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Featured how do people who believe in eternal torture in fire

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by ClementofA, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who disobey the gospel of God?
    18 And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?

    Peter asks these questions. Does he know the answer to them? Compare from the same chapter:

    6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

    and from 1 Pet 3:

    18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
    19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

    Acts 3:21 whom it behoveth heaven, indeed, to receive till times of restoration of all, of which God spake through the mouth of all His holy prophets from the age.

    Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

    Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."

    https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
  2. Billy Sizemore

    Billy Sizemore New Member

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    Yes Romans 5:17-19 reads"
    17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

    18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

    19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

    21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

    That's his part. We must still seek forgiveness for our sins and make a profession of faith. Your false religion is not Christianity because you are leaving out the very foundation of the Christian faith, the faith part. Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    Your false doctrine is flawed on multiple levels you are spreading the lie of no need to even acknowledge God. Do you know what the word reprobate means?
    Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

    To be honest I don't understand why you are even talking about this. Perhaps the most fundamental flaw of your false doctrine is that it completely does away with the need for the gospel and the great commission. Your false religion teaches that all are saved and if you have never heard the gospel or repented then everything is ok you still have nothing to worry about. If that was the case those who started your religion would have just said, "everyone keep quiet as long as they don't know it's gonna be alright". That's not what Jesus said, instead, this is what Jesus commanded Christians to do in Matthew 28:18-20
    18. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

    19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

    20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.Amen.

    Therefore your religion is just that... another false religion.
     
  3. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    Is Christ the minister of sin? God forbid

    So who sins? The person doing the sin does your God control him and make him sin?
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
  4. Soar Like and Eagle

    Soar Like and Eagle Well-Known Member

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    God made all things. Man sins. Its His nature to sin from the sin of Adam. God knew Adam would sin that is why He had a savior before a sinner. Why would God need a lamb slain from the foundation of the earth if there was no sinner in God's plan.

    Do you really believe little Adam could cause all mankind to fall into sin and death without God's total sovereign control. That would mean little Adam is the God and God is helpless because Adam's will is greater than God.

    On the contrary Adam was weak, innocent and can be deceived because God lowered Adam from a pure spirit made in God's image and likeness to a dust man a soul man so it was Adam's nature of the dust or carnality to do what the flesh man does.

    God is all knowing, sees all, creates all and there is absolute nothing out of His divine sovereign control

    Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouth’s)

    It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.

    1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

    23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
     
  5. Jonathan Leo

    Jonathan Leo Well-Known Member

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    That’s like asking “Do you believe Jesus exists”
     
  6. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    I asked you a simple question, "is Christ the minister of sin?" and you respond with, "God made all things". So are you saying God made sin and made man sin? If not then man has a free will to chose. If man sinned in the garden and God made them all good before they sinned. The God does not make man sin. To even suggest that God plans and makes all things including sin is a horrifying doctrine. Paul says "God forbid".

    I guess i can ask again

    "Is Christ the minister of sin?

    ye, or no? a simple answer is all I need.

    And if a believer sins who makes him sin? We cannot blame God for such a thing. There fore man is the one who sins, not God and God cannot do iniquity or sin. God does not tempt man to sin. Every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust and enticed.

    So this idea that God plans and does ALL things is false. God cannot lie, deny Himself, or change, and God doth not iniquity etc.


    It wasn't in his nature before he sinned God made him good. They were with God and walked with God.

    The lamb was slain after Adam and Eve sinned. Not before. The first lamb slain from the foundation of the world was to cover Adam and Eve sin, and then Abel sacrificed for sin.

    Again when you say "God's control" are you saying that really it was God who caused Adam and Eve to sin and not their own free will to chose? If so that is a horrible doctrine and contrary to scripture.

    Again are you saying that God made Adam and Eve sin, like robots? That God caused Adam and Eve to sin? If not then they have free will within the bounds of the way God made them. God enabled them to be able to chose.


    Only IN Christ are all men made alive. If men died out of Christ they are cast forth as a branch and withered and cast into the fire John 15.

