How do the Orthodox view Augustine?

jas3

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From my interactions with an Orthodox priest and from what I've read online, it seems like the Orthodox have a very low opinion of Augustine. Many seem to be hesitant to refer to him as "Saint" and instead say "Blessed Augustine" or just "Augustine," and I've seen attitudes on him varying from "mostly correct except on original sin" to "he was a full-on heretic."

So, I'm confused, is Augustine considered a saint by the Orthodox or not? And why does he seem to be such a controversial figure to many Orthodox?
 

prodromos

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I recommend you find the book by Hieromonk Seraphim Rose, titled "The Place of Blessed Augustine in the Orthodox Church"

The preface reads as follows:

The Place of Blessed Augustine in the Orthodox Church
first edition, 1983​
Preface​
This little study of Blessed Augustine is presented here in book form at the request of a number of Orthodox Christians who read it in its original form in The Orthodox Word (nos. 79 and 80, 1978) and found it to have a message for the Orthodox Christians of today. It can make no claim to completeness as a study of the theology of Blessed Augustine; only one theological issue (grace and free will) is treated here in detail, while the rest of "the study is chiefly historical. If it has any value, it is in revealing the attitude of the Orthodox Church to Blessed Augustine over the centuries; and in trying to define his place in the Orthodox Church, we have perhaps thrown some light on the problem of being Orthodox in our contemporary world, where the feeling and savor of true Orthodox Christianity are so rarely encountered among Orthodox theologians. While setting forth the Orthodox attitude towards Blessed Augustine, the author has also had in mind to remove him as a "scapegoat" for today's academic theologians and thus to help free us all to see his and our own weaknesses in a little clearer light – for his weaknesses, to a surprising degree, are indeed close to our own.​
These weaknesses of ours were vividly brought out for the author not long after the publication of the original study, when he met a Russian, a recent emigrant from the Soviet Union, who had become converted to Orthodoxy in Russia but still understood much of it in terms of the Eastern religious views which he had long held. For him Blessed Augustine also was a kind of scapegoat; he was accused of mistranslating and misunderstanding Hebrew terms, of teaching wrongly about "original sin," etc. Well, yes, one cannot deny that Blessed Augustine applied his over-logicalness to this doctrine also and taught a distorted view of the Orthodox doctrine of ancestral sin – a view, once more, not so much "un-Orthodox" as narrow and incomplete. Augustine virtually denied that man has any goodness or freedom in himself and he thought that each man is responsible for the guilt of Adam's sin in addition to sharing its consequences; Orthodox theology sees these views as one-sided exaggerations of the true Christian teaching.​
However, the deficiencies of Augustine's doctrine were made by this Russian emigrant into an excuse for setting forth a most un-Orthodox teaching of man's total freedom from ancestral sin. Some one-sided criticisms of Augustine's teaching on original sin even among more Orthodox thinkers have led to similar exaggerations, resulting in unnecessary confusions among Orthodox believers: some writers are so much "against" Augustine that they leave the impression that Pelagius was perhaps, after all, an Orthodox teacher (despite the Church's condemnation of him); others delight in shocking readers by declaring that the doctrine of original sin is a "heresy."​
