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How do Catholics try to explain the Glories of Mary to a protestant?

RileyG

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How do you know Mary prays for you? Did Jesus or the Apostles tell you she does?
Per the book of revelation 5:8 and the writings of the Church fathers, those in heaven are very much alive in Christ and can pray for us.

Our God is a God of the living.
 
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ozso

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I will say this.

Kneeling and bowing can be sign of reverence.

There is not a single Catholic priest who offered THE SACRIFICE of the Mass TO The Virgin Mary.

The sacrifice of the Mass is always offered to God.

From the outside looking in, and for those who don’t venerate Saints, I can see how that may be confusing.
Exactly, from the outside looking in it is VERY confusing. And appears to be so close to worship it's quite difficult not to see it as such.
 
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RileyG

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Exactly, from the outside looking in it is VERY confusing. And appears to be so close to worship it's quite difficult not to see it as such.
Yes, I can ABSOLUTELY understand your confusion.

It appears to be close to worship because that's the Protestant's definition of worship, from what I understand.

To many Protestants, signing, hymns, prayers, and sermons are indeed worship.

From a liturgical perspective, and those who are Catholic (or Orthodox) it's not so.

By the Sacrifice of the Eucharist, I mean the Last Supper and Calvary is re-enacted (NOT re-done over and over) again to the glory of the Father.

Asking someone who is highly venerated to pray for you is NOT worship.

NO ONE would offer a SACRIFICE to the Virgin Mary or any other Saint. Then, the indeed would be blasphemous.

And no, I do not accept the veneration of images and statues of worship.

Remember in the Book of Exodus where God commanded cherubs be built around the ark of the covenant?

No, in that case, no image or statues are being worshipped.
 
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ozso

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Yes, I can ABSOLUTELY understand your confusion.

It appears to be close to worship because that's the Protestant's definition of worship, from what I understand.

To many Protestants, signing, hymns, prayers, and sermons are indeed worship.

From a liturgical perspective, and those who are Catholic (or Orthodox) it's not so.

By the Sacrifice of the Eucharist, I mean the Last Supper and Calvary is re-enacted (NOT re-done over and over) again to the glory of the Father.

Asking someone who is highly venerated to pray for you is NOT worship.

NO ONE would offer a SACRIFICE to the Virgin Mary or any other Saint. Then, the indeed would be blasphemous.

And no, I do not accept the veneration of images and statues of worship.

Remember in the Book of Exodus where God commanded cherubs be built around the ark of the covenant?

No, in that case, no image or statues are being worshipped.
It's the bowing and praying to images of Mary that looks just like idol worship. Even if it's not, that's what it looks like. And images of Mary that look like images of a diety. Even if that's not the intention, that's what it looks like.

CrowningofMaryQueenofHeaven.jpg


Diego_Vel%C3%A1zquez_-_Coronation_of_the_Virgin_-_Prado.jpg
 
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RileyG

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It's the bowing and praying to images of Mary that looks just like idol worship. Even if it's not, that's what it looks like. And images of Mary that look like images of a diety. Even if that's not the intention, that's what it looks like.

CrowningofMaryQueenofHeaven.jpg


Diego_Vel%C3%A1zquez_-_Coronation_of_the_Virgin_-_Prado.jpg
Mary Queen of Heaven and Earth.

She's no deity.

She intercedes for us.

Only God is worthy of worship.

That is OFFICIAL Catholic Church teaching.

AND you're 100% right that many of those images can be misleading to those outside the Church. I will give you that.

As I stated before, prayer (ask) is not the same as worship, and bowing is just a sign of respect. To our 21st century experience, many people are confused by these gestures.
 
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ozso

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She intercedes for us.
What's confusing about that is Paul tells us the Holy Spirit is the one who intercedes for us:

26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God. Romans 8:26-27
 
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David Lamb

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Mary Queen of Heaven and Earth.

She's no deity.

She intercedes for us.

Only God is worthy of worship.

That is OFFICIAL Catholic Church teaching.

AND you're 100% right that many of those images can be misleading to those outside the Church. I will give you that.

As I stated before, prayer (ask) is not the same as worship, and bowing is just a sign of respect. To our 21st century experience, many people are confused by these gestures.
The bible does not teach that Mary is the queen of heaven and earth. Nor did the bible teach or even mention people bowing to Mary as a sign of respect, or praying to her, while she was alive on earth, or now she is in heaven.
 
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RileyG

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The bible does not teach that Mary is the queen of heaven and earth. Nor did the bible teach or even mention people bowing to Mary as a sign of respect, or praying to her, while she was alive on earth, or now she is in heaven.
Praying=ask

As I said before, the Queen mother in the Davidic monarchy was the Queen, and Jesus came to fulfill that role.

Bowing depends on cultures

And no, I do not accept sola scriptura
 
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RileyG

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What's confusing about that is Paul tells us the Holy Spirit is the one who intercedes for us:

26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God. Romans 8:26-27
Why, yes.
do you ask other fellow Christians to pray for you?

I fail to see how that is different.
 
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David Lamb

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Praying=ask

As I said before, the Queen mother in the Davidic monarchy was the Queen, and Jesus came to fulfill that role.

Bowing depends on cultures

And no, I do not accept sola scriptura
I think you have nailed the reason for our difference on this matter, that you do not accept God's word (Scripture) as our final authority for faith and practice, and I do. Thanks for your replies though.
 
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RileyG

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I think you have nailed the reason for our difference on this matter, that you do not accept God's word (Scripture) as our final authority for faith and practice, and I do. Thanks for your replies though.
You're most welcome.

And, just for the record, I hold Scripture in VERY high regard and absolutely adore it.

And I meant scripture ONLY, rather not scripture as final authority. If that makes sense.
 
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ozso

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Why, yes.
do you ask other fellow Christians to pray for you?

I fail to see how that is different.
I ask fellow Christians who are alive. Now I know the standard reply to that is Matthew 22:32. But if there's no distinction between the living and the dead, what was the point of the resurrection? Why is it such a big deal that Jesus came back from the dead, since he was already alive in paradise?
 
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RileyG

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I ask fellow Christians who are alive. Now I know the standard reply to that is Matthew 22:32. But if there's no distinction between the living and the dead, what was the point of the resurrection? Why is it such a big deal that Jesus came back from the dead, since he was already alive in paradise?
Physical death is (theologically) unnatural, and was never supposed to occur. So at the end of time, when are bodies are finally reunited with our souls, we will be "complete" with God forever.

Jesus's resurrection show he indeed destroyed (physical) death once and for all.

Anyway, the Saints in heaven are (spiritually) alive but (physically) dead.
 
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