    And have you even thought about children salvation? I am talking about a one day old infant that comes into the world. That expression "the free gift (John 1:9, the seed sown, the word etc) came upon all men unto justification. Could cover infants. They are saved by the grace of Christ and not condemned until the law comes to their understanding, or the commandment and sin revives (their sin nature is revised) and they die (spiritually) Romans 7:9. And Jesus spoke of the reason men are condemned in John 3 when they hate the light because their deeds are evil. Of the infants Jesus said they were blessed and of such is the kingdom.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
  7. Soar Like and Eagle

    Soar Like and Eagle Well-Known Member

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    Lets talk about a horrible doctrine.

    I answered your question with two words. Here they are again. Man sins.

    That is a fact which you asked and I posted. Did God make man sin was never said. I said God controls all things something you do not believe. Not my problem.
    Col 1: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

    We have discussed this over many post and I am sure you should know the scriptures I have posted to prove this because you tried very hard to refute everything I said with negative results.

    I was born with a sin nature and we all were since Adam. I would ask you if this is true but you would not answer. But yes man sins. Who's fault? The man because it is his nature to sin because he was born in a body of sin and death. Something I doubt you will agree on.

    You said: The lamb was slain after Adam and Eve sinned. Not before. The first lamb slain from the foundation of the world was to cover Adam and Eve sin, and then Abel sacrificed for sin.

    Does the Bible mean anything to you? Where does it say this?"The first lamb slain from the foundation of the world was to cover Adam and Eve sin, and then Abel sacrificed for sin"??? The First Lamb was Jesus. Lambs are flesh and meat not something amazing God did before He even created a thing. Wow you no understanding of who God is if you believe this.

    Than you said this:"
    So this idea that God plans and does ALL things is false. God cannot lie, deny Himself, or change, and God doth not iniquity etc.

    Col 1: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence

    I hate that word "might" God does not might anything.

    Show me anywhere in scripture Adam and Eve have a freewill and I will become a King James only baptist at least for a month. That included in my debating on this web site. Another assumption on your part that is not scriptural. How can Adam and Eve freely choose if it was God's plan.

    Than you said:"
    It wasn't in his nature before he sinned God made him good. They were with God and walked with God." How convenient of you to ignore facts like God formed man from the dust of the earth and made him a living soul. Why did God do that???? That happened after God said it was good. So why did God change Adam and Eve? I know you all want to blame Adam and make God a creator of some things but not all things because God in your eyes is totally helpless and Adam and Satan pulled the wool over God's eyes. How did they do this perhaps God was looking the other way or maybe sleeping?

    You want to know a real evil doctrine. The doctrine is the vast majority of people God created in His image and likeness are going to be tortured FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER WITH NO MERCY BY YOUR MONSTER GOD.

    The rest I will address later I need to go.
     
  8. Bumble Bee

    Bumble Bee Disciplemaker Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    MOD HAT ON
    This thread has undergone a small clean up. Please remember to address the content of the post instead of personally attacking the members making the posts.
    MOD HAT OFF
     
  9. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    So when you say God controls all things where did sin come from and lies. Is God in control of making man sin? If not what do you mean by God controls all things?

    does all things mean God controls who does any action and makes them sin or not from Adam and Eve before the fall??

    Yes we know that an actual animal is not what saved them (Hebrews 10:4). They covered sin but did not take away sin. It was a type of the lamb of God (Jesus Christ) who came and died for their sin. But the lamb slain from the foundation was typifying this reality in time. The sacrifices were bullocks lambs turtle doves..

    "Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them"(Genesis 3:21)

    Here we se that God shed blood first to cover them from their sin.

    Leviticus 4:20
    "And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them."

    "3.Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:...6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening....it is the Lord's passover."(Exodus 12:3,6,11 KJV)


    And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lordhad respect unto Abel and to his offering:"(Genesis 4:4 KJV)

    "By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh."(Hebrews 11:4 KJV)

    "For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:"(Hebrews 9:13)



    "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:..."(Genesis 1:26)

    Does God have freewill?

    if man was created in the image of God then they also have free will. God did not make a robot.

    and

    "16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die"(Genesis 2:16,17 KJV)

    So they had freewill for they could freely eat of ever tree but the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They did chose to eat of this and died. God told them not to and God cannot deny Himself and cannot sin and he does not make man sin. Adam harkened to the voice of His wife and she listens to the serpent. t was not God they followed in this sin and God cannot deny himself or his will. When men deny him it is they who do it. Freewill, clear and simple

    I don't need you to become a "baptist", and as far as the KJV that is the bible it would be good if you just read that . But you have to be convinced of the truth of the book and you have a freewill to chose what book you read.
     
