how do adventists view of the trinity?

masmpg said:

I totally agree with you. Despite the argument about the "trinity" being the "Godhead" the real argument the SDA denomination had was the nature of Christ. Walter martin branded us a cult just because we believe that Jesus took the nature of man after the fall, and was fully human and had no advantage over us. The questions on doctrine book, was a curse to the denomination, and has been a curse ever since as we watch church leaders compromise at every step of the way.

The trinity argument boils down to minute hair splitting definitions which are not very uplifting, especially when we argue among ourselves over it. Satan gets the upper hand when that happens. This point of contention will cause great opportunities to slip by. We SDA's on this site can be a great light in the darkness if we would practice what the disciples did during the ten days before the former rain was poured out during pentecost. Sister White breaks it down in great detail in her book Acts of the Apostles.

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Regarding to the human nature of Jesus...

Last week I heard on the radio some Catholic announcements that they celebrate the Immaculate Conception on December 8th. It went on to say 'It is a common misunderstanding that the immaculate conception is that of Jesus'. But it actually is about Mary and how she was without the original sin.'

There you have it straight from the horse's mouth.

And This is how Jesus got his sinless human nature from his mother side because Mary was sinless...according to Catholics.

This is what I am trying to get at...

234 The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of Christian faith and life. It is the mystery of God in himself. It is therefore the source of all the other mysteries of faith, the light that enlightens them. It is the most fundamental and essential teaching in the "hierarchy of the truths of faith".---catholic catechism

In another word, all her other teachings including Mary's sinlessness, Jesus' sinless human nature and even Sunday(Lord's day) sanctity are based on or are derived from the trinity mystery.

Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

So what's the greatest mystery of Babylon the 2nd angel message calls us to expose? The catechism tells us.

And what's the abomination written on her forehead?

Daniel 12:11-12
[11] And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. [12] Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. …

We know 508AD is the starting point for both 1290 years and 1335 years when the trinitarians started their campaign to eradicate the non-trinitarians. This is when the abomination of desolation set up (EGW explained this to be the pagan standard is set up on the holy ground) ...until 1843.

What happened in 1843? That was when our pioneers preached the 1st angel's message without the pollution of the trinitarian mystery of Babylon.

Does this make sense?

Hadn't seen it presented that way Overcomer... I like it!

overcomer said:

Regarding to the human nature of Jesus...

Last week I heard on the radio some Catholic announcements that they celebrate the Immaculate Conception on December 8th. It went on to say 'It is a common misunderstanding that the immaculate conception is that of Jesus'. But it actually is about Mary and how she was without the original sin.'

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I was raised catholic and attended catechism weekly for years. They definitely believe the catechism as the inspired word of the church over the bible. There are many other interesting doctrines that negate the sinless divine human nature of Jesus. The immaculate conception is the epitome of the catholic belief on the trinity.

If you want to check out an interesting thread go to the Christian history forum and look for the thread about why Martin Luther was excommunicated. I quoted about 20 or so reasons from the NCR web site. Right from the horses mouth. They tried to close the thread, but I appealed and the moderator edited what they did not agree with and re-opened it. It gets into some easy to explain issues.

Does this make sense?[/QUOTE]

Even though I don't regard the trinity as that important, it makes a lot of sense. All of us have our diverse gifts, some the hand some the foot. . . The study of my life has been salvation, justification, sanctification, conversion, perfection, sinnlessness for the past 30 years.

masmpg said:

Even though I don't regard the trinity as that important, it makes a lot of sense. All of us have our diverse gifts, some the hand some the foot. . . The study of my life has been salvation, justification, sanctification, conversion, perfection, sinnlessness for the past 30 years.

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No problem. I love all truths. Putting into practice is what I'm working on...and that's what really counts. It has not been easy.

That's what makes indulgences so popular!

antletems said:

Where do you get 3 different beings from?

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How do you get mist, ice, and water and yet they are all H2O....

overcomer said:

Regarding to the human nature of Jesus...

Last week I heard on the radio some Catholic announcements that they celebrate the Immaculate Conception on December 8th. It went on to say 'It is a common misunderstanding that the immaculate conception is that of Jesus'. But it actually is about Mary and how she was without the original sin.'

There you have it straight from the horse's mouth.

And This is how Jesus got his sinless human nature from his mother side because Mary was sinless...according to Catholics.

This is what I am trying to get at...

234 The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of Christian faith and life. It is the mystery of God in himself. It is therefore the source of all the other mysteries of faith, the light that enlightens them. It is the most fundamental and essential teaching in the "hierarchy of the truths of faith".---catholic catechism

In another word, all her other teachings including Mary's sinlessness, Jesus' sinless human nature and even Sunday(Lord's day) sanctity are based on or are derived from the trinity mystery.

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The inspiration of the Bible, the creation of Earth, the death, resurrection and bodily resurrection and ascension of Christ into heaven - his role in haven as our High Priest - are all based on the fact of the Trinity - the Godhead,, who God is...

Your argument is that if some Christian church also has a doctrinal error and yet still admits to the truth that all their theology "teaching about God" is based on who God is - -must mean that "who God is" (Trinity or not) is also the error that they hold. And that is not logical



It has emotional "effect" when you leave out this key detail - but still is not logical

in Christ,

Bob

BobRyan said:

The inspiration of the Bible, the creation of Earth, the death, resurrection and bodily resurrection and ascension of Christ into heaven - his role in haven as our High Priest - are all based on the fact of the Trinity - the Godhead,, who God is...

Your argument is that if some Christian church also has a doctrinal error and yet still admits to the truth that all their theology "teaching about God" is based on who God is - -must mean that "who God is" (Trinity or not) is also the error that they hold. And that is not logical



It has emotional "effect" when you leave out this key detail - but still is not logical

in Christ,

Bob

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I think the issue is equality, not whether there are 3 parts to the Godhead... we can all agree on that.

