LDS How did the Mormon Jesus get his Exaltation?

[Jane_Doe]

At the same time you say that Jesus is the product of procreation between God and the heavenly mother.

Jesus Christ is the Son of the Father (and LDS believe Heavenly Mother too). But that does not mean He was "born" in the sense that He didn't exist one moment and then popped out a birth canal and existed. No no. Christ has already existed and there isn't any birth canal being involved.

 

[mmksparbud]

Jesus Christ is the Son of the Father (and LDS believe Heavenly Mother too). But that does not mean He was "born" in the sense that He didn't exist one moment and then popped out a birth canal and existed. No no. Christ has already existed and there isn't any birth canal being involved.

This is what I mean----He always existed--but He is the product of the heavenly Father and the heavenly mother---You want it both ways so you can say "We believe what you do"---but that little twist is not what we believe and you try to downplay that.

 

[Jane_Doe]

This is what I mean----He always existed--but He is the product of the heavenly Father and the heavenly mother---You want it both ways so you can say "We believe what you do"---but that little twist is not what we believe and you try to downplay that.

You're looking an this through an ex nihilio lens, and hence your confusion. LDS don't believe in ex nihilio. For LDS, saying that Christ is the Son of the Father does not mean Christ as any point didn't exist.

 

[mmksparbud]

You're looking an this through an ex nihilio lens, and hence your confusion. LDS don't believe in ex nihilio. For LDS, saying that Christ is the Son of the Father does not mean Christ as any point didn't exist.

I am not the one that is confused.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I am not the one that is confused.

I am simply trying to explain LDS beliefs accurately. You can believe whatever you want for Truth.

 

[Rescued One]

He always had the righteous attributes of God but according to the BIBLE he was given all power, he was given judgement, he was made the author of eternal life, he was anointed God by his God, he obtained a glorified resurrected body and then he stand down on the right hand of God.

But then we go back to God's time line being way different than our own, so yes Jesus was always God.

And Mormons claim we are too. Mormons say we are the same species and come to earth unable to sin until age eight.

 

[Rescued One]

At the same time you say that Jesus is the product of procreation between God and the heavenly mother.

Mormonism:
Mary is the daughter of "Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother." Everyone has an earthly mother and father as well as a "Heavenly Father and Mother," except Jesus had no earthly father.

 

[Rescued One]

This is what I mean----He always existed--but He is the product of the heavenly Father and the heavenly mother---You want it both ways so you can say "We believe what you do"---but that little twist is not what we believe and you try to downplay that.

You hit the nail on the head.

 

[Rescued One]

mmsparbud, let me explain.
Mormonism:
Everyone always existed because we are made of eternal matter called intelligences. That matter is used to create spirit children. The spirit children are raised in pre-motality and those who followed Satan were cast out and will never experience mortality or have physical bodies. They failed to obey (did not keep their first estate). The spirit children who chose to follow Jesus will be allowed to come to earth and gain a physical body. Now they are challenged to keep their second estate (mortality) by faith and "obedience to the laws and ordinances if the gospel."

As to you brethren, I feel as Peter expressed himself to the brethren of his day: “… ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood. …” (1 Pet. 2:9.) Of all men in the earth, we are the most honored.
As spirit sons of God, we stood in the great council in the preexistent world and heard the Father present the gospel plan. We heard him say that those who kept their first estate would be added upon, and those who kept their second estate should “have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.” (Abr. 3:26.)
Be Ye Clean That Bear the Vessels of the Lord - Marion G. Romney

 

[Rescued One]

What makes you think she's not?

Why not provide a Conference Talk about her?

 

[Peter1000]

It's got the meat---and Christians on this forum have gone way past the milk stage. A nonbeliever, just coming in from the world, is one thing, he is just starting with nonfat milk--- a full blown Christian who has been one for many years is gnawing on bones.

Well, you must be gnawing the bones of some other gospel, because Paul only gave milk, and that is 75% of the NT. Where are you picking up all your meat?

