How do we know that the Bible is the "True" Word of God?

Akita Suggagaki

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2018
6,714
4,885
69
Midwest
✟278,829.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The fact is the bible and it's story spans human history. Each generation had the same revelation from God, said God was the same.
That is debatable. The God of the Torah seems more legal than the God of Jesus. Isn't that part of the reason he was put to death by the Jews and Romans? and the last book of the New testament was written in the 1st century if not the 2nd. A very different world than we deal with today.
 
Upvote 0

disciple Clint

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2018
15,258
5,990
Pacific Northwest
✟200,679.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
That is debatable. The God of the Torah seems more legal than the God of Jesus. Isn't that part of the reason he was put to death by the Jews and Romans? and the last book of the New testament was written in the 1st century if not the 2nd. A very different world than we deal with today.
The God of the Torah seems more legal than the God of Jesus
This is understandable because God had to take a slave mentality and built a nation, He had to develop the people and guide them with a firm hand until they gained the understanding and ability to accept a kinder and gentler God. Same God using appropriate techniques for the times and people.
 
Upvote 0

jayem

Naturalist
Jun 24, 2003
15,262
6,943
72
St. Louis, MO.
✟371,163.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Josephus and other historians wrote about Him.

The Josephus account is one paragraph. Written about 60 years after Jesus died.. Josephus writes about Jesus's teaching and influence among the Jews and says that he had many followers. Then, the text mentions Jesus performing miracles and returning to life after being crucified by Pilate. The clear consensus of Biblical scholars is that these last details are inauthentic and were later additions by Christians.

Tacitus mentions Jesus's crucifixion in his Annals. Which date from about 116 AD. But there's no mention of a resurrection. His primary focus is on the persecution of the Roman Christians by Nero. There are several other writers who discuss the Christian sect, but Josephus and Tacitus are about the only ones who specifically mention Jesus in any detail. And their accounts were written decades after the fact. There are no known contemporaneous accounts of Jesus during his lifetime. I've wondered why there is nothing about Jesus in the works of Pliny the Elder. He would have been about 18 when Jesus was alive. Pliny traveled widely through the Roman empire. He was one of the most credulous people ever. Whatever he heard, he believed. And he wrote about it. He was first encyclopedist, who wrote volumes about the natural world, including odd and unusual people, animals, places, and events. Much of which is incorrect. (Pliny is credited as the first to write that ostriches bury their heads in the sand.) Even in a remote, backwater of the Roman Empire like Judea, news would have gotten out if a man walked on water, turned water into wine, multiplied 5 loaves and 2 fish to feed 5000 people, raised several deceased persons from the dead, and reappeared alive himself after being executed by crucifixion. This is the kind of stuff Pliny lived for. It strains my credulity to think he wouldn't have heard, and written about it.
 
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
14,667
9,977
78
Auckland
✟376,544.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The clear consensus of Biblical scholars is that these last details are inauthentic and were later additions by Christians.

Evidence for this please - you are claiming the majority of Christian scholars think early christians fraudulently tampered with Jusephus writings ??? Really ???
 
Upvote 0

jayem

Naturalist
Jun 24, 2003
15,262
6,943
72
St. Louis, MO.
✟371,163.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Evidence for this please - you are claiming the majority of Christian scholars think early christians fraudulently tampered with Jusephus writings ??? Really ???

The scholarly name for the Josephus passage is the Testimonium Flavianum. (His Roman name is Flavius Josephus.) As I said, not all of it is usually suspect. Mostly the part about miracles and the resurrection. Here’s the Wikipedia discussion as a start:

Josephus on Jesus - Wikipedia

An article with comments pro and con by Richard Carrier. Who is an atheist. But the man knows the Bible:

The Josephus Testimonium: Let's Just Admit It's Fake Already • Richard Carrier

And here’s an article that questions the entire passage based on linguistic analysis:

Josephus’s Testimonium Flavianum Examined Linguistically: Greek Analysis Demonstrates the Passage a Forgery In Toto

You can certainly find articles accepting that it’s authentic. But to my knowledge, the majority opinion is that the mention of the miracles and resurrection is a later addition, and was not written by Josephus.
 