BobRyan said:

The inspiration of the Bible, the creation of Earth, the death, resurrection and bodily resurrection and ascension of Christ into heaven - his role in haven as our High Priest - are all based on the fact of the Trinity - the Godhead,, who God is...

Your argument is that if some Christian church also has a doctrinal error and yet still admits to the truth that all their theology "teaching about God" is based on who God is - -must mean that "who God is" (Trinity or not) is also the error that they hold. And that is not logical



It has emotional "effect" when you leave out this key detail - but still is not logical

in Christ,

Bob

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None of these 'events', creation, salvation, baptism, worship... had anything to do with trinity. In fact the Bible and spirit of prophecy point to two beings st these events.

overcomer said:

None of these 'events', creation, salvation, baptism, worship... had anything to do with trinity. .

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If you think God was not involved in those events - then you have an entirely different understanding of them - than I do.

If you admit that God was key to each one of them - then once you admit to the Bible fact of "One God" Deut 6:5 in "Three Persons" Matthew 28:27 then it is pretty hard to separate the two.

EastCoastRemnant said:

I think the issue is equality, not whether there are 3 parts to the Godhead... we can all agree on that.

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One God Deut 6:5 in Three Persons Matthew 28:27 does not require that all three of them have the same role, or that there is no hierarchy in function.

BobRyan said:

If you think God was not involved in those events - then you have an entirely different understanding of them - than I do.

If you admit that God was key to each one of them - then once you admit to the Bible fact of "One God" Deut 6:5 in "Three Persons" Matthew 28:27 then it is pretty hard to separate the two.

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Matt 28:27 says nothing about these three are 3 parts of one deity.

Deuteronomy 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the Lord he is God; there is none else beside him.

I don't know in any language 'he/him' actually refers to three people.

Exodus 20:2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

I also don't know in any language 'me' refers to 3 persons.

BobRyan said:

One God Deut 6:5 in Three Persons Matthew 28:27 does not require that all three of them have the same role, or that there is no hierarchy in function.

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Also in authority and power...
God the Father begat the Son and the Spirit... God the Father is Supreme and in control... even Jesus admits this over and over in scripture.

The problem I have with the "trinity" doctrine is 1) it is a RC dogma that is inspired by the originator of all dissension and has been foisted upon all Christianity as unquestionable truth (Nicene Creed), much like the Sunday issue, edicts of Roman councils 2) it lessens the familial relationship between the Father and Son that shows us the example of headship both in the home as well as the church. The 3 co-equal formulae leads to the mess we have today within most marriages... contention for control.

After all, who was it that wanted to be equal with the Father?... not Jesus.

EastCoastRemnant said:

Also in authority and power...
God the Father begat the Son and the Spirit... God the Father is Supreme and in control... even Jesus admits this over and over in scripture.

The problem I have with the "trinity" doctrine is 1) it is a RC dogma that is inspired by the originator of all dissension and has been foisted upon all Christianity as unquestionable truth (Nicene Creed), much like the Sunday issue, edicts of Roman councils 2) it lessens the familial relationship between the Father and Son that shows us the example of headship both in the home as well as the church. The 3 co-equal formulae leads to the mess we have today within most marriages... contention for control.

After all, who was it that wanted to be equal with the Father?... not Jesus.

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I think she agrees with you.

The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of Christian faith and life. It is the mystery of God in himself. It is therefore the source of all the other mysteries of faith, the light that enlightens them. It is the most fundamental and essential teaching in the "hierarchy of the truths of faith" ---Catechism of the Catholic Church - The Father

EastCoastRemnant said:

God the Father begat the Son and the Spirit... .

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I don't know of any text that say the Father begat the third person of the Godhead.

And apart from the incarnation of Christ - there is no text that says the Father begat the 2nd person of the Godhead.

Humans and other species have the concept - but God is a order of being the ontologically - by definition is eternal "from eternity" to eternity "from everlasting to everlasting" - from the days of eternity.

BobRyan said:

I don't know of any text that say the Father begat the third person of the Godhead.

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Matthew 12:28
But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

I won't c&p the multitude of similar scripture showing the Spirit is of God... of being the possesive marker showing headship/seniority even Fatherhood.

And apart from the incarnation of Christ - there is no text that says the Father begat the 2nd person of the Godhead.

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John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Acts 13:33
God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

1 John 4:9
In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

Humans and other species have the concept - but God is a order of being the ontologically - by definition is eternal "from eternity" to eternity "from everlasting to everlasting" - from the days of eternity.

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I have no problem squaring the above with the understanding of being "begotten" of the Father.

God is from everlasting to everlasting. The son being begotten of the father certain had a beginning.

overcomer said:

I think she agrees with you.

The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of Christian faith and life. It is the mystery of God in himself. It is therefore the source of all the other mysteries of faith, the light that enlightens them. It is the most fundamental and essential teaching in the "hierarchy of the truths of faith" ---Catechism of the Catholic Church - The Father

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Hardly... the heirarchy "she" is referring to is the fundamental and essentail teachingss, the trinity being the top of that list. Nothing to do with the relationship between the Father and Son.

EastCoastRemnant said:

Hardly... the heirarchy "she" is referring to is the fundamental and essentail teachingss, the trinity being the top of that list. Nothing to do with the relationship between the Father and Son.

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Oh I was referring to her statement that the trinity mystery is the foundation of all her false teachings.

The denial of the hierarchy of authority between the father and Jesus is the root of feminism, women ordination...

overcomer said:

God is from everlasting to everlasting. The son being begotten of the father certain had a beginning.

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"Beginning" is a function of Time - which God created.
If the Son was begotten outside of time, "beginning" is meaningless.