ?

 

[High Fidelity]

Shouldn't matter so long as she can meet the current standards. Not separate standards... but.the standards in place that determine whether or not a man, or woman, is fit for the post they're pursuing and physically capable when the time comes.

Standards should not be lowered. Allowing them to try and fail is inclusive enough if they aren't fit enough. It they're fit enough, well done them, suit up.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Shouldn't matter so long as she can meet the current standards. Not separate standards... but.the standards in place that determine whether or not a man, or woman, is fit for the post they're pursuing and physically capable when the time comes.

Standards should not be lowered. Allowing them to try and fail is inclusive enough if they aren't fit enough. It they're fit enough, well done them, suit up.

Better them than me.

 

[The Gryphon]

As long as they can do the job and the standards are not lowered to accommodate, more power to them. They are few and far between but I have met a few women that can beat the crap out of most men, out shoot most men, and I would trust my life with.

 

[Doctor.Sphinx]

I heard it was happening and I said, 'If they can do the work let em in.' Then someone said they'd lower the standards women have to go through to pass. After that I rolled my eyes and said, 'No wonder our military is still fighting two third world countries for a longer time than we fought World War II.' What do you folks think?

So long as they can catch fish and jump through hoops, what's the harm in letting them think they're seals?

 

[The Gryphon]

The reason we are still fighting two third world countries has nothing to do with our soldiers abilities but with our politicians and the lack of the American people to prosecute a war as it needs to be fought. It has been so since the Korean "conflict". If America does not intend to WIN a war it should not enter it! America as a society has lacked the will to win since WWII. It goes through the motions, scarifies tens of thousands of its best and brightest but has not through its politicians or its support of the people to force said politicians to make those hard choices that make a decisive victory against a determined enemy as American did against the Japanese during WWII a reality! War is HELL, ugly, and its is mostly NOT fair and rarely moral by modern western standards. Our enemies do not follow modern western standards but violate every form of honor, decency, respect for life as we respect it, serving a system (Islam - which is both a political and religious system) that demands all other political and religions be eradicated until only it remains as stated in its own tenants for those willing to study both the Quran and Hadiths as I have for over 20 years. Unless and until America wakes up to the very nature of the enemy it faces it is going to lose and that grieves me greatly for my grand-childrens' sake. It will lose not because it lacks power but because it lacks the will to properly use it!

 

[The Gryphon]

The reason we are still fighting two third world countries has nothing to do with our soldiers abilities but with our politicians and the lack of the American people to prosecute a war as it needs to be fought. It has been so since the Korean "conflict". If America does not intend to WIN a war it should not enter it! America as a society has lacked the will to win since WWII. It goes through the motions, scarifies tens of thousands of its best and brightest but has not through its politicians or its support of the people to force said politicians to make those hard choices that make a decisive victory against a determined enemy as American did against the Japanese during WWII a reality! War is HELL, ugly, and its is mot fair and rarely moral by modern western standards. Our enemies do not follow modern western standards but violate every form of honor, decency, respect for life as we respect it, serving a system (Islam - which is both a political and religious system) that demands all other political and religions be eradicated until only it remains in its own tenants for those willing to study both the Quran and Hadiths as I have for over 20 years. Unless and until America wakes up to the very nature of the enemy it faces it is going to lose and that grieves me greatly for my grand-children's' sake. It will lose not because it lacks power but because it lacks the will to properly use it!

 

[paul becke]

As long as they can do the job and the standards are not lowered to accommodate, more power to them. They are few and far between but I have met a few women that can beat the crap out of most men, out shoot most men, and I would trust my life with.

The Russians certainly rate their female snipers more highly than their male counterparts. Why shouldn't they be ? I think they found them to be more adaptable. Not sure in what ways they were found to be more adaptable, although it seems to me that women do tend to be more sensible and calculating.

 

[paul becke]

The reason we are still fighting two third world countries has nothing to do with our soldiers abilities but with our politicians and the lack of the American people to prosecute a war as it needs to be fought. It has been so since the Korean "conflict". If America does not intend to WIN a war it should not enter it! America as a society has lacked the will to win since WWII. It goes through the motions, scarifies tens of thousands of its best and brightest but has not through its politicians or its support of the people to force said politicians to make those hard choices that make a decisive victory against a determined enemy as American did against the Japanese during WWII a reality! War is HELL, ugly, and its is mostly NOT fair and rarely moral by modern western standards. Our enemies do not follow modern western standards but violate every form of honor, decency, respect for life as we respect it, serving a system (Islam - which is both a political and religious system) that demands all other political and religions be eradicated until only it remains as stated in its own tenants for those willing to study both the Quran and Hadiths as I have for over 20 years. Unless and until America wakes up to the very nature of the enemy it faces it is going to lose and that grieves me greatly for my grand-childrens' sake. It will lose not because it lacks power but because it lacks the will to properly use it!

It seems to me that if you believe you have any right to even be in Syria, you are very wide of the mark, indeed. And make no mistake, it is not the Russkis or the Muslims who have been using chorine, mustard gas and phosphorous but the Americans. Have you forgotten Agent Orange in Vietnam ? And the so-called 'depleted uranium' shells that, in due course, kill your troops that handle them ? And you reckon your country's moral standards are higher than the Iranians ? The UK's for that matter. We're no better. Arguably worse : the senior demon teachng the junior one.

 

[paul becke]

The Russians certainly rate their female snipers more highly than their male counterparts. Why shouldn't they be ? I think they found them to be more adaptable. Not sure in what ways they were found to be more adaptable, although it seems to me that women do tend to be more sensible and calculating.

Ther aren't many men who are infantry material. It is reckoned that a third of infantry troops in a battle are reluctant, a third take to it with gusto and without qualms, and a third will follow, if given a good example by the latter.

The proportion among women must surely be considerably less, though there will surely be some genuine Rambo types among them.

There was a hilarious story reported in the UK press about the then Defence Minister, (Hoon, I think it was), speaking to an SAS unit about their needing to get used to the idea of accepting women in their ranks.

One of the lads put up his hand and protested : 'But, Sir, we're not PC (politically correct); we kill people....'

 

[The Gryphon]

The Russians certainly rate their female snipers more highly than their male counterparts. Why shouldn't they be ? I think they found them to be more adaptable. Not sure in what ways they were found to be more adaptable, although it seems to me that women do tend to be more sensible and calculating.

If you research the history of Russian Female snipers you might get some answers.

 

[The Gryphon]

It seems to me that if you believe you have any right to even be in Syria, you are very wide of the mark, indeed. And make no mistake, it is not the Russkis or the Muslims who have been using chorine, mustard gas and phosphorous but the Americans. Have you forgotten Agent Orange in Vietnam ? And the so-called 'depleted uranium' shells that, in due course, kill your troops that handle them ? And you reckon your country's moral standards are higher than the Iranians ? The UK's for that matter. We're no better. Arguably worse : the senior demon teachng the junior one.

I mentioned nothing about have any rights to be anywhere and no I remember Agent Orange very well having a friend that suffers from its affects terribly. As to Americans using chemical agents in Syria such a charge requires evidence to back up such a claim while the Muslims offer their own videos of them beheading, shooting women, murdering and torturing unarmed civilians to death while cheering; all over YouTube for everyone to see. So, I know as a group our troops have higher moral standards. There are rotten apple that have to be caught, tried and imprisoned for crimes when committed however Muslim Radicals REVAL in their crimes against humanity. There is a world of difference there. Muslim Fundamentalists do not respect human life and video their own atrocities.

 

[paul becke]

If you research the history of Russian Female snipers you might get some answers.

I'm not interested in the details. It is enough to know that they are prized by the Russians - largely as a result of their record during WWII.

Have you researched the history of Russian snipers ? It sounds rather a 'niche' interest. I've found TV documentaries on snipers of both sexes generally fascinating. Have you read any histories of WWII by the American historian, Rick Atkinson ? He has written a wonderfully researched trilogy, packed with information and recounted as it was seen by service people of all ranks, as well as civilians.

 

[paul becke]

I mentioned nothing about have any rights to be anywhere and no I remember Agent Orange very well having a friend that suffers from its affects terribly. As to Americans using chemical agents in Syria such a charge requires evidence to back up such a claim while the Muslims offer their own videos of them beheading, shooting women, murdering and torturing unarmed civilians to death while cheering; all over YouTube for everyone to see. So, I know as a group our troops have higher moral standards. There are rotten apple that have to be caught, tried and imprisoned for crimes when committed however Muslim Radicals REVAL in their crimes against humanity. There is a world of difference there. Muslim Fundamentalists do not respect human life and video their own atrocities.

No. The evidence is plentiful. Just follow VeteransToday.com. Yes, I know how vile the Daesh or ISIL are. But, alas, they were trained, set up and continue to be armed and generally supplied by the US, even as they are fighting them !

Moreover, when Daesh are being thrashed, US helicopters come in and save their commanders, apparently sending them to Afghanistan. And don't imagine your lot didn't torture the Viet Cong. Likewise in WWII, some of our side were prone to commit atrocities. Fortunately, the Russian Speznast special forces seem to be bumping off a lot of those Daesh/ISIL field commanders in Syria, though I suspect some of them might be victims of the locals, civilian residents.

Here is the lowdown on Vietnam by a former 'grunt', and now an accredited Ambassador of the US, a military-intelligence expert, as well as Senior Editor of veteranstoday.com :

NEO - Vietnam: Decades of Liars Blacken the Names of Real Heroes - Veterans Today | News - Military Foreign Affairs Policy

Not a pretty picture. In fact almost unbelievable.

Incidentally, an Aussie mate of mine died last year from Agent Orange, too ; a degenerative motor-neurone disease, I believe.

We have no right to even be there. It's naked imperialism. Our leaders are not idealists endeavouring to spread decency and. democracy. they want regime change in favour of a puppet, so they can continue to pillage their oil, etc. The Allies/Axis have a long record of such unscrupulous imperialism.

Whatever else you do, be sure to read onlnce he brief tract by former US marine general, Smedley-Butler, entitled : 'War is a Racket'. It opened my eyes all too belatedly.

 

[The Gryphon]

I'm not interested in the details. It is enough to know that they are prized by the Russians - largely as a result of their record during WWII.

Have you researched the history of Russian snipers ? It sounds rather a 'niche' interest. I've found TV documentaries on snipers of both sexes generally fascinating. Have you read any histories of WWII by the American historian, Rick Atkinson ? He has written a wonderfully researched trilogy, packed with information and recounted as it was seen by service people of all ranks, as well as civilians.

Actually, I have and have quoted those statistics a number of times on other websites. My reason is while I was a member of the only US Army Airborne Infantry National Guard Unit I carried an M21 rifle and was the best shot in my Company. I have a number of US Army Sniper Training manuals as well as long-range shooting material.

 

[The Gryphon]

Ther aren't many men who are infantry material. It is reckoned that a third of infantry troops in a battle are reluctant, a third take to it with gusto and without qualms, and a third will follow, if given a good example by the latter.

The proportion among women must surely be considerably less, though there will surely be some genuine Rambo types among them.

There was a hilarious story reported in the UK press about the then Defence Minister, (Hoon, I think it was), speaking to an SAS unit about their needing to get used to the idea of accepting women in their ranks.

One of the lads put up his hand and protested : 'But, Sir, we're not PC (politically correct); we kill people....'

Exceptional claims require exceptional evidence.

You said: No. The evidence is plentiful. Just follow VeteransToday.com. Yes, I know how vile the Daesh or ISIL are. But, alas, they were trained, set up and continue to be armed and generally supplied by the US, even as they are fighting them !

Do you care to share with the rest of us where you came by documentable, provable as well verifiable evidence to back up what you have offered? Or is it all just the musings of liberal journalists filling copy without any attributable sources that can be checked and verified? Yes, those details can be sticky wickets when it comes to telling truth from fiction.

I know a lot about degenerative motor-neurological disease as I also have one. It is not a question of if I am in pain but of the amount of pain I am in daily.

I am NO FAN of war and especially of the politicians with little if any understanding of how to wag one nor are they keen to listen to those who are versed in what is needed. Politics kills more soldiers than enemy bullets, bombs, and disease combined!

I have witnessed firsthand both the best American soldiers as men of honor, courage, and moral rightness and the most immoral, greedy, self-serving, morally corrupt from the rank of enlisted up to the rank of Full Bird Colonel. Unfortunately those who are supposed to weed out the rotten apples care more about public perception than rooting out the Corrupt Bad Apples and just pass them on to be other peoples problems rather than arresting them and prosecuting them. They don't want to ROCK the BOAT so they COVER-UP. That is why the Patrick Daniel Tillman case took so long before it came out because the order of the day was CWA (Cover Your A$$ets) over the TRUTH!

If the American people had an actual idea of some of the things that have gone on during both Democratic and Republican administrations there might be some hangings and I don't mean in effigy. Yes, I know that would require evidence, me violating my security oath along with a lot of others doing the same which will not happen along with a LOT of ACCIDENTS over a short period of time. And "the beat goes on".

 

[paul becke]

'Do you care to share with the rest of us where you came by documentable, provable as well verifiable evidence to back up what you have offered? Or is it all just the musings of liberal journalists filling copy without any attributable sources that can be checked and verified? Yes, those details can be sticky wickets when it comes to telling truth from fiction.'

I had rather hoped you would be prepared to be enlightened by referring to the journal, veteranstoday.com, which really gives the lie to the nonsense peddled ultimately by the 'deep state', military industrial complex, Big Oil, etc., (which you appear to swallow 'hook, line and sinker'), always seeking cannon fodder for nefarious invasions of sovereign countries, to steal their raw materials and/or gain another foothold in foreign parts. Also, and just as importantly, War is a Racket by ex-marine general, Smedley Butler, and Mark Twain's War Prayer :

The War Prayer

Did you serve in a war ? If you didn't, it is all the more important for you to read veteranstoday.com.

The article below was written by a former marine who had served as an infantryman 'at the sharp end' in Vietnam. It's not a pretty story, I can tell you ; in fact, an absolute disgrace. No wonder he turned down a commission in disgust. I don't know if I mentioned it in this thread, but he is a highly esteemed intelligence expert, notably on the Middle-East, and an accredited diplomat.

I don't see what your prowess as a marksman has to do with this subject, but I came second in rifle-shooting of an intake of about 120, I believe. It was the only time we were ever trusted with live ammunition ! Apart from very occasional sorties to the shooting butts. More than once I was one of four guards with empty smgs guarding the perimeter of your nuclear-warhead compound against the Russians ! Although it was said that there weren't actually any warheads there - which would make more sense, I suppose, (at least in one way!).

Did you ever serve in a war ? The Commies called off the confrontation in Borneo, when they got wind I was on my way there. I'd just turned up at Woolwhich.

 

[The Gryphon]

'Do you care to share with the rest of us where you came by documentable, provable as well verifiable evidence to back up what you have offered? Or is it all just the musings of liberal journalists filling copy without any attributable sources that can be checked and verified? Yes, those details can be sticky wickets when it comes to telling truth from fiction.'

I had rather hoped you would be prepared to be enlightened by referring to the journal, veteranstoday.com, which really gives the lie to the nonsense peddled ultimately by the 'deep state', military industrial complex, Big Oil, etc., (which you appear to swallow 'hook, line and sinker'), always seeking cannon fodder for nefarious invasions of sovereign countries, to steal their raw materials and/or gain another foothold in foreign parts. Also, and just as importantly, War is a Racket by ex-marine general, Smedley Butler, and Mark Twain's War Prayer :

The War Prayer

Did you serve in a war ? If you didn't, it is all the more important for you to read veteranstoday.com.

The article below was written by a former marine who had served as an infantryman 'at the sharp end' in Vietnam. It's not a pretty story, I can tell you ; in fact, an absolute disgrace. No wonder he turned down a commission in disgust. I don't know if I mentioned it in this thread, but he is a highly esteemed intelligence expert, notably on the Middle-East, and an accredited diplomat.

I don't see what your prowess as a marksman has to do with this subject, but I came second in rifle-shooting of an intake of about 120, I believe. It was the only time we were ever trusted with live ammunition ! Apart from very occasional sorties to the shooting butts. More than once I was one of four guards with empty smgs guarding the perimeter of your nuclear-warhead compound against the Russians ! Although it was said that there weren't actually any warheads there - which would make more sense, I suppose, (at least in one way!).

Did you ever serve in a war ? The Commies called off the confrontation in Borneo, when they got wind I was on my way there. I'd just turned up at Woolwhich.

I don't find veteranstoday.com to be the end all repository of knowledge and justice in this world! I require PROOF of extraordinary accusations and claims! Remember those "weapons of mass destruction" in Iraq that many .coms and government organizations all swore existed. So I prefer to be "enlightened" by PROOF and not "'CLAIMS" from one source! I go by what I have researched. So you can take your insults of me and the USA and put them up where they belong. I served in the US Army from 1971-1973 during Vietnam as if it is any of YOUR business.

My guns were loaded and I have heard the sonic crack as bullets passed long before the report of their firing.

paul becke said:
'Do you care to share with the rest of us where you came by documentable, provable as well verifiable evidence to back up what you have offered?

I came by "documentable, provable as well verifiable evidence to back up what you have offered" as it is consider the three ways to support an argument! I am a voracious reader and I never stop learning.

 

[tampasteve]

MOD HAT ON

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