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how did you pay for College?

Discussion in 'Singles (Only*)' started by historyincognito, Apr 17, 2015.

  1. SnowyMacie

    SnowyMacie Well-Known Member

    +5,932
    United States
    Anglican
    In Relationship
    Welcome to the world of being a millennial, where your dreams are made up and your degree doesn't matter. The number of people in my generation with college degrees unemployed or underemployed is astronomically high, If anything our requirements for getting into college are too lose, we have too many college students nowadays as it is. I've heard people call the modern Bachelor's degree the new HS Diploma, and getting a Master's degree as the new Bachelor's. The world you describe is exactly what it's like as a new entry to the job market. On top that, college tuition is basically undergoing hyperinflation, and so no one can afford to pay for their education which has turned out to be pointless. STEM fields, apparently the only "worthwhile" degree anymore, aren't for everyone...I could barely pass trigonometry, even with my engineer father helping me. Even then, your chances of getting a job in your field after graduation even an "entry level" position, especially with no experience. You really are competing against the masses for nearly every job out there. I never really bought into capitalism, but actually participating in it like this is slowly causing me to despise it.
     
  2. Rhovanion

    Rhovanion Queen of Pentacles

    382
    +26
    Atheist
    Single
    I haven't had to pay for college since it's free here, and I'm thankful it is. :)
     
  3. Fenwick

    Fenwick ☩ Broman Catholic ☩

    +10,039
    United States
    Catholic
    Single
    US-Others
    #jealous.
     
  4. pittsflyer

    pittsflyer Guest

    +0
    The STEM degrees are what I was mostly referring too, once you get an engineering or medical degree form a top tier school your basically set. But that's a high barrier to entry.

    BUT I don't want the govt telling me what I can and cant do, I was accepted to a top tier school as a science experiment with ok high school record and I graduated where 75% had failed out. But it was up to the school to accept me not the govt.

    The calc classes and physics, etc ARE the barriers to entry, they are natural barriers but im not against some artificial barriers if they are needed as well. It can be a head ach but the more people keep poping out kids the more they are needed so that there is always hope that if you work your rear end off you can make it. It leaves things in YOUR hands and everyone is not reduced to some socialist standard of living in a caste system.

     
  5. SnowyMacie

    SnowyMacie Well-Known Member

    +5,932
    United States
    Anglican
    In Relationship
    Yes, that's a giant IF.

    I never said anything about the government deciding who can and who cannot go to school.

    My problem with STEM degree isn't that they have barriers to entry, it's that they are becoming overvalued in society. They are important to keep society functioning and advancing, but there's so much more to the human experience than that.

    Meanwhile our society is becoming, if not already became, one where the only thing that matters is how much money is made from things (including people) for people who already have too much. That kind of society promotes greed, dehumanization, and selfishness...three things I will never support. I never really bought into the idea that the primary purpose of business should be to maximize profits, and now that I've seen the employee side of the business world and financially independent, I completely disagree with it.
     
  6. Fenwick

    Fenwick ☩ Broman Catholic ☩

    +10,039
    United States
    Catholic
    Single
    US-Others
    Yup, us humanities folk are chopped liver. :|
     
  7. SnowyMacie

    SnowyMacie Well-Known Member

    +5,932
    United States
    Anglican
    In Relationship
    Unless you actually plan to do something with it like me.
     
  8. Fenwick

    Fenwick ☩ Broman Catholic ☩

    +10,039
    United States
    Catholic
    Single
    US-Others
    Right. Here's hoping I have my chance, but I'm two years out at this point so I have time.
     
  9. Blue Wren

    Blue Wren Well-Known Member

    +1,224
    Christian
    In Relationship
    It is very expensive, to live in Sweden, yes. I wrote about that, in my previous post.

    I'm in the US, for this year. Everyone complains about the costs of living, in NYC, Seattle and San Francisco, but for me, I found more affordable things in these cities. :D I buy laptops, ipads, clothes, ect, ect, ect, here, in the US. There are some things, that you can do to curb some expenses, as a student, in Sweden.