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
14,667
9,977
78
Auckland
✟376,544.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The scholarly name for the Josephus passage is the Testimonium Flavianum. (His Roman name is Flavius Josephus.) As I said, not all of it is usually suspect. Mostly the part about miracles and the resurrection. Here’s the Wikipedia discussion as a start:

Josephus on Jesus - Wikipedia

An article with comments pro and con by Richard Carrier. Who is an atheist. But the man knows the Bible:

The Josephus Testimonium: Let's Just Admit It's Fake Already • Richard Carrier

And here’s an article that questions the entire passage based on linguistic analysis:

Josephus’s Testimonium Flavianum Examined Linguistically: Greek Analysis Demonstrates the Passage a Forgery In Toto

You can certainly find articles accepting that it’s authentic. But to my knowledge, the majority opinion is that the mention of the miracles and resurrection is a later addition, and was not written by Josephus.

This is hardly a clear consensus of biblical scholars...
 
Upvote 0

jayem

Naturalist
Jun 24, 2003
15,262
6,943
72
St. Louis, MO.
✟371,163.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
This is hardly a clear consensus of biblical scholars...

This is pasted from the Wiki article. That site is not the last word on everything. But it is correct on this point:

The first and most extensive reference to Jesus in the Antiquities, found in Book 18, states that Jesus was the Messiah and a wise teacher who was crucified by Pontius Pilate. It is commonly called the Testimonium Flavianum.[1][3][4]Almost all modern scholars reject the authenticity of this passage in its present form, while the majority of scholars nevertheless hold that it contains an authentic nucleus referencing the execution of Jesus by Pilate, which was then subject to Christian interpolation or alteration.[3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10]However, the exact nature and extent of the Christian redaction remains unclear.[11][12]
 
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
14,667
9,977
78
Auckland
✟376,544.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
This is pasted from the Wiki article. That site is not the last word on everything. But it is correct on this point:

The first and most extensive reference to Jesus in the Antiquities, found in Book 18, states that Jesus was the Messiah and a wise teacher who was crucified by Pontius Pilate. It is commonly called the Testimonium Flavianum.[1][3][4]Almost all modern scholars reject the authenticity of this passage in its present form, while the majority of scholars nevertheless hold that it contains an authentic nucleus referencing the execution of Jesus by Pilate, which was then subject to Christian interpolation or alteration.[3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10]However, the exact nature and extent of the Christian redaction remains unclear.[11][12]

Thanks for the clarification and your changing the term 'biblical scholars' to 'modern scholars'...
 
Upvote 0

ldonjohn

Active Member
Sep 20, 2013
348
178
✟81,177.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married

John 16:8 “And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.”

The Holy Spirit shows/teaches us the truth, and how we are to live our lives to be pleasing to God.

A real born-again Christian is a person who has been given a new nature by the life changing message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The new Christian still has the old sinful nature, and is not a perfect sinless creature, but the Holy Spirit gives the Christian the ability to live a life that is pleasing to God. The problem is that the old sinful nature battles with the new nature for control of the Christian's life. Each day the Christian chooses whether he/she will walk in the Spirit or walk in the flesh.

The Christian who is walking in the Spirit will study God's Word and allow the Spirit to do His work within which should result in the Christian living a life that is pleasing to God. The Spirit led Christian life should be different in many ways such as in the way he/she treats others, serving others, putting the needs of others before his/her own needs, loving others. The bible instructs husbands to love their wives in the same way Christ loved the church and gave His life for it. It instruct wives to love their husbands, children to obey parents, everyone to obey law/government & honor leaders so that they can lead a peaceful life. The bible teaches that there are many good deeds Christians can do for others, but if done without love it doesn't accomplish as much as it would have if done in love. Love is the main thing. The Holy Spirit uses God's Word to change the way Christians think, it conditions the Christian's mind to think about things in a way that is pleasing to God. Christians can & should be different from non-Christians, but unfortunately that is not the way things always work out.

Furthermore, you might have heard someone say that the Bible is a Living Book. I agree that it is because I can read a certain scripture today that I have read sometime in the past and the Holy Spirit will show me something that I did not see before. I have been reading the bible for over 40 years and I still do not understand all of it, but I continue to learn new truth each day. Another thing I have heard people say is that the bible contradicts itself, but with the help of the Holy Spirit I have learned that it actually explains itself.

Simple stated, the Christian who is walking in the Spirit can have a life of peace, assurance, and a life of serving others in love vs the Christian who is walking in his/her old sinful nature will probably be living a life of selfishness, worldliness, struggling with sin, and therefore will not be living a life that is pointing others to Christ.