Such over-reactions to the exaggerations of Augustine are worse than the errors they think to correct. In such cases Blessed Augustine becomes, not merely a "scapegoat" on which one loads all possible theological errors, justly or unjustly, but something even more dangerous: an excuse for an elitist philosophy of the superiority of "Eastern wisdom" over everything “Western." According to this philosophy, not only Augustine himself, but also everyone under any kind of "Western influence," including many of the eminent Orthodox theologians of recent centuries, does not "really understand" Orthodox doctrine and must be taught by the present-day exponents of the “patristic revival." Bishop Theophan the Recluse, the great 19th-century Russian Father, is often especially singled out for abuse in this regard: because he used some expressions borrowed from the West, and even translated some Western books (even while changing them to remove all un-Orthodox ideas) since he saw that the spiritually impoverished Orthodox people could benefit from such books (in this he was only following the earlier example of St. Nicodemus of the Holy Mountain) – our present-day "elitists" try to discredit him by smearing him with the name of "scholastic." The further implication of these criticisms is clear: if such great Orthodox teachers as Blessed Augustine and Bishop Theophan cannot be trusted, then how much less can the rest of us ordinary Orthodox Christians understand the complexities of Orthodox doctrine? The "true doctrine" of the Church must be so subtle that it can "really" be understood only by the few who have theological degrees from the modernist Orthodox academies where the “patristic revival" is in full bloom, or are otherwise certified as "genuinely patristic" thinkers.​
Yet, a strange self-contradiction besets this “patristic elite": their language, their tone, their whole approach to such questions – are so very Western (sometimes even “jesuitical"!) that one is astonished at their blindness in trying to criticize what is obviously so much a part of themselves.​
The "Western" approach to theology, the over-logicalness from which, yes, Blessed Augustine (but not Bishop Theophan) did suffer, the over-reliance on the deductions of our fallible mind – is so much a part of every man living today that it is simply foolishness to pretend that it is a problem of someone else and not of ourselves first and foremost. If only we all had even a part of that deep and true Orthodoxy of the heart (to borrow an expression of St. Tikhon of Zadonsk) which Blessed Augustine and Bishop Theophan both possessed to a superlative degree, we would be much less inclined to exaggerate their errors and faults, real or imagined.​
Let the correctors of Augustine's teaching continue their work if they will; but let them do it with more charity, more compassion, more Orthodoxy, more understanding of the fact that Blessed Augustine is in the same heaven towards which we all are striving, unless we wish to deny the Orthodoxy of all those Fathers who regarded him as an Orthodox Saint, from the early Fathers of Gaul through Sts. Photius of Constantinople, Mark of Ephesus, Demetrius of Rostov, to our recent and present teachers of Orthodoxy, headed by Archbishop John Maximovitch. At the least, it is impolite and presumptuous to speak disrespectfully of a Father whom the Church and her Fathers have loved and glorified. Our "correctness" – even if it is really as "correct" as we may think it is – can be no excuse for such disrespect. Those Orthodox Christians who even now continue to express their understanding of grace and ancestral sin in a language influenced by Blessed Augustine are not deprived of the Church's grace; let those who are more "correct" than they in their understanding fear to lose this grace through pride.​
Since the original publication of this study there has been a Roman Catholic response to it: we have been accused of trying to “steal” Blessed Augustine from the Latins! No: Blessed Augustine has always belonged to the Orthodox Church, which alone has properly evaluated both his errors and his greatness. Let Roman Catholics think what they will of him, but we have only tried to point out the place he has always held in the Orthodox Church and in the hearts of Orthodox believers. By the prayers of the holy Hierarch Augustine and of all Thy Saints, O Lord Jesus Christ our God, have mercy on us and save us! Amen.​
Hieromonk Seraphim​
Pascha, 1980​
 