    It is still much less for my degree in Sweden, even with the cost of living, than in the US. In the US, some of the private medical schools, are $85,0000 per year, with living expenses (Georgetown, as example). It takes longer, to complete your degree, in the US.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2015
  10. Texas101

    Texas101 Somewhere in the continuum

    189
    +33
    Non-Denom
    Single
    I pursued a STEM education (Electrical Engineering and Physics), paid for it out of my pocket thus avoiding student debt. It wasn't easy and took longer than typical. My STEM training also wasn't the easiest to obtain. Because a Stem education is more difficult to acquire than those in less rigorous fields which leads to higher than average compensation and lower unemployment rates. Basic supply and demand.

    For those who live in areas where your education is free or low cost remember it may be free to you because some else is paying for it. There is no such thing as a free ride.

    There is a growing need for people to fill what had been deemed blue collar jobs that pay well. You maybe under employed now so consider changing career paths to get a pay check.

    I've changed careers 4 times and recently didn't again in my late 40's. I did it to stay ahead of the economic waves. Like a surfer before the wave you're on runs out start looking for the next one.

    Unfortunately in the US we've bought into the idea that one has to have a degree to succeed. This is why a college degree carries less weight than it use to. There is some truth to the idea that a BA is like a HS diploma. It's also why many millennials are don't have the same opportunities enjoyed by previous generations.
     
  11. keith99

    keith99 sola dosis facit venenum

    +5,681
    Atheist
    Single
    The problem with humanities degrees is the lack of KNOWN hurdle classes. It is possible to get those degrees without any really difficult classes. It is also possible to get a humanities major and have some classes that are major killers.

    The problem is the potential employer has no reasonable guarantee, and to make it worse IF a student did make it through by kissing up and taking the easiest classes that student would be apt to ace an interview.

    Proving yourself for an entry level position thus becomes a major problem.
     
  12. Fenwick

    Fenwick ☩ Broman Catholic ☩

    +10,039
    United States
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    US-Others
    Sure, I can see that.

    I think the problem is socially how we assign value though. If difficult classes are the only means by which we assess a degree's worth, rather than how beneficial a degree can be to the economy, the individual, and society, then we're consigning quite a few people to a place of irrelevance.
     
  13. pittsflyer

    pittsflyer Guest

    +0
    You have good points on a society scale but what about YOU. At the end of the day you need enough money for a decent car, place to live, food, etc. Making philosophical arguments about such things will not change reality and that is really the issue.

    STEM degrees are valued because a first world economy needs roads, bridges, earth quake/flood resistant high rise buildings, fighter planes, tanks, cars, medicines, scientific instruments, advanced materials, tools, etc, etc. Art and design is also important and I think should be electives for STEM degrees (or even minors), I mean somewhere someone had to sketch a concept out on a blank piece of paper.

    As far as the humanities they are needed to an extent but not to the extent that people are getting the degrees. We need people to dig up dinosaur bones and translate ancient cultures languages. As far as modern humanities I personally don't want to be social engineered. I don't want people who are paid to sit around and think up clever legislation to get me to behave a certain way out of fear, we already have too much of that going on. Also the really smart people in a society will create unforeseen consequences for the social engineers because we don't want to be controlled (beyond a basic set of reasonable laws, murder, theft, etc). However some of the social engineering is allowing for legalized theft in order to support certain groups or solicit certain responses. Again which can create significant unforeseen consequences (up to and including civil war if it gets too far out of hand).

    Also if you think STEM degrees are over valued just look at professional athletes, some of their pay checks make me look like I have one foot in the homeless shelter.

     
  14. pittsflyer

    pittsflyer Guest

    +0
    I have heard the problem with Sweden is the real estate costs which are sky high and will still be there with their high price tags long after you are done with school. That is the problem with those countries.

    yea having my $100 student loan payment kinda sucks but its nothing compared to having to spend a fortune on housing like you do in Sweden.