There is much much more that could be said about the matter of living by the teaching of the Bible, God's Word. Unfortunately, many people take scripture out of context and use it to teach false doctrines, and there are differences in some translations that can complicate the matter of teaching the truth, plus, many people just don't read/study the bible but rely on a preacher/teacher to tell them what to believe, and therefore, miss out on the Holy Spirit helping with learning the truth.

I don't know it all myself, but I do know that the MAIN message of the bible from Genesis to Revelations is the Gospel. If you believe the message of the Gospel then you are on the right path to living a life that pleases God, and one that points unbelievers to that message. And, of course in the end you get to spend eternity with your Creator.

My advice to anyone who is truly searching for the truth about God and the Bible, would be to start with the scripture in Jeremiah 29:13, “And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.” Meaning that if you earnestly search after God you will find Him. Then read & study the Gospel of John and the Book of Romans looking to God to show you the truth that is found there. God will show you the truth if you are genuinely seeking that truth. If you read those scriptures not expecting to find anything there, then you probably won't find anything because God knows your motive and if you are not seeking Him as He requires in Jeremiah 29:13 then He might not give you the ability to see the truth that you need so that you can know Him. If you are truly seeking the truth about God, you might have to read those 2 bible books several times before God gives you the spiritual light to understand the truth. It's up to you; God is real and He is not hiding from anyone. Spiritual light is required to find Him, to know He is real and only He can give you the light that you need.

Regards,

John
 
Upvote 0

stevevw

inquisitive
Nov 4, 2013
12,567
945
Brisbane Qld Australia
✟243,726.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Hi,

Quick question. How do we know (you guys in particular) that the Bible is the true word of God? Likewise, How do you know that it is indeed the true word of God instead of other writings such as the Quran and etc?
I don't think we could ever know 100% without a faith in God. Otherwise where would faith come into it and that is the paradox of faith in that the true conviction comes not by evidence but by faith. It is when one has recieved grace and the holy spirit dwells within that there is a conviction of truth in Gods word not because everything that is written is backed historically but because it is Gods truth through Christ.

In saying that we can make some logical arguemnets about what is written. There are some good appologist who have given good arguemnets for Christ and what has been written about Him. Why the Bible is written in a way that if anyone wanted to make things up would not have done it the way it was written. How some of the authors wrote about the events close to after they happened. How the claims especially of Christ would seem like a madmans claim today and therefore either have some truth or are lies. How there are non-biblical and historical evdience for Christ, the disciples and events. But I suspect even for a non-believer this would not be enough.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

aiki

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2007
10,874
4,348
Winnipeg
✟236,528.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Hi,

Quick question. How do we know (you guys in particular) that the Bible is the true word of God? Likewise, How do you know that it is indeed the true word of God instead of other writings such as the Quran and etc?

Fulfilled prophecy.
Thematic unity.
Survivability.
Historicity/accuracy.
Explanatory power/correspondence to reality.
Impact on cultures and individuals.

No other book was written in 3 different languages, over approximately 1500 years, on three different continents, by some 40 or so authors from widely differing walks of life. It contains historical account, poetry, wisdom literature, prophecy, doctrinal exposition and apocalyptic writing and yet it all forms a powerful, cohesive whole. Incredible. The stamp of the divine is on the Bible like no other book.
 
Upvote 0

dóxatotheó

Orthodox Church Familia
May 12, 2021
991
318
19
South Carolina
✟17,803.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Hi,

Quick question. How do we know (you guys in particular) that the Bible is the true word of God? Likewise, How do you know that it is indeed the true word of God instead of other writings such as the Quran and etc?
The Bible Is Unique and Unified
The Bible is unique among all the books in the world, and its message is unified throughout all 66 books. It was written by over 40 different writers, including shepherds, kings, priests, scholars, fishermen, and prophets, over a span of 1,500 years. However, the Bible remains unified in its message even though it displays a wide variety of genres and its authors wrote for a variety of purposes and exhibited a broad range of emotions.
The Bible Has Been Faithfully Passed Down
A common objection to the accuracy of the Bible is, “Isn’t the Bible just a copy of a copy?” The scribes who copied Scripture took great care in their work. Accuracy was ensured by a number of safeguards, including the counting of letters in a line and on a page. Minor variations exist between certain manuscripts, but thanks to the abundance of early texts and fragments, we can ascertain the original wording in nearly every case.
Archaeological proof aligning to the bible stories as well as the testimonies accounting the bible like Paul he stated Jesus resurrected and the proof ranges to the empty tomb which is still to this day have a good explanation for other books are not historically binding the quran has errors such as chainmail and the argument that someone took the spot for Jesus which isnt provable
 