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prodromos

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Lukaris

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St. Augustine had to defend the faith vs Donatists, Arians, Pelagians etc. I read that the Donatists wanted to assassinate him. He died of natural causes but in extreme danger and physical exhaustion in old age as Arian armies besieged the city of Hippo.
 
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Justin-H.S.

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So, I'm confused, is Augustine considered a saint by the Orthodox or not? And why does he seem to be such a controversial figure to many Orthodox?
I think it has to do with his earlier works later on being recanted by the saint himself, but those in the west kept propping up his earlier works which led to the heterodoxy of the west.

So, not necessarily against the saint, but against the effects of his earlier works on the west.
 
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ArmyMatt

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I think it has to do with his earlier works later on being recanted by the saint himself, but those in the west kept propping up his earlier works which led to the heterodoxy of the west.

So, not necessarily against the saint, but against the effects of his earlier works on the west.
yep, although some see him as the root of everything wrong with the West (even though his errors can be found in earlier Christians).
 
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cradleGO

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This video is largely about St. Augustine and his influence in the Western Church and how it deviates from Orthodoxy. It is not said directly here, but he is largely to blame for much of the divergence of the West from Orthodoxy, other than jurisdictional matters.


Fr. Panayiotis Papageorgiou heads the Holy Transfiguration Church (GOA) in Marietta, GA, a suburb of Atlanta. He is originally from Cyprus and holds a PhD in Chemistry (or related) as well as advanced degree/study in Orthodox Christianity.

Fr. has a video on Western ideas/theories of Atonement, and although not said there, to the extent that these are (re)acting on Original Sin, these would also follow from St Augustine's work.
 
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ArmyMatt

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This video is largely about St. Augustine and his influence in the Western Church and how it deviates from Orthodoxy. It is not said directly here, but he is largely to blame for much of the divergence of the West from Orthodoxy, other than jurisdictional matters.


Fr. Panayiotis Papageorgiou heads the Holy Transfiguration Church (GOA) in Marietta, GA, a suburb of Atlanta. He is originally from Cyprus and holds a PhD in Chemistry (or related) as well as advanced degree/study in Orthodox Christianity.

Fr. has a video on Western ideas/theories of Atonement, and although not said there, to the extent that these are (re)acting on Original Sin, these would also follow from St Augustine's work.
to be fair though, in a lot of his errors, St Augustine didn’t originate them. many came from earlier guys like Tertullian and Ambrosiaster. St Augustine was just the great erroneous apologist.
 
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prodromos

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It is not said directly here, but he is largely to blame for much of the divergence of the West from Orthodoxy
And as Fr Seraphim explains, this is not how the Church Fathers see him.
 
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Lukaris

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Just a speculation on St. Augustine and his Trinitarian theology. I know have seen a consistent quote from his work on The Trinity which clearly supports the filioque.

What I wonder though is did he later dispense of this filioque tendency? There are 2 quotes from his work: The Enchiridion that seem fully Orthodox. In chapter 9 St. Augustine states of God, “that He is the Trinity- to wit, the Father, and the Son begotten of the Father, and the Holy Spirit proceeding from the same Father, but one and the same Spirit of the Father and the Son.”

Later in chapter 38 St. Augustine states, “Our Lord Jesus Christ, who of God is God, and as man was born of the Holy Spirit and of the Virgin Mary, having both substances, the divine and the human, is the only Son of God the Father Almighty, from whom proceedeth the Holy Spirit.”

In chapter 38, St. Augustine was dealing with crazy opinions that said things like the Son of God had 2 fathers including the Holy Spirit! The editors note also that this really sound theology is from a more ancient form of the Apostles Creed which is ok in its known form but less precise than this more possible older form.

My quotes are from a 1961 Gateway edition. This was reissued intact in 1996 but with a new external introduction.

.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Just a speculation on St. Augustine and his Trinitarian theology. I know have seen a consistent quote from his work on The Trinity which clearly supports the filioque.

What I wonder though is did he later dispense of this filioque tendency? There are 2 quotes from his work: The Enchiridion that seem fully Orthodox. In chapter 9 St. Augustine states of God, “that He is the Trinity- to wit, the Father, and the Son begotten of the Father, and the Holy Spirit proceeding from the same Father, but one and the same Spirit of the Father and the Son.”

Later in chapter 38 St. Augustine states, “Our Lord Jesus Christ, who of God is God, and as man was born of the Holy Spirit and of the Virgin Mary, having both substances, the divine and the human, is the only Son of God the Father Almighty, from whom proceedeth the Holy Spirit.”

In chapter 38, St. Augustine was dealing with crazy opinions that said things like the Son of God had 2 fathers including the Holy Spirit! The editors note also that this really sound theology is from a more ancient form of the Apostles Creed which is ok in its known form but less precise than this more possible older form.

My quotes are from a 1961 Gateway edition. This was reissued intact in 1996 but with a new external introduction.

.
interesting. maybe he had some retractions that he just never formulated as retractions.
 