  10. Soar Like and Eagle

    Soar Like and Eagle Well-Known Member

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    So when you say God controls all things where did sin come from and lies. Is God in control of making man sin? If not what do you mean by God controls all things?

    does all things mean God controls who does any action and makes them sin or not from Adam and Eve before the fall?


    You do not believe scripture has anything to say. You totally ignore all scripture unless it fits you bias understanding. Sin came from Adam but Adam was doing what any dust man could do and God formed Adam from the dust of the earth and made him a living soul. That is a scriptural fact you ignore and deny yet you are so determined to prove Adam had a freewill by assumption and absolutely no Scripture to back up this false claim.

    Sin came from Adam who God created and foreordained to fall into sin and death not willing as Romans 8:20 declares. If you do not believe this than please give me scriptural reference that Adam had a freewill? Its not there. So who do I believe you or the Bible you claim you believe but do not.

    God created Satan as a liar and murderer never an angle and we spent a good week on this subject which I quote Scripture and all you quoted was your opinion and no scripture that proved Satan was an angel from his beginning.

    God is sovereign? Freewill is a religious word not a scriptural word unless you think the freewill offering in the OT has something to do with man's freewill. So does God have freewill I do not know but what I do know is His will will be done and not little Adam superseding God's will.
    SHOW me in scripture where Adam had a freewill.

    Romans 9:15-16King James Version (KJV) 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.


    God is the author and finisher of ALL THINGS. He is the FIRST and the LAST. He is the ALPHA and the OMEGA. Not only is it true that God was there at the beginning and will be there at the end, but also that God IS the beginning and God IS the end. He IS the Alpha and He IS the Omega (the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet) and consequently He is all the letters in between. "I am He that IS and WAS and IS TO COME." ALL THINGS, ALL THINGS had their beginning in Him and ALL THINGS, ALL THINGS will have their end in Him.
     
  11. WrongClub_Lucius

    WrongClub_Lucius New Member

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    I think it would be quite helpful to avoid using the term "sin". Everyone thinks they know what "sin" is, but I think most of those ideas are wrong.

    I recently learned that Catholicism has a two part explanation for sin and the human condition--there is falling from grace (Adam's sin), and there is the confusion of human passions. These are two different terms from the original texts, but this distinction has been erased by the Protestant reformers (i.e. Luther and Calvin), who used the two terms interchangeably, effectively applying a single meaning to both words.

    Protestant theology therefore says we have a single problem, but that's wrong. We have two completely separate problems. We have the problem of having rejected God, and we have the problem of not being very good at living within the constraints this world imposes on us. (The law is harmonious with the constraints of "reality", so I prefer to think of it as a guide, showing us how to live, rather than a list of all the things we're going to be brutally punished for.)

    I intentionally frame sin in this way, because I understand that what is "good" is actions that result in good results for ourselves and others, and "evil" is action that result in net negative outcomes.

    And also, we should remember that Adam and Eve decided they wanted to "be like God, knowing good and evil." Adam and Eve didn't know immediately; that's not what happened. Instead, they joined Satan, who is claiming he is able to know for himself what is good and evil.

    We are like Adam and Eve. The fact is we do not really know what is good and evil, and even when we are told (i.e. the law), we struggle to follow it. We struggle for many reasons, because of our passions, because of our limited knowledge and wisdom, and because of all the pre-existing evil from everyone else's failures.

    We "sin", because we're temporal creatures living in a maze of actions and consequences that we are wholly incapable of navigating "perfectly". We can't do it, and I am convinced that Adam and Eve were equally incapable. The were not "perfect" in any sense other than being perfect to do the job they were created to do, which is learn/ experience/ demonstrate what is good and evil, which is what life has always been about.


    This reality I'm describing is intentional. This is the way God designed the world to be. Why? Because there was a serious accusation made in heaven, a lie, and the accusation needs to be answered in order for God to preserve heaven. This is the "war" we read about. Satan has been given an opportunity to prove his claim; certainly God gives him freedom to do whatever he wants to do. I'm saying there is something happening around us, and we can know what it is!