Upvote 0

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟75,214.00
Country
Switzerland
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Hi,

Quick question. How do we know (you guys in particular) that the Bible is the true word of God? Likewise, How do you know that it is indeed the true word of God instead of other writings such as the Quran and etc?
The Bible is the Word of God because what it says matches real life. It is true. Have you read the Quran? There are commands in it that will make your hair stand on end they are so wrong.
 
Upvote 0

Coolbair

Member
Jul 12, 2021
14
10
47
Lehi
✟7,954.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
I think you are taking it from the wrong end.

First, you must know Christ and be born again. After that, it naturally follows, that the Bible is about Him so you will prefer it before Quoran.
But you must "meet" Christ first and have a new heart.

Without trusting the Lord Jesus, its practically impossible to make a case for the Bible, other than "its quite well preserved", which is not enough.

Thanks for your post! I really resonated with this. I agree that the bible is big and complicated and ancient, and it's very hard to know if it's true on its face, even when taking in all the interesting history surrounding the book and all the good fruits that have come from it. But how can one come to know Christ without at least a little bit of faith in Him and how can we have even a little faith in Him if we know nothing about Him? I'm really glad you put an emphasis on a real relationship with Christ. That is the priority for sure.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: Halbhh
Upvote 0

Coolbair

Member
Jul 12, 2021
14
10
47
Lehi
✟7,954.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
That's a complicated answer. I'd suggest checking it out on YouTube where some apologists go through all the scholarly and historic criteria the Bible meets. No other work comes close to it.
Is it really that complicated? Isn't it by the witness of the Holy Ghost that a person can know?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Ceallaigh

Veritas Vos Liberabit
Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
18,748
9,860
The Keep
✟571,281.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Is it really that complicated? Isn't it by the witness of the Holy Ghost that a person can know?

Spiritually yes. I was referring to empirical evidence. God doesn't seem to mind asking for empirical evidence, considering He provided it to convince Moses and Gideon etc. The empirical evidence for the Bible is multi tiered.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Coolbair
Upvote 0

Coolbair

Member
Jul 12, 2021
14
10
47
Lehi
✟7,954.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Hi,
Quick question. How do we know (you guys in particular) that the Bible is the true word of God? Likewise, How do you know that it is indeed the true word of God instead of other writings such as the Quran and etc?

I've seen many kinds of answers posted here to your question: because the theology is more compassionate, because the doctrines are better than the others, because it stands the test of time, because it has garnered a large population against great odds, because it has withstood a certain degree of scholarly scrutiny, etc. I believe God himself can guide us and give us a direct witness when something is true, especially if it's true about Him. My answer to you is that the Holy Ghost will give a witness, in due time, when a person humbles themselves and is willing to change by giving up their bad habits, and comes to Him in sincere prayer. The spirit is beautiful, wonderful, and moves us to become much better people than we otherwise would. It's a feeling of love that surpasses all other emotions, thoughts, or feelings. It's unique and quite indescribable, and the Lord gives this witness to those who genuinely seek Him, to know Him.
 
Upvote 0

Coolbair

Member
Jul 12, 2021
14
10
47
Lehi
✟7,954.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Spiritually yes. I was referring to empirical evidence. God doesn't seem to mind asking for empirical evidence, considering He provided it to convince Moses and Gideon etc. The empirical evidence for the Bible is multi tiered.
Well said! We need something to base our faith off after all right? Otherwise it would be truly blind faith.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Halbhh
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,339
26,779
Pacific Northwest
✟728,043.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Is it really that complicated? Isn't it by the witness of the Holy Ghost that a person can know?

That only expands the question: How does one know that it's the Holy Ghost?

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Gregory Thompson

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.
Supporter
Dec 20, 2009
28,362
7,742
Canada
✟721,286.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
That only expands the question: How does one know that it's the Holy Ghost?

-CryptoLutheran
Good question, the fruit of the spirit is ...Galatians 5:22-23

So odds are that spirit that makes you feel relaxed on sunday but then irritable afterwards if asked to do anything is probably a different spirit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Coolbair
Upvote 0