How do Orthodox pronounce Greek?

[Servus Iesu]

Hello all,

I'm taking Greek in college and I have come to the realization that Greek prayers and Greek liturgics are pronounced much differently from how I am being taught. I think we are using Erasmus' pronunciation. In Church do you use the modern Greek pronunciation? Perhaps this is somewhat akin to Latin. In Church we use ecclesiastical Latin, which is pronounced almost exactly like Italian, but in classics courses most professors use "classical" pronunciation, which is apparently the construct of 19th century German scholars.

I know H is pronounced 'ee' rather than 'ay'. One of my professors told me that Greeks pronounce B as 'veta' and Gamma as 'yamma' and Upsilon as 'eepsilon'. Is this what is used in Church? What other differences should I be aware of?

 

[E.C.]

Not all Orthodox churches use Greek. However, I believe that those who do, use Koine Greek which is older and different from modern Greek.

No, I do not know Greek, but I would like to learn Russian some day.

 

[KATHXOYMENOC]

Here is my chart comparing 1st-century Greek pronunciation (as best as can be reconstructed by Dr. Randall Buth) with Modern Greek pronunciation. Chrys Caragounis differs slightly from Dr. Buth:

http://www.geocities.com/dbcgreek/ntgreek/pronunciation.htm

http://www.geocities.com/dbcgreek/ntgreek/pronunciation.xls

I don't include "Erasmian" for comparison because you already have that in most NT Greek textbooks, and I no longer use "Erasmian."

There are some slight differences in charts of Modern Greek pronunciation - e.g., some say that "ou" is like "boot" and others say it's like "put"; some say that omicron and omega are short "o" as in "shot," and others give it a longer sound, like the "o" in "ore."

Every Greek Orthodox Church I've visited uses the Modern Greek pronunciation for reading the NT and the Liturgy and prayers, even though those were written in an older form of Greek (Koinê or Byzantine) and likely had a few pronunciation differences (e.g., if eta and upsilon were pronounced the same in NT times, as they are today, there would be no audible distinction between "we/us" and "you" (plural) - i.e., the first- and second-person plural pronouns. Note that the "rough breathing" (i.e., the Erasmian "h" sound before some initial vowels and diphthongs) had stopped being pronounced by NT times.

You can read Dr. Buth's paper on ancient/Koinê Greek pronunciation here:

http://www.biblicalulpan.com/PDF%20Files/PRONSYS1%202005.pdf

If you have some money, you can buy Dr. Caragounis's huge book:

http://www.amazon.com/Development-Greek-New-Testament-Transmission/dp/080103230X/

(Some think he's a bit too dogmatic about his claims.)

You can read Dr. Caragounis's explanation of the flaws of "Erasmian" pronunciation here:

http://www.bsw.org/?l=72081&a=Art06.html

I suspect his book contains an update and refinement and/or expansion of this material.

Another great resource: http://www.biblicalgreek.org/links/pronunciation.php

 

[Emmanuel-A]

Hello all,

I'm taking Greek in college and I have come to the realization that Greek prayers and Greek liturgics are pronounced much differently from how I am being taught. I think we are using Erasmus' pronunciation. In Church do you use the modern Greek pronunciation? Perhaps this is somewhat akin to Latin. In Church we use ecclesiastical Latin, which is pronounced almost exactly like Italian, but in classics courses most professors use "classical" pronunciation, which is apparently the construct of 19th century German scholars.

I know H is pronounced 'ee' rather than 'ay'. One of my professors told me that Greeks pronounce B as 'veta' and Gamma as 'yamma' and Upsilon as 'eepsilon'. Is this what is used in Church? What other differences should I be aware of?

It's funny because I studied ancient greek in high school and knew only the erasmian pronunciation. So the first time I attended Divine Liturgy a few years later in a Melkite Church, I thought the clergy could not pronounce Greek properly because of their lebanese accent.
I was told later about the "iotakismos" which is the proper way to pronounce Greek (pronouce η, υ, ει, etc, like iotas).

 

[KATHXOYMENOC]

FYI - You'll need the free TekniaGreek font to read my charts:

http://www.teknia.com/index.php?page=tekniagreek

 

[Servus Iesu]

It's funny because I studied ancient greek in high school and knew only the erasmian pronunciation. So the first time I attended Divine Liturgy a few years later in a Melkite Church, I thought the clergy could not pronounce Greek properly because of their lebanese accent.
I was told later about the "iotakismos" which is the proper way to pronounce Greek (pronouce η, υ, ει, etc, like iotas).

The professor I mentioned took modern Greek as well and told me that virtually everything (hyperbole) is 'ee'.

The truth is that probably no one knows how the ancients actually pronounced Greek. We don't know how the Romans actually pronounced Latin, but that doesn't stop scholars from making dogmatic statements about it.

 

[Philothei]

Although we do not know excatly how Ancient Greek pronounced we the Greeks do not elongate our vowels. We use the modern pronunciation for reading ancient Greek and the Hellenistic used in the Liturgy. We do not say ko-e-ne but kini or (kene).... oi makes the sound i as in "picky"
: this sihow it goes:

Mediterranean world of Koine Greek:
[ ει ] was pronounced the same as [ ι ].​

[

αι ] was pronounced the same as [ ε ].

[ ​

​

ω ] was pronounced the same as [ ο ].
[ οι ] was pronounced the same as [ υ ].


Basically this is the differences between erasmian and modern.

Many Ancient Greek scholars do not agree with the Erasmian because it is just a theory. We do not know for sure. Anyhow that is how you will read the liturgy, and that is how it is going to sound.



i.e. Pater umwn o en toiV ouranoiV

it would be "Pater imon o en tis uranis..."


Hope that helps,
Philothei

​

 

[nutroll]

I pronounce Greek like a monkey with a speech impediment.

 

[KATHXOYMENOC]

"Erasmian" facilitates vocabulary memorization, because every vowel a, e, i, o, u, w - and diphthong - ai, au, ei, eu, hu, oi, ou - has a unique sound - only ou (omicron-upsilon diphthong) and u (upsilon) share the same sound, as well as eu (epsilon-upsilon) and hu (eta-upsilon), IIRC. (And, iota subscript is pronounced just like the unsubscripted form.) That is its primary value. The downside, though, is if you go to a Greek church, or go to Greece, and talk "Erasmian," you will be labeled a varvaros - or a moros.

And, from what I've read, in Modern Greek while technically gamma before an "ee" or "eh" sound is pronounced like our "y," I have heard some people give it more of a "gh" sound - e.g., eh-ghe-neh-to, instead of eh-yeh-neh-to. I think Spiros Zodhiates, a Cypriot, does this at times on his Greek NT CDs using the Modern Greek pronunciation.

 

[Shubunkin]

I pronounce Greek like a monkey with a speech impediment.

I am sure that would be the case with me, too.