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cradleGO

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his errors, St Augustine didn’t originate them. many came from earlier guys like Tertullian and Ambrosiaster.
I've seen I believe Fr Panayiotis mention Ambrosiaster's influence. To the bigger point, if St Augustine is held in high regard in the Western Church, then that crowds out the Eastern Church's view of Redemption and Its rejection of Original Sin. And since Original Sin requires the Roman Catholics to invent the Immaculate Conception dogma, I think St Augustine can bear a big portion of responsibility for the West-East split. (Not to mention the Virgin Mary's "Co-Redemptrix" phase of RC thought.) Plus, with Original Sin as dogma, then the focus is sufficient on the Crucifixion as the key event of Jesus' Purpose, and the Resurrection can be thought of as confirmation of Divinity but nothing more. Seems to me that St Augustine is in the thick of it as to Rome driving off the Road.
 
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ArmyMatt

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I've seen I believe Fr Panayiotis mention Ambrosiaster's influence. To the bigger point, if St Augustine is held in high regard in the Western Church, then that crowds out the Eastern Church's view of Redemption and Its rejection of Original Sin. And since Original Sin requires the Roman Catholics to invent the Immaculate Conception dogma, I think St Augustine can bear a big portion of responsibility for the West-East split. (Not to mention the Virgin Mary's "Co-Redemptrix" phase of RC thought.) Plus, with Original Sin as dogma, then the focus is sufficient on the Crucifixion as the key event of Jesus' Purpose, and the Resurrection can be thought of as confirmation of Divinity but nothing more. Seems to me that St Augustine is in the thick of it as to Rome driving off the Road.
oh, I am not minimizing his impact on Western theology, only that some of the stuff he is accused of creating or whatever didn’t actually originate with him.
 
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prodromos

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I think St Augustine's problem was simply that he was a prolific writer. Whatever his thoughts were, he wrote them down but he did not do so for the purpose of teaching others except when he was specifically fighting against heresy. It is not his fault that others took what he wrote and ran with it. Unfortunately the move into Scholasticism in the West, I believe played a large part in Rome's diversion from Patristic thought and theology, along with the loss of Greek literacy in the West.
 
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ArmyMatt

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I think St Augustine's problem was simply that he was a prolific writer. Whatever his thoughts were, he wrote them down but he did not do so for the purpose of teaching others except when he was specifically fighting against heresy. It is not his fault that others took what he wrote and ran with it. Unfortunately the move into Scholasticism in the West, I believe played a large part in Rome's diversion from Patristic thought and theology, along with the loss of Greek literacy in the West.
he was also the first major writer who gave us his personal speculations, rather than simply apologetic or pastoral works.
 
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ValeriyK2022

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In any case, the Orthodox Church venerates him as a saint, although Orthodox people know little about him. It is the same with Saint Martin and Saint Patrick and with many other Western saints whose holiness was recognized in the 1st millennium.
 
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ArmyMatt

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In any case, the Orthodox Church venerates him as a saint, although Orthodox people know little about him. It is the same with Saint Martin and Saint Patrick and with many other Western saints whose holiness was recognized in the 1st millennium.
yep, hopefully as more people from the West become Orthodox, our knowledge of pre-Schism Western saints will grow.
 
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J_B_

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I have 2 questions about Orthodox views based on comments made in this thread:
1) Was Augustine ever challenged by church leaders during his lifetime? It seems other controversial teachers, such as Origen, did receive some criticism for unorthodox ideas during their lifetime.

It also seems the place of Augustine in western Christendom, at least his place in my own Confessional Lutheran church, is sometimes misunderstood. Though highly regarded and influential, he is not viewed as infallible (nor is Luther for that matter). I've heard Lutheran pastors criticize Augustine (and Luther) about some of their statements.

2) What about the Athanasian Creed? Much is made of the Nicene Creed and the filioque, but one passage of the Athanasian Creed could be seen as supportive of it. At least in the west, 3 creeds are used - the Nicene, Apostle's, and Athanasian (and, yes, I realize those names are likely later attributions). What do the Orthodox think of these other creeds?
 
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