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How do I know who is a schismatic?

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by David Cabrera, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    usually that's the Old Calendarist argument.
     
  2. David Cabrera

    David Cabrera Well-Known Member

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    I usually confuse The Old Calendarists, Old Believers, Old Rite, and "True Orthodoxy".
     
  3. TheLostCoin

    TheLostCoin A Lonesome Coin Supporter

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    The Old Calendarists and "True Orthodoxy" went into schism starting in the early 20th century, when the Ecumenical Patriarch introduced a controversial modern calendar.

    The Old Believers and Old Rite Orthodox are a group of Russians who went into schism during the 17th century because the Patriarch of Moscow decided to modernize the Liturgy to be more Greek [he wanted to make it more Ancient, thinking that the Greek Liturgy was older, but it turns out that the Russian Liturgy was actually much, much older in terms of praxis], and wanted get rid of "Western influence" (for there was a significant amount of art coming in from Poland). He went so far as to break into people's homes to steal their icons, gouge out the eyes of those icons, and parade those icons around in derision.

    He was a pretty bad Patriarch, and while the Russian Orthodox Church kept his reforms, he was ultimately deposed because of his actions.

    It's sad, because the Old Rite is perfectly Orthodox (obviously) and it's beautiful.


    in recent years, though, the Moscow Patriarch and ROCOR have been generous in allowing the Old Rite to enter back into communion and keep their rites as long as they abandon the heretical ideas that the New Rite is heretical and the Russian Orthodox Church is in apostasy, and some of the wacky ideas that some hold onto (that Peter the Great was the Antichrist when he abolished the Patriarchate of Moscow).

    There's a canonical Old-Rite Church in Erie, PA, and they publish Old Believer prayer books (of which I have one) which are in Slavonic and English, and Old Believer prayer ropes.

    Church of the Nativity
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
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  4. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 sinner profoundly blessed by God

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    Isn’t it “for all intents and purposes?”:sorry:

     
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  5. TheLostCoin

    TheLostCoin A Lonesome Coin Supporter

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    Nah, the purposes are intensive.
     
  6. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Yes she does. But before anyone gets upset, she immigrated to the US and there are no Churches here of the sort she belonged to. Essentially she and her family joined our (canonical Orthodox) Church, and she communes, has her icons blessed, confesses, seeks the priest's blessings, celebrates feasts with us, and so on. Except I think she celebrates Nativity in her home on the old calendar. She has zero bad things to say about our Church. It actually took me years to sort out that she came initially from a schismatic group, and the only hint of it is that she prefers the old calendar - which many Orthodox do, and if our parish happened to be one of those she would have nothing to disagree on.

    We also have Ethiopians who come to our parish. The newer ones don't commune with us (the parents) but have had their children baptized and the children commune and serve in the altar. There is no Church nearby for them.

    I suppose some choose to adapt to what is available. As to their canonical status, that's between them, and Father, and the bishop. But I know Father always follows things as they are supposed to be done. He would know what is necessary, and where to be lenient if there is any such case.
     
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  7. nutroll

    nutroll Veteran

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    You ask the traveler five questions...
    three questions.
    three questions. He who answers the five questions...
    three questions.
    three questions may cross in safety.
    What if you get a question wrong?
    Then you are cast into the Gorge of Eternal Peril.
     
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  8. RobNJ

    RobNJ CF Olde Pharte

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    "What is the air speed velocity, of an unladen swallow?"
     
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  9. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    Old Calendarist = "True/Genuine Orthodoxy, Old Believers = Old Rite
     
  10. Mary of Bethany

    Mary of Bethany Only one thing is needful. Supporter

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    But don't confuse Old Calendarists with being on the Old Calendar.

    Old Calendar is fine - schism over it is not.
     
  11. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    yep, same with the canonical Old Believers
     
  12. TheLostCoin

    TheLostCoin A Lonesome Coin Supporter

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    Depends... is it European or African?
     
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  13. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
     
  14. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 sinner profoundly blessed by God

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    Be extra weary of the Extra-canonical deutero-Coptic pseudo-Cappadocian new old calendarist moderately old believers of the Carpathian Orthodox. And don’t confuse them with the Syro-Nazarene Melkotian Rohirrim New Old Mayan Calendarist movement coming out of southwestern Albania. Very similar but diametrically different.
     
  15. TheLostCoin

    TheLostCoin A Lonesome Coin Supporter

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    But come on, you gotta give the first group props on the aesthetics.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 sinner profoundly blessed by God

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    Actually their cassocks are quite unique....

    upload_2019-2-9_21-29-15.jpeg

     
  17. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 sinner profoundly blessed by God

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    I met their Reader. Nice guy for a schismatic. He seemed very logical!

    upload_2019-2-9_21-30-40.jpeg

     
  18. TheLostCoin

    TheLostCoin A Lonesome Coin Supporter

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    I like their monks' and nuns' habit.
     
  19. TheLostCoin

    TheLostCoin A Lonesome Coin Supporter

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    Do all of their readers grow pointy ears?
     
  20. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    It's because of the special hats they wear.
     
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