How do you cope with other Christians who think differently

[Juan777]

We are in a very unique denominations where very well meaning Christians could be speaking words of death either directly, or in their prayers or believe that their God actually wants people sick and poor and think that glorifies Him?

I had a discussion with a Christian (think he was Baptist) on another thread, I won't name names, and I can't understand, for the life of me, how we could get into such a contrary argument about tongues. It had me thinking, do you also find yourself at odds with other Christians who don't believe this and instead attack you for subscribing to a "prosperity theology" that they think is anti-thetical to Christianity?

My question is how do you cope with this? It looks like other Christians who don't understand our point of view has a tendency for things to get ugly very fast with "fake Christian" labels being thrown around.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

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[Juan777]

Yes 3 decades ago, I was in a Prosperity / Faith church, and if I would have continued to follow their preaching and advice I probably could have drove myself into some kind of nervous break down. I did a few threads on this sort of thing a few years back.


My beef with Word of Faith theology


Anti-intellectualism and hostility to Theology


As far as how I handle it goes? I think that some of this was instrumental and God ordained in helping me becoming what I am today. I believe God wants me teaching, doing videos, blogging etc. basically my own ministry.


I did pick up a few positive things from the WOF, that I did not get from my conservative Lutheran background I was raised in. I can occasionally sympathize with some of their points of view against some of the academic liberalism that can be seen in such movements as "The Jesus Seminar" and "Biblical Higher Criticism". But yeah in general. I think it is often a very unbalanced and problematic way of doing things for reasons that I mention in my previous thread links.


But ultimately, I think you basically have to part ways when you come to these kind of realizations. Kind of like the scripture Amos 3:3

Have you got into any fights or been bad-mouthed by any other Christians that were critical of word-of-faith doctrine? They seem to have a caricature of word-of-faith theology as wanting a mansion and four or five different cars and I'm not sure about you, but I find the whole thing very offensive and ignorant. Even other prominent teachers like Andrew Wommack has faced more than his share of criticism and attacks concerning his ministry.

Part of the issue is many people see this things as not working out for everyone, and wonder "why didn't this work for me? or why did God leave me out but bless so and so?" and this leads to deeper levels of strife or conflict.

I skimmed both threads and you wrote one sentence that stood out. If I may paraphrase, it's your view that word of faith treats faith like a journey of discovery. Unlike Pentecostals where fire is supposed to fall from heaven and you are supposed to speak in tongues and have that gift. Word of faith takes a mild approach. Just speak any random words, do it in faith, and the Holy Spirit will take care of the rest. It's just extremely cool to the point of almost fantasy the way they are treating heavy and controversial biblical concepts... a term you phrase as overly simplistic. Yet, I sort of like it because it is like Christianity meets Mary Poppins without the musical and makes you feel nice and optimistic. The fault is with you and the devil, not with God. He is always the "good guy". Anything bad is from the devil, God may change it for good, but He is never the author of evil Himself. Yet, I think other believers have a different view of God where the only guarantees are in the next life.

 

[Trusting in Him]

Isn't the word of faith movement, the people who started the "name it and claim it" thing? The bible does not say that God will supply all that you want, but God will supply all that you need. If you don't need it God is not bound to have to give it to you! I am not a member of a penticostal church, but I do believe in the gift of tongues, some churches believe in tongues and some don't. I see little point in attacking other people about it.

However I definitely do not agree with the prosperiy gospel.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

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[Juan777]

Isn't the word of faith movement, the people who started the "name it and claim it" thing? The bible does not say that God will supply all that you want, but God will supply all that you need. If you don't need it God is not bound to have to give it to you! I am not a member of a penticostal church, but I do believe in the gift of tongues, some churches believe in tongues and some don't. I see little point in attacking other people about it.

However I definitely do not agree with the prosperiy gospel.

I assure you that 99% of what I'm probably dealing with are needs.

Getting out of debt, for example, is a need, not a want because the Bible says to owe no man anything, and believers are to be the head and not the tail, lenders and not borrowers, etc.... you can see a clear biblical precedent. Paying off your mortgage is therefore a need because you are in debt to the bank for your house. Incidentally you need hundreds of thousands of dollars to do that! Does that sound rich?

I can mention other things. Just because it's a need doesn't mean its cheap.

 

[Trusting in Him]

I've been there too! I had a business which failed as I owed the bank a lot of money. In my case it took a long time, but God got me out of debt. Trust him and you'll be surprise how He will help you!

 

[eleos1954]

We are in a very unique denominations where very well meaning Christians could be speaking words of death either directly, or in their prayers or believe that their God actually wants people sick and poor and think that glorifies Him?