    And what about this judgement? Eternal fire is created for Satan and the fallen angels, those who have sparked rebellion in heaven. But we know that "every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord." To me it seems unlikely that these will be cast into the fire along with Satan. Punishment like being separated/ distant from God is in order, but hell fire is a different thing in my mind. But Lutherans seem to think that separation = hellfire? We'll probably never resolve this until it's all over.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
  12. Soar Like and Eagle

    Soar Like and Eagle Well-Known Member

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    The time was before the foundation of the world not after Adam's sin.

    1 Peter 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

    This verse identifies who the lamb was and also says was preordained


    Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    This has to do with God's plan for man BEFORE there was a sinner God ORDAINED the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world,

    So this proves God knew Adam would sin or there is no need for the lamb slain.

    Shut off your preconceived bias and learn to read the Bible for what it says not what you are forcing to to say because that is what you were taught. The Pharassees were taught too the traditions of their elders
     
  13. Soar Like and Eagle

    Soar Like and Eagle Well-Known Member

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    Nice opinion but you should read a lot of this thread before you get deep into it. Hell is a mis-translation and God's fire is spiritual for starters.
     
  14. Soar Like and Eagle

    Soar Like and Eagle Well-Known Member

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    If you look at Genesis the fact that God formed man from the dust of the earth and made him a living soul is a scriptural FACT. Adam being having a freewill to choose or having choice is assumed not not in scripture.

    (Romans 8;20)

    It was God’s choose Adam to fall because God has a greater plan. If God did not ordain Adam and Eve’s fall; then He is not all knowing. It was God lowered Adam from a spirit to a living soul and formed him from dust man. It was God who made Adam and Eve innocent; they did not do it them selves. It was God who put the tree of good and evil in the garden. It was God who put the devil, a man slayer, a murderer, a liar in the garden; God totally knew what he was doing with Adam and Eve.


    .It was God not little Adam and Eve who caused the fall, it was God not little Adam who planned as well as set up Adam and Eve to fall into the curse of sin and death; it is God not Little Adam and Eve who declares: Romans 8: 20 The created world was bound to fail. But that was not the result of its own choice. It was planned that way by the One who made it. God planned to set the created world free. He didn't want it to rot away completely. Instead, he wanted it to have the same glorious freedom that his children have


    Ps. 90:1-3. "Lord, You have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You have formed the earth or the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God. You turn man to destruction; and say return you children of men.

    Notice I am quoting scripture something you refuse to ACKNOWLEDGE and you replace it with your assuming something that is NOT SCRIPTURAL.

    No Go.
     
  15. WrongClub_Lucius

    WrongClub_Lucius New Member

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    Thanks, but I think I'll stay. :)

    I am sorry for not reading all 35 pages of this heated thread... I am hoping to suggest that divisiveness is not the key to understanding and wisdom.

    I was agreeing with many of the points you make.

    You are saying that God did these things, and they had to happen this way. That is fine. But please tell us why did God choose to do it this way. There must be a good reason, right? If God is forcing events to play out this way, as you say, there must be something unique or special about this sequence of events that is so important it cannot be left to chance?

    I don't like listing chapter and verse all the time, but from Romans 9 it asks how can the pot say to the pot maker, why have you made me this way? It sounds like you are following this kind of logic.

    The skeptic says that this kind of argument proves that God is evil, rather than good. And he has a good point! If we believe that God is good, we need to preserve God's justice and goodness within our understanding, lest we inadvertently turn God into a monster!
     
  16. Soar Like and Eagle

    Soar Like and Eagle Well-Known Member

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    It does get heated when people lock their points behind religious walls not what God is saying. I see man as God's sons all of us who are made in his image and likeness but of course why the fall of sin and death? God has taken us out of the Eden/Spirit realm so we can go though the spiritual processing of this lower realm so that in the ages to come He will have overcomers like Christ Jesus; not weaklings, naive, innocent son like Adam. It is the processing it is all about. Its not a matter if we go thought the spiritual fire of God it when. In the end God will have mature sons who he will use to call all people He never called on the realm of earth now. Now of course this is all opinion and I would be glad to discuss scripture.

    Revelation 1:6
    and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
     
  17. WrongClub_Lucius

    WrongClub_Lucius New Member

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    To paraphrase, it seems you are saying that God wants or needs us to have knowledge/ maturity/ wisdom? God does tell us to pursue wisdom and to standing up to injustice and all the rest, so there really is no doubt that God wants us to be strong and mature.

    So the next question: why does God need this from us?

