how do people who believe in eternal torture in fire

[LoveofTruth]

AMEN..... AION is a noun meaning, "A period of time, or perpetuity of time, or definitive age, or unbroken age." It simply means an age with unknown measure which can be in-definitive or definitive.

So literally the word "AIONIOS" being translated as "Eternal" would more accurately be defined as "agely"; however since "agely" is not a real word, that leaves the English language without a literal translation for the word "AIONIOS".

per·pet·u·al
pərˈpeCH(o͞o)əl/
adjective

1. 1.
   never ending or changing.

 

[Almost there]

What's an unction?

Oh, anointing with oil. I just looked it up.

 

[Almost there]

per·pet·u·al
pərˈpeCH(o͞o)əl/
adjective

1. 1.
   never ending or changing.

I don't think people are arguing the meaning of the english words. I think they are arguing whether the original text was interpreted correctly and translated to the right english words.

 

[he-man]

"O.K. so, how do you people who believe in eternal torture in fire, how do you tuck your children in at night and explain to them that God loves you but if you don't love Him He is going to torture you in fire, not for the length of your favorite video, not for the length of a day, not even for the length of a year but it will be unending. Mommy and Daddy will be in heaven while you writhe in unimaginable suffering because this is what God does to those who don't love Him."

"So how do you explain to your children about God's love? Do you tell them the truth that you love your children more than God does and you would never harm your children even if they don't love you?"

"There has to come a time when you tell them the truth, don't you think?"

"This is not sarcasm. It is letting those who believe in eternal torment come to grips with their beliefs. If they are honest with themselves they have to tell their children these things.
After all, we wouldn't want to sugar coat something so serious as a loving God torturing people for billions and billions and billions and billions of years without end, those who do not love Him, now would we?"

"And if your children only love Him to escape such a fate, what kind of hypocritical love is that?"

"As a child, camping out, I would ask my friends as we sat around the campfire and looking into it: "How can God burn people in fire for e--t--e--r--n--i--t--y?" No one would say a word. But it always bugged me. As I grew up and started visiting hell-fire churches, it was psychologically horrifying. It's like the people that attend those churches do so for the thrill of having the begeebies scared out of them. Kind of like thrill seekers. I was so glad to leave that behind and find out about God's love and plan for all mankind."

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"Yep. People who say that they believe in Hell aren't remotely serious. If they were, they would be catatonic."

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"I went through a phase where I strongly believed in ET. I lost my appetite (and thus a lot of weight) and was constantly anxious. It was terrible."


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"That is indeed the seat of a LOT of mental health concerns many Christians who subscribe to it suffer; consequently, I can understand certain over-the-top reactions by some
supposed non-believers."


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"Basically Hell is a component in an intellectual construct that many people toy with in their minds. Nobody believes in Hell in the same way that I believe that I love my daughter,
that my mother loves me, that the sky is blue, etc."

Concerning 1 Timothy 4:10

------------------------------------------------



Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

Yes many have been deceived simply because they follow the orthodox way and do not understand Koine Greek. 2 Thessalonian 1:9 actually reads: the unbelieving ones who know not will pay the penalty of destruction everlasting.

 

[Almost there]

Yes many have been deceived simply because they follow the orthodox way and do not understand Koine Greek. 2 Thessalonian 1:9 actually reads: the unbelieving ones who know not will pay the penalty of destruction everlasting.

Exactly. To put it another way, they are killed and they STAY dead, everlasting. They ain't comin' back.

 

[LoveofTruth]

What's an unction?

Oh, anointing with oil. I just looked it up.

An endowment of the Spirit or anointing

 

[he-man]

Exactly. To put it another way, they are killed and they STAY dead, everlasting. They ain't comin' back.

Correct, not until they repent and are resurrected. Why
? Because God has blinded the unbelieving ones who know not God, lest the glorious light should shine upon them 2 Corinthians 4:4

 

[Almost there]

An endowment of the Spirit or anointing

When we first moved from Seattle to KY, we went to a rural "KJVO" baptist church a mile from our home. It was kinda funny. People would be asked to read from scripture in the sunday school class, and one day they picked me. I happily read the full chapter - in my NIV bible. There were no small number of odd, and a couple of mean looks.

But the funny part was one day the pastor was trying to explain a particularly confusing scripture and he "paraphrased" it for the congregation. My wife had her NIV bible open and I read along. He said, word for word, what was in her NIV.

I hate having to translate while I read. I use a lot of versions nowadays, including the KJV, but it is my least favorite because it has a lot of errors, a lot of additions that don't belong, and it is not written in my native tongue. And thanks to all of the lexicons available, If I really want to drill into a verse, I have those.

 

[he-man]

Exactly. To put it another way, they are killed and they STAY dead, everlasting. They ain't comin' back.

