How do we know that the Bible is the "True" Word of God?

trophy33

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Scripture itself claims to be God's breathed word and that it holds power to change hearts.
2 Timothy 3:16-17

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.


People have been saved by reading scripture alone.
Now either it is all true or none of it is since God wouldn't put his name on half truths.

Then there is the matter of Jesus himself, either he is God or he isn't. Other religions often say that Jesus was just a great teacher, but Jesus never claimed that, he claimed in a variety of ways that he actually was God come in the flesh.

When Jesus said, “I and the Father are one.” The Jews who heard Him took up stones and said that he was blaspheming and that “You, a mere man, claim to be God”
There were other occasions like when he said “Very truly I tell you, . . . before Abraham was born, I am!” Only God called himself the "I am" as a title.
Exodus 3:14

14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’ ”


Every word from it is the word of God, that is what scripture itself claims.
The same way it proclaims that Jesus is God come in the flesh.
We don't pray to scripture, we pray to God.

There is no person called "Scripture". And only persons can make claims.
The apostle Paul claims it to be God-breathed.

What does it practically mean differs between various theologies and between individual Christians.
 
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coffee4u

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There is no person called "Scripture". And only persons can make claims.

The apostle Paul claims it to be God-breathed.

No one said that there was a person called 'scripture'

If you dislike me saying 'scripture itself claims' then I guess I can say

"The person God had write the scripture wrote down what God wanted him to write down"
Does that long winded sentence make you happier?
 
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trophy33

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No one said that there was a person called 'scripture'
You said "Scripture itself claims..." like if your today's printed English Bible was one person, talking about himself and making statements about him as a whole, from the first English word to the last English word.
 
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trophy33

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And I again added to it.
I do not feel its sane to read a long post after the first and therefore the main argument of the post is built on sand.

Do you sit waiting for people to post?
Not sure what you mean, I am here after several months and right now I am by my PC. So what is your point.
 
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trophy33

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Just that I can't even do a quick edit without you already having made another post.
The same applies to me, I could not even fix my English grammar errors before you quoted me. But I do not complain. We are not masters of other people actions and timing. Is it not beautiful?
 
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ldonjohn

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I don't mind @cvanwey's skeptical views. I encourage the questioning of your faith and other's faith. I would never believe (or have faith) in something I don't question.

If your faith has a backbone, you shouldn't be so worked up about someone questioning your views.

Hi Jaedan,
I don't see cvanwey as questioning my faith. My faith is not in my feelings, my emotions, or experiences. The "backbone" of my faith is the Word of God, and I do not question that. I don't always understand everything I read in scriptures, but I don't fret over my lack of understanding. One of the ways the Holy Spirit works in the life of a believer is to help us find the truths found in scriptures.
Before I became a "believer" I was a hard case skeptic, but over a period of many years the Holy Spirit used family & some sermons I had heard in church to draw me to seek out the truth about God & the Bible. Someone said in a previous post that some people become believers by reading the bible, and that is the way the Holy Spirit worked in my life.
My view of cvanwey is someone who is not looking for the truth, but instead is looking for an endless debate.

Regards,

John
 
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TedT

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I don't know if this is rude to say but, wouldn't a Muslim in a Middle Eastern country say the same exact thing about their God (or spirit)?
Yes...so what? We all meet and greet the ones we love. I do not think we are here on earth to 'find' GOD but to be returned to HIM by HIS grace to come out from among the nations and their idols.
 
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coffee4u

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The same applies to me, I could not even fix my English grammar errors before you quoted me. But I do not complain. We are not masters of other people actions and timing. Is it not beautiful?

I wasn't really complaining about it, it was kind of funny.
 
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coffee4u

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Every word of which Bible, exactly?

The Hebrew and Greek. But that doesn't mean that an English translation is also not God's word. For sure the English will lack certain things in some sentences but overall it is still God's way of changing the heart. I know this, I came to faith through reading the Bible.
 
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trophy33

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The Hebrew and Greek.
Which Hebrew and Greek texts are God's words in every word?