The rest of the apostles did not give any more than Paul gave, so their words were pretty milky too. Luke tells us in Acts 8:33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. (this is saying: is there anyone who can declare Jesus' generation.) Anyone who can declare how he came about????

The bible is real real sketchy about his life before the NT and especially before the OT, and Jesus's relationship with Elohim his Father. Can you declare Jesus' generation?? Tell us by using the scriptures. Thank you.

 

[Peter1000]

At the same time you say that Jesus is the product of procreation between God and the heavenly mother.

If you see Acts 8:33 it askes who can declare his (Jesus') generation? It means that the NT and the OT does not go into a lot of information about how Jesus came about.

LDS have maintained that his generation had to do with a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother, but the exact details as to how that generation actually took place is not known. This has been my position on that subject since we started chatting 2 years ago, and it has not changed. I have never said that through a procreation activity, Jesus was born as a spirit child of God. I have never said that and never will, because I do not know how that relationship generated Jesus.

Can you declare how Jesus was generated using the NT and OT? Please use the scriptures and let me know about the life of Jesus before and during the OT. Thank you.

 

[mmksparbud]

Well, you must be gnawing the bones of some other gospel, because Paul only gave milk, and that is 75% of the NT. Where are you picking up all your meat?

The rest of the apostles did not give any more than Paul gave, so their words were pretty milky too. Luke tells us in Acts 8:33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. (this is saying: is there anyone who can declare Jesus' generation.) Anyone who can declare how he came about????

The bible is real real sketchy about his life before the NT and especially before the OT, and Jesus's relationship with Elohim his Father. Can you declare Jesus' generation?? Tell us by using the scriptures. Thank you.

I guess that depends on what the LDS call meat. A false gospel, ain't meat---it ain't even milk.

Acts 8:33 is quoting:
Isa_53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
The eunuch was reading the OT --- there are 2 other verses with this kind of wording---

Psa_78:6 That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children:
Psa_145:4 One generation shall praise thy works to another, and shall declare thy mighty acts.
What is it you think Isa 53:8 means??? According to you--"Anyone who can declare how he came about????"---this is what you've been told it means and it is not.
Generation:
dôr dôr
dore, dore
From H1752; properly a revolution of time, that is, an age or generation; also a dwelling: - age, X evermore, generation, [n-]ever, posterity.
dôr
BDB Definition:
1) period, generation, habitation, dwelling
1a) period, age, generation (period of time)
1b) generation (those living during a period)
1c) generation (characterised by quality, condition, class of men)
1d) dwelling-place, habitation
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H1752
495.

The suggestion is this: There being no neuter gender in Hebrew, the word for "generation" is masculine in form; but following English usage we should translate the pronoun "it," not "he.” "Who considered His generation, for it was cut off out of the land of the living.” And so it was; by setting aside female kinship, and reckoning kinship by males only, no place was left to record the unique generation of Christ Jesus, of a woman only. Isaiah, seeing this fact by prophetic vision, marvels that no man "considered" that the cutting off of female kinship from the earth would involve the cutting off of the generation of that One of whom Isaiah himself had previously prophesied (7:14) that He was to be conceived and born of a virgin.
"WHO SHALL DECLARE HIS GENERATION?"

another view:
Generation (dôr) simply means a period of time, in the same way we use the phrases "the life and times of Ronald Reagan" or "the Age of Napoleon." The Hebrew implies the context or milieu of a person's life, the situations and events that occurred during his lifetime, including, as TWOT shows, his "contemporaries." Thus, many modern translations have rendered in his generations as:

» "in his time" (NASB)

» "at that time" (The Living Bible)

» "of his time" (Today's English Version; REB)

» "among the people of his time" (NIV)

» "among his fellow-men (The Modern Language Bible)

» "among his contemporaries" (HCSB)

» "among the men of his day" (MOF)

 

[Peter1000]

I guess that depends on what the LDS call meat. A false gospel, ain't meat---it ain't even milk.