Correct, not unless they repent and they are resurrected. Why
? Because God has blinded the unbelieving ones who know not God, lest the glorious light should shine upon them 2 Corinthians 4:4

 

[Almost there]

Correct, not until they are resurrected. Why
? Because God has blinded he unbelieving one who know not God, lest the glorious light should shine upon them 2 Corinthians 2:4

Someone that is dead and stays dead will not be resurrected. They are dead. Eternally so. The real question is, when do they (not the earthly tent they occupy) die? For me, the answer is one of two possibilities:
1. When they experience the second death at the GWTJ.
2. The GWTJ thing is a metaphor. That is, they are tried "in absentia" because their soul died when their body died.

Or something like that.

But the key is that their fate is eternal. They're dead, Jim.

 

[he-man]

Someone that is dead and stays dead will not be resurrected. They are dead. Eternally so. The real question is, when do they (not the earthly tent they occupy) die? For me, the answer is one of two possibilities:
1. When they experience the second death at the GWTJ.
2. The GWTJ thing is a metaphor. That is, they are tried "in absentia" because their soul died when their body died.

Or something like that.

But the key is that their fate is eternal. They're dead, Jim.

You got it

 

[Ronald]

Ever since I had shoulder surgery, I think I came up with the perfect analogy of what's going on. At least my belief:

When I was put under before surgery, I was asked to take a deep breath. I did. He then asked me to take another one. I did, but in the middle of that second breath I was suddenly in the recovery room several hours later.

I think that is the experience of the lost (and maybe the saved). You die and are instantly at the GWTJ, even if you died in the great flood.

Interestingly, I had a dream about 50 years ago that also went like that. I dreamed I slammed my car into a solid concrete barrier in Tukwilla Washington on the Green river just south of Costco (though costco was not there then). But when I hit the concrete, It was like breaking through an opaque glass window with blinding bright light on the other side.

I'm using both as illustrations, not as some sort of vision or anything.

And I think they fit in with what the bible says about the time between death and the judgement, so I'm good.

I agree. Jesus said, "there is one life, one death and then the judgment". We sometimes think ,in our time dimension, that the GWTJ is post Millennial Kingdom and that is where we find it in Revelation, but heaven is not in our time domain, it is in a spiritual realm. So we are ushered to that throne, I think. The judgment for us is passed over since He sees us as pure, washed in the blood of the Lamb. Rewards are given based on our works ... I don't expect much there, just happy to be let into the Pearly Gates.

 

[Almost there]

You got it

My wording was not very good. but yeah, we seem to be saying the same thing.

 

[Almost there]

I agree. Jesus said, "there is one, one death and then the judgment". We sometimes think ,in our time dimension, that the GWTJ is post Millennial Kingdom and that is where we find it in Revelation, but heaven is not in our time domain, it is in a spiritual realm. So we are ushered to that throne, I think. The judgment for us is added over since He sees us as pure, washed in the blood of the Lamb. Rewards are given based on our works ... I don't expect much there, just happy to be let into the Pearly Gates.

So, you're the one that escapes, as through a fire?

 

[Ronald]

To preach or teach or imply that there is another way for lost sinners to be saved rather than faith in Christ and His work for salvation on the cross and resurrection in this life is to preach another gospel. Men cannot be saved after death as it is appointed unto men once to die then the judgement. If hell was some kind of purgation where they would eventually be saved that would be another gospel and accursed doctrine. The devil is crafty and he plays with words and strives with words etc.

The payment for sin is death and eternal separation from God they cannot pay to the uttermost ( eternity forever and ever)

Agree with everything except the eternal part.
Btw, whose preaching that there is any other way for lost sinners to be saved? I'm not, so don't imply that I am.

 

[Ronald]

In all that research did you happen to review E. W. Bullinger's, Figures of Speech Used in the Bible published in 1898? What some folks dismiss as a word having two different meanings might instead be one of the more than 200 figures of speech Bullinger identified such as hyperbole.

Hyperbole is used along with various other figures of speech in scripture - aware of that. Your point? I suppose you are implying that aion or aionios when used to describe temporal periods of time, they must be figures of speech, not to be taken literally?

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

per·pet·u·al
pərˈpeCH(o͞o)əl/
adjective

1. 1.
   never ending or changing.

Agely. Sorry will not find that in KJ or some bias dictionary

 

[LoveofTruth]

Someone that is dead and stays dead will not be resurrected. They are dead. Eternally so. The real question is, when do they (not the earthly tent they occupy) die? For me, the answer is one of two possibilities:
1. When they experience the second death at the GWTJ.
2. The GWTJ thing is a metaphor. That is, they are tried "in absentia" because their soul died when their body died.

Or something like that.

But the key is that their fate is eternal. They're dead, Jim.

John 5 - 29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. “

 

[Ronald]

So, you're the one that escapes, as through a fire?

Just had an epiphany when I read that. God is a consuming fire. We would burn up if He appeared to us without at least partially covering Himself. He will test our works with fire as well, anything spiritually unpure will burn. Those beings who have sin cannot be in His presence, they would burn, which is why they are in outer darkness. Interesting how judgment is with fire.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

John 5 - 29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. “

The word resurrection means to rise. The word damn also means to be judged. God's judgement are just
AGAIN>>>
"But there were false prophets also among the people,
even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily
shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that
bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." (II Pt 2:1)
.