I had a discussion with a Christian (think he was Baptist) on another thread, I won't name names, and I can't understand, for the life of me, how we could get into such a contrary argument about tongues. It had me thinking, do you also find yourself at odds with other Christians who don't believe this and instead attack you for subscribing to a "prosperity theology" that they think is anti-thetical to Christianity?

My question is how do you cope with this? It looks like other Christians who don't understand our point of view has a tendency for things to get ugly very fast with "fake Christian" labels being thrown around.

no reason for anybody to get angry about different beliefs ... but yeah we are called to study and talk about scripture ... if it starts to get "ugly" then just agree to disagree and move on ..... we are all searching for the truth ... and the truth will set us free.

Refer to scripture as much as possible and dismiss and/ignore emotional responses. Guard against becoming emotional yourself.

We are all in different places in our search for truth.

We are called to peace. Agree to disagree and pray.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

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[SavedByGrace3]

Just a reminder about forum rules.
" Even members may not teach against the beliefs of WOF, nor debate/teach against the leaders/teachers of this group. Statements from outside of WOF may not be quoted from other denominations, as they are not WOF.

If you wish to debate teaching/leaders, then you need to go to the appropriate forum where you may do so, or open a formal debate with someone who you wish to debate a specific issue.

Members or visitors who teach against or debate against WOF beliefs or leaders will be actioned, and repated issues may result in a ban from this forum."

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

We are in a very unique denominations where very well meaning Christians could be speaking words of death either directly, or in their prayers or believe that their God actually wants people sick and poor and think that glorifies Him?

I had a discussion with a Christian (think he was Baptist) on another thread, I won't name names, and I can't understand, for the life of me, how we could get into such a contrary argument about tongues. It had me thinking, do you also find yourself at odds with other Christians who don't believe this and instead attack you for subscribing to a "prosperity theology" that they think is anti-thetical to Christianity?

My question is how do you cope with this? It looks like other Christians who don't understand our point of view has a tendency for things to get ugly very fast with "fake Christian" labels being thrown around.

Here is what Paul wrote:
"This saying is trustworthy. And I want you to emphasize these things, so that those who have believed God will take care to devote themselves to good deeds. These things are excellent and profitable for the people. But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, arguments, and quarrels about the law, because these things are pointless and worthless. Reject a divisive man after a first and second admonition" (Titus 3:8-10).

Paul kept away from pointless debates by concentrating on Christ and Him crucified. We have seen good threads hijacked and ruined by members who have ignored this instruction to Titus.

 

[Juan777]

no reason for anybody to get angry about different beliefs ... but yeah we are called to study and talk about scripture ... if it starts to get "ugly" then just agree to disagree and move on ..... we are all searching for the truth ... and the truth will set us free.

Refer to scripture as much as possible and dismiss and/ignore emotional responses. Guard against becoming emotional yourself.

We are all in different places in our search for truth.

We are called to peace. Agree to disagree and pray.

When you can't agree to disagree, which is precisely how things get ugly. If you can still agree to disagree, then it's not ugly yet. It may be animated or charged, but not ugly.

 

[Juan777]

Just a reminder about forum rules.
" Even members may not teach against the beliefs of WOF, nor debate/teach against the leaders/teachers of this group. Statements from outside of WOF may not be quoted from other denominations, as they are not WOF.

If you wish to debate teaching/leaders, then you need to go to the appropriate forum where you may do so, or open a formal debate with someone who you wish to debate a specific issue.

Members or visitors who teach against or debate against WOF beliefs or leaders will be actioned, and repated issues may result in a ban from this forum."

Its a good thing that there is a safe space to deal with word of faith issues inside the board. Due to the sensitive nature of this type of belief, its easy to be under the scrutiny and scorn who do not understand it or feel it is Biblical, and for me to feel offended or undermined in reaction to that. There is usually no middle-ground when this happen and it can be very divisive. Thanks for pointing this out.

 

[eleos1954]

When you can't agree to disagree, which is precisely how things get ugly. If you can still agree to disagree, then it's not ugly yet. It may be animated or charged, but not ugly.

Basically it's a "time out" with the conversation.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Its a good thing that there is a safe space to deal with word of faith issues inside the board. Due to the sensitive nature of this type of belief, its easy to be under the scrutiny and scorn who do not understand it or feel it is Biblical, and for me to feel offended or undermined in reaction to that. There is usually no middle-ground when this happen and it can be very divisive. Thanks for pointing this out.