    Its like saying man our apples are like half the price here while your rent is 3 times as expensive leaving you flat broke just to have a roof over your head. Never mind things like nice decks with a hot tub.

    The whole point of having the education is to improve your quality of life but if everything else in the society is so expensive that all you can afford after getting your degree is a 1200 sq ft low ceiling bungalow driving a compact car then did you really gain anything? You got a free education but so what?

    The education is a means to an end not the end itself.

     
  15. pittsflyer

    pittsflyer Guest

    +0
    The scary thing is the wave durations are getting shorter and shorter and reinventing yourself and changing careers takes time money and energy.

    I am desperately trying to get all of my high ticket things in life paid for so that I can ride the wave a little further and not worry about taking a pay hit.

    If you have a nice paid for home, car and what ever else you want you are under less pressure to HAVE to re-invent yourself constantly.

    I have a chemical engineering degree and a PE and am about 80% complete with a EE degree as oil and gas is tanking. These are not easy degrees to get lol.

    But then again I have never had to sling sheet rock or pour concrete (unless it was my own project) and work with a bunch of foul mouthed neandrithals measuring each other private parts every day on the job. So that is worth its weight in gold.

     
  16. SnowyMacie

    SnowyMacie Well-Known Member

    +5,932
    United States
    Anglican
    In Relationship
    We definitely had hurdle classes in my psychology program. Then again, ours actually was program to prepare you for a graduate psychology program. We took classes on psychiatry, statistics, and pyschophysiology, and not "psychology of personality" or "Emotions". There's PSYCHology and there's psychOLOGY.
     
  17. keith99

    keith99 sola dosis facit venenum

    +5,681
    Atheist
    Single
    Many programs do have hurdle classes. The problem is for those where their Bachelors degree is their terminal degree. Potential employers cannot be sure there were any such classes.

    Where I went undergrad a PE major was not an easy major. It was included comparative anatomy, the hurdle class for pre med students. If you ended up outside that field employers had little assurance that you had taken any hard classes.

    I happened to attend a small and good school and to not have had that problem at all as I was a Geophysics major which included hurdle classes all over the map. But pure humanities people at least had a little because of the schools name. Not so if one has a degree from the Cal State system (Not to be confused with the University of California system).

    Ironically what many consider the hurdle classes I considered the coasting classes. Calculus isn't all that difficult.
     
  18. pittsflyer

    pittsflyer Guest

    +0
    Calc 2 and 3 were not exactly coasting classes. They were not hurdle classes but they were not easy.

     
  19. blackribbon

    blackribbon Not a newbie

    +6,557
    Christian
    Ever read an owner's manual or an assembly guide. I would suggest that for engineer types that maybe "technical writing" class might merit classification as a "hurtle" class....not to mention, any basic composition class.

    If you are naturally talented at the math and scientists, it is easy to snub your nose at someone who has communication as their talent...or marketing...but try to exist without them.
     
  20. pittsflyer

    pittsflyer Guest

    +0
    Almost all engineers have to take technical writing, for most of us its not fun but certainly not a hurdle class. All technical manuals I know of are written by engineers, machinists, mechanics or other technical people. Usually the person who draws the short straw lol.

    Marketing can be valuable such as logo design, brand recognition, company name (Exxon spent over a million dollars coming up with the name exxon, it literally has no meaning in any language or culture in the world, that would have been a fun project as a linguist). I have dabbled in logo design for my own resume and sort of branding myself.

    The difference is these sorts of things don't require 4 years in school to learn. A lot of logos were likely designed by the business owners who back in the day had a 3rd grade education.

    My philosophy is if a company or product needs HEAVY marketing it is because the product does not sell itself and perhaps is not a very good product. Granted some marketing and branding will always be required but if its over the top the owner might want to consider another product that sells easier.

    All that being said there is not a lot of ongoing demand for things like that and you certainly don't need 4 years of full time schooling to do it.

     
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