But that doesn't mean that an English translation is also not God's word. For sure the English will lack certain things in some sentences but overall it is still God's way of changing the heart. I know this, I came to faith through reading the Bible.
There is no causality between coming to faith through reading the Bible and a necessity for every word in a 1000 pages book to be directly inspired by God.

God can use any way to change hearts. Preachings, youtube videos, online articles, other people, Bible, songs, life events, hard times...
 
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coffee4u

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Which Hebrew and Greek texts are God's words in every word?


There is no causality between coming to faith through reading the Bible and a necessity for every word in a 1000 pages book to be directly inspired by God.

God can use any way to change hearts. Preachings, youtube videos, online articles, other people, Bible, songs, life events, hard times...

No one is saying God can't use your hard times or anything else to change hearts, but without a solid knowledge of scripture a person will be open to deception.
15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness comes from the scriptures.
Unless a person knows the scripture they wont be able to spot false teaching. If wrong teaching was not a real worry we would not be warned about it.

Acts 20:29
I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.

How else do you detect a wolf (apart from direction by the Holy Spirit) if you do not know scripture.

Matthew 24:24
24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

2 Timothy 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

This isn't a maybe, it has and is happening and will continue to happen.
Now we have the likes of Kennith Copland going around saying we are 'little gods'.

We need the whole armour Ephesians 6:10-18
14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
And that includes God's word.
 
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trophy33

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No one is saying God can't use your hard times or anything else to change hearts, but without a solid knowledge of scripture a person will be open to deception.
15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness comes from the scriptures.
Unless a person knows the scripture they wont be able to spot false teaching. If wrong teaching was not a real worry we would not be warned about it.

Acts 20:29
I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.

How else do you detect a wolf (apart from direction by the Holy Spirit) if you do not know scripture.

Matthew 24:24
24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

2 Timothy 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

This isn't a maybe, it has and is happening and will continue to happen.
Now we have the likes of Kennith Copland going around saying we are 'little gods'.

We need the whole armour Ephesians 6:10-18
14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
And that includes God's word.

Knowledge of the Bible is surely useful for teaching, rebuking and training in righteousness.

But there is still no connection to a specific doctrine about inspiration. Or even a definition what is "all scripture".
 
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coffee4u

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Knowledge of the Bible is surely useful for teaching, rebuking and training in righteousness.

But there is still no connection to a specific doctrine about inspiration. Or even a definition what is "all scripture".

If you don't trust and use scripture as the highest guide then you would be open to anything. This is how cults like the JW's began because someone claims to be a prophet with a new revelation from God.
We only know that Jesus is God because the scriptures teach us that. If you know this then you won't be swayed by someone like a JW who appears to make a persuasive argument that he isn't. You can hold fast to it. Without that scripture as the backbone you might believe anything and anyone that sounded good to you.

I do not believe God would have allowed us to be taught and trained for hundreds of years with an unworthy book. I came to faith through reading a Bible and I will continue to believe it is scripture. Whether that is a King James or New kings James supplemented with the NIV and then the Hebrew and Greek as needed when things are not clear. We have to have translations and the older ones were done with care.
 
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trophy33

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We only know that Jesus is God because the scriptures teach us that.
In fact, it went this way:
1. The apostles of Jesus realized that Jesus is God and began to teach this other people. New churches were established throughout the whole Roman Empire. Teachers and prophets were travelling between them and teaching these things.

2. Then, some local people were established by the apostles to have local authority, like bishops.

3. Then, the apostles wrote some letters to these bishops or elders, because they were far away.

4. Then, some of these letters were collected by the church and put together.

So, no, the source of information about Jesus is not the Bible, Bible only preserves this information.

Without a Bible, you could get the knowledge of His deity from Christian Creeds, christian books, Christians in the church, from internet etc. Whereever it is preserved.

The Bible is already conservated in content and form and goes back to apostles or the first church, thats why it should have the highest authority. But its obvious it was not dictated by God word for word.
 
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