    I think the answer comes from an obscure comment that Paul makes, were he says, "Don't you know that we will judge angels?" (Oh yeah, you like the references...1 Cor 6:3)

    If we are to judge angels, what is it that qualifies us to judge?

    I believe our qualification to judge is the knowledge of good and evil that we gain in our lives. And the conflict between God and Satan must be the question of what is good and evil, if we are to be judges. Satan says, "You can be like God, knowing good and evil." Satan is saying that they can be gods in their own right, which is the same lie that he used to attack God's authority and claim to the throne.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  18. WrongClub_Lucius

    WrongClub_Lucius New Member

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    oops...
     
  19. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Romans 5:18-19 does not deny repentance & faith. That is the way to obtain the life & justification it speaks of:

    Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

    Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."

    Paul makes a parallel between "the many" who were condemned & sinners and those who will be justified & constituted just.

    The "many" in v.19 is a Hebraism meaning all. Just as Jesus says He would give His life a ransom for "many" (Mk.10:45) which Paul says is "all" people (1 Tim.2:4-6).

    “In Romans 5, the justification is co-extensive with the condemnation. Since all share in one, all share in the other. If only a certain portion of the human race had partaken of the sin of Adam, only a certain portion would partake of the justification of Christ. But St. Paul affirms all to have been involved in one, and all to be included in the other.”

    You are misinformed & misrepresenting universalism. In a word, wrong. In the future I'd suggest learning the ABC's of what others believe before trying to act like an expert.

    See my comment above. It applies here again.

    Why don't you give me your, um, opinion. Hopefully it will, unlike your comments above, have some truth to it.

    How would you when you don't know your ABC's? That is quite common here for those attacking universalism without knowledge.

    But thanks for your honesty.

    All are not now saved. And everything is not ok. The wicked do have something to worry about, i.e. hell, just not the endless tortures that go on pointlessly for trillions of ages that never end. As a punishment for the sins of a life of a few years or decades. That sounds fair, eh? Fair & just does that make God? And righteous too?

    This is a Christians only forum. Not a false religions forum. IOW only Christians are to post here. Have you never heard that in the early church many Christians were universalists? There were many annihilationists, too. Do you also call believing in that a false religion? Where does Scripture make believing in endless torments a requirement for salvation?
     
  20. Soar Like and Eagle

    Soar Like and Eagle Well-Known Member

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    God's Bible is the most amazing spiritual tool but is noting but a religious book without the Spirit of God opening its pages. Here is a prime example in these debates. We have someone like me and a few others (did you notice we pretty much agree with each other) and than you have the religious realm. I left the religious realm forty three years ago when I heard the call for come out of her. That was the best thing I ever did in my spiritual life and I have never turned back.

    It took God drawing out of the system so my spirit would be open and ready to hear God Spirit not the 10,000 systems of Baby-lon. That was the first step. It was not an easy step for I was deeply trained to see God the way they told me to see Him no matter how much my spirit would speak to me this is NOT right. How can a God of love have an eternal hell. I received the baptism of the Spirit on an Aircraft carrier in the Gulf of Token in 1971 in my bunk with 60 other people sleeping in the same area. Talking about trying to calm the spirit with in. But even after that it was about three years before I really started my journey to seek the deep things of God.

    It also has to do with an anointing of other people for there are people who have a King Saul anointing and God will always have His anointed or David/Moses etc. Both of these men were anointed but one was chosen by the people the other was chosen by God when the Saul was still King and had to wait on the Lord until it was His time to reign but He still had God's choose anointing.

    Seeing I am speaking of David I want to throw a curve. one of the first thing David did as King was get the Ark of God back from the Philistines who had stolen it from the religious Israelite who had been corrupted and loss there glory with God so God let the ark leave the inner court of the Tabernacle in the wilderness and the Philistines took the ark which was not a good thing. Funny thing the name of the religious High Priest was Ichabod (Hebrew: אִיכָבוֹד‎, ikhavod – no glory, inglorious or where is the glory?) which in Hebrew means the glory has departed. That is the religious realm today. The glory has departed.

    Than we have the real glory after David took that Ark of The Covenant back to Zion where he lived and had His court. That is called the Tabernacle of David and that is how God will restore all the people he never called in the ages to come. I will stop here but there is so much more and it only gets deeper.
     
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