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How do we know if we were given to Jesus by the father? (John 6:37-40)

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Neostarwcc, Feb 26, 2018.

  1. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    In John 6:37-40 Jesus explains what the will of the Father is. He explains that all who the Father gives to him will come to him and those who the Father give to Jesus are saved and eternally secure it is done. But how do people know if they were given to Jesus by the Father? Just who are the unsaved people in Matthew 7:21-23? Are they people who never came to Jesus for salvation and instead trusted in their own works to save them? Their ability to keep the law? Jesus partially answers my question in John 6:37 when he says all that the Father gives me will come to me. So this means that everyone who comes to Jesus for salvation will be saved? What about those who come to Jesus for salvation and later reject Jesus?

    I don't believe a person can be unborn again so were they just never born again to begin with? But that can't be true because its one of the promises of God that those who ask for salvation will become born again and will receive salvation. Those who have faith in Christ are given the holy spirit to reside in them FOREVER! That is a promise of God! So those who later reject Christ must still be saved from hell. What about people who come to Jesus for salvation and then later say "Well my sins are paid for that means I can live however I want and do whatever I want." Paul put it this way: "shall we go live in sin now that we know that our sins are paid for and we are not held accountable for them? By no means!" but these kinds of people do exist. Are they saved? What if a person has no works are they still saved and eternally secure? James says in James 2 that faith without works is dead. But Paul said that we are not saved by our works. He also said in Romans 4:5

    "However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness."

    So that must mean that people who have no works are still saved. They won't have any or hardly any rewards in heaven but they're still saved. They might not make it to the kingdom of heaven but they are still saved. Is that the answer to my question? Everyone who comes to Jesus for salvation will be saved and are eternally secure but some will lose heavenly rewards? One of those rewards being the kingdom of heaven? After all Moses was denied entry into the promised land for sin so it could be the same thing with the kingdom of heaven. I don't know. I'm just really confused on just what exactly Jesus meant in John 6:37-40.
     
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  2. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    It's simple but not necessarily easy, how do we know? The Holy Spirit has to tell us:

    The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. (Rom. 8:11)
    Then it's eternal security. When Jesus prays for his disciples he says, Father they were yours and you gave them to me. When Jesus told his Apostles, get up and follow me, they did because they were already responding to the revelation of God in their lives. My sheep, Jesus tells us, knows my voice and they won't follow a stranger. A missionary told a story in my church once about several shepherds arriving at the same watering hole at the same time. The sheep all ran down together and got mixed up, he wondered how they would sort out the flocks. When they were finished the shepherds walked off each singing a song, he said all the sheep were trying to be the closest to their shepherd.

    When you are in Christ, there is no such thing of being cast out, I've never seen a sensible argument that you can be.

    For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)
    That sounds pretty definitive to me.

    Grace and peace,
    Mark
     
  3. geiroffenberg

    geiroffenberg Well-Known Member

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    how people know they belong to God? we are made righteous by faith without the law. Understanding biblical faith makes it possible for any human being to know they are children of God. Understanding the gospel makes it impossible to doubt the salvation, because it is 100% given into our hands to receive or reject him by faith. Since its all up to us, its only us that can know if we accept him or not.
     
  4. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    Is it necessary to know? After all, God is good, what ever He does, is good. So, I think there is no need to worry in any case.
     
  5. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    "As many of you as were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. ... And if you are Christ's then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to the promise." - Galatians 3:27,29

    All who are baptized belong to Christ, and all who are Christ's are God's, children and heirs of the promise, and we have the Spirit in us, by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!" (Galatians 4:6).

    What does St. Peter say? "Repent and be baptized all of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise is for you and for your children, for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God calls to Himself." (Acts 2:38-39)

    God makes us children and heirs, and seals us in this promise by His own grace, in Holy Baptism, by which we can know we are children and heirs for we belong to Christ. All who are baptized into Christ are Christ's. That's God's promise and pledge to us.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  6. geiroffenberg

    geiroffenberg Well-Known Member

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    I like your point, but it seems to me there is a big need for confidence in the salvation. Martin Luther brought back the pure revelation of righteousness by faith, and if udnerstood correctly, this doctrine has the power to make everyone know for certain they are saved. Faith is a personaly choice, and everyone can do it at any time. Which means salvation can be sure at any time, there is no need for confusion or fear about it. Its a great help as it defeats the constant feeling of condemnation many christians suffer under. And fear of hell. thats a big one for many.
     
  7. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    Thank you for the replies guys. So people chosen by God will naturally come to and believe in Jesus? That's fascinating. Jesus says in those 3 verses that everyone who comes to him for salvation will be saved so those people are naturally eternally secure. But what about those who come to Jesus and do the things I was talking about in the OP. Are they saved? I'm a firm believer because of the many statements of Jesus that we cannot lose our salvation. So people who do those things will lose rewards?
     
  8. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think one of the key words in those verses is 'knew' which is past tense because the day that is being spoken of is in the future.

    The context is Jesus in heaven, presumably ready to judge the living and the dead and of course everyone is going to be trying to make their case to Jesus Christ on why they should go to heaven.

    I think what it symbolizes most is how after we are dead from this earth, it is over. We will then be judged and Jesus expects us to have faith during our lifetimes here and believe.
     
  9. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    I understand that. But I think it may be harmful, when people try to convince themselves that they will get the eternal life. It may be that people should not lift themselves to eternal life. That is on God’s hands and I think people should let it be on God’s hands and trust to God, that He is good. When people truly know God, there is no need for fear. It would be better to focus on how one could live more by the example of Jesus.


    There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear has punishment. He who fears is not made perfect in love.
    1 John 4:18

    But on the other hand, if salvation means forgiveness of sins, people can be sure that sins are forgiven many times, but they should also remember that Jesus taught that we should repent and reject sin. Forgiveness is not useful, if person continues in sin. If people think they cannot lose eternal life, whatever they make and what ever they are, it is not Biblical belief and I hope people understand that the eternal life is for righteous, not for unrighteous people, who don’t get enough of evilness.

    These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
    Mat. 25:46

    If one feels bad, when he knows he has done wrongly, it is good sign and I think it should be appreciated as in this:

    "Two men went up into the temple to pray; one was a Pharisee, and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed to himself like this: 'God, I thank you, that I am not like the rest of men, extortioners, unrighteous, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week. I give tithes of all that I get.' But the tax collector, standing far away, wouldn't even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!' I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."
    Luke 18:10-14

    It shows person has right understanding and that is good thing. :)

    But obviously, people should also think carefully, what is really sin or wrong. Not all is sin and it may be that some people call sin things that are not sin.
     
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