Thanks. I just would not like to see anyone get dinged.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

We are in a very unique denominations where very well meaning Christians could be speaking words of death either directly, or in their prayers or believe that their God actually wants people sick and poor and think that glorifies Him?

I had a discussion with a Christian (think he was Baptist) on another thread, I won't name names, and I can't understand, for the life of me, how we could get into such a contrary argument about tongues. It had me thinking, do you also find yourself at odds with other Christians who don't believe this and instead attack you for subscribing to a "prosperity theology" that they think is anti-thetical to Christianity?

My question is how do you cope with this? It looks like other Christians who don't understand our point of view has a tendency for things to get ugly very fast with "fake Christian" labels being thrown around.

This has been an issue for all the years I have been WoF. I started with WoF before it was called WoF. Back in 1973, it was called "the faith movement." Of course, the restoration of the Gifts of the Spirit did not start with WoF. Rather, the restoration started in the late 1800s and, more so, in the early 1900s up through the healing revival in the mid-1900s. The emergence of the power of the early church did not sit well with established religion and theology. Instead of being open to the Spirit and moving into the stream, they resisted and that resistance turned into the cessationism movement and eventually anti-faith. I came into the Spirit under Katherine Kulman, T.L Osborn, and finally Kenneth Hagin. Wonderful teachers and preachers who have all passed, but their work lives on!
If you want a GREAT book on healing and faith, get T.L. Osborn's "Healing The Sick." The book opened my eyes to both faith and healing!
NOTE - this link will download a PDF directly to your download folder!!!!
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjCzPmCs-_5AhUZlIkEHVz4As4QFnoECAwQAQ&url=https://christiandiet.com.ng/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Healing-The-Sick-T.-L.-Osborn-Christiandiet.com_.ng_.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0-nzuRqJf_Qr83lDg7Hq96

 

[Belinda Cooper]

I have a hard time with it honestly. There are some issues that I just can't be okay with. Like saying LGBT or abortion are not sins, but the biggest is not believing The Holy Spirit.

I am very strong in my belief and convictions.

 

[RDKirk]

Here is what Paul wrote:
"This saying is trustworthy. And I want you to emphasize these things, so that those who have believed God will take care to devote themselves to good deeds. These things are excellent and profitable for the people. But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, arguments, and quarrels about the law, because these things are pointless and worthless. Reject a divisive man after a first and second admonition" (Titus 3:8-10).

Paul kept away from pointless debates by concentrating on Christ and Him crucified. We have seen good threads hijacked and ruined by members who have ignored this instruction to Titus.

That and Romans 14. Romans 14:1 points out that there are disputable issues within the Church...that should not result in division.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That and Romans 14. Romans 14:1 points out that there are disputable issues within the Church...that should not result in division.

True. Those make the forum more interesting.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

Yep. Happens all the time. I'm a leader in the largest Christian server on Discord. I also used to upload Christian content on TikTok. It all has to do with attitude. I can get along with everyone of every doctrine as long as it is not a salvation effecting doctrine. For instance, predestination vs. free will...not a salvation issue, doesn't matter really. Cessation vs. Continuation...not a salvation issue, doesn't matter. Believing for prosperity vs. being satisfied with what the Lord has given you...not a salvation issue, doesn't matter.

All of these, I will be happy to discuss and talk about. I will be happy to listen as one explains their belief and go over the parts of the Bible that they use to support their belief and also go over the parts of the Bible that show why they may be wrong and even go over the cultural context (hermeneutics) of the day which can also affect the meaning and context of the verses. It will always be done from the point of love and grace. If it's not a belief that can affect one's salvation, it should not cause division in the church.

It is when these types get insulting that I end up walking away from the conversation, letting them think they got some sort of victory and pray for them. I'll let things cool down and approach them later, if the opportunity arises, for fellowship and to let them know that I'm not mad and everything is ok. However, I always tend to start these conversations with the reminder that what we're talking about, ultimately, doesn't really matter as it does not affect salvation, just to try to get them to understand that if we disagree, it's fine and we shouldn't get mad at one another. I'm not there to prove them wrong; I'm just here to satiate their curiosity and show them why I believe what I do about a doctrine, what the pieces of evidence are, and go from there.

However, if we're talking about things like the word of God is wrong, sin is ok because of grace, you can support sin while not actively partaking and still be ok in the eyes of God, and a wafer in an ornate container and a cup of wine is Jesus so you should bow down and worship it. I'll get as full of righteous anger as Santa got at Arius (or one of his followers) at the Council of Nicea and slap you. That person is no brother or sister in Christ to me and needs to repent and stop spreading their lies and dragging other people to hell with them.