Acts 8:33 is quoting:
Isa_53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
The eunuch was reading the OT --- there are 2 other verses with this kind of wording---

Psa_78:6 That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children:
Psa_145:4 One generation shall praise thy works to another, and shall declare thy mighty acts.
What is it you think Isa 53:8 means??? According to you--"Anyone who can declare how he came about????"---this is what you've been told it means and it is not.
Generation:
dôr dôr
dore, dore
From H1752; properly a revolution of time, that is, an age or generation; also a dwelling: - age, X evermore, generation, [n-]ever, posterity.
dôr
BDB Definition:
1) period, generation, habitation, dwelling
1a) period, age, generation (period of time)
1b) generation (those living during a period)
1c) generation (characterised by quality, condition, class of men)
1d) dwelling-place, habitation
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H1752
495.

The suggestion is this: There being no neuter gender in Hebrew, the word for "generation" is masculine in form; but following English usage we should translate the pronoun "it," not "he.” "Who considered His generation, for it was cut off out of the land of the living.” And so it was; by setting aside female kinship, and reckoning kinship by males only, no place was left to record the unique generation of Christ Jesus, of a woman only. Isaiah, seeing this fact by prophetic vision, marvels that no man "considered" that the cutting off of female kinship from the earth would involve the cutting off of the generation of that One of whom Isaiah himself had previously prophesied (7:14) that He was to be conceived and born of a virgin.
"WHO SHALL DECLARE HIS GENERATION?"

another view:
Generation (dôr) simply means a period of time, in the same way we use the phrases "the life and times of Ronald Reagan" or "the Age of Napoleon." The Hebrew implies the context or milieu of a person's life, the situations and events that occurred during his lifetime, including, as TWOT shows, his "contemporaries." Thus, many modern translations have rendered in his generations as:

» "in his time" (NASB)

» "at that time" (The Living Bible)

» "of his time" (Today's English Version; REB)

» "among the people of his time" (NIV)

» "among his fellow-men (The Modern Language Bible)

» "among his contemporaries" (HCSB)

» "among the men of his day" (MOF)

Again, you are all over the place but have not answered the question. Please use the scriptures to explain the life of Jesus Christ before and during the OT.
That is all. Should be no problem for your Strong concordance.

 

[mmksparbud]

Again, you are all over the place but have not answered the question. Please use the scriptures to explain the life of Jesus Christ before and during the OT.
That is all. Should be no problem for your Strong concordance.

I am not al over the place. I have explained what your out of context quote means---which is the question you asked. Now you want to know not the verse you quoted but about the life of Jesus Christ before and during the OT. Using the bible---read the OT--for He is there from Genesis on---
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

He was with Moses, He is the great I AM---He will be there at the end, read Rev--I can't quote the whole bible, too long. As for during the OT----read it. Too long to quote. Anything not contained there---is not contained anywhere and whoever says so is lying through their teeth. Simple. That's all.

 

[fatboys]

And Mormons claim we are too. Mormons say we are the same species and come to earth unable to sin until age eight.

We are unable to sn because a child does not have the knowledge or understanding of the consequences for the disobedience. Can a child disobey? You get they do. Do they commit transgressions? You bet they do. Are they perfect and can't sin? They are far from perfect but do not hav the knowledge to commit sin. Because of the sacrifice and the love of Christ little children are not responsible for their disobedience in the eyes of God but grouch the atonement Christ offered little children his cleansing blood to pay for those transgressions. Not until they reach a age of understanding which starts around the age of eight do they gave to repent and change their lives.

 

[Rescued One]

We are unable to sn because a child does not have the knowledge or understanding of the consequences for the disobedience. Can a child disobey? You get they do. Do they commit transgressions? You bet they do. Are they perfect and can't sin? They are far from perfect but do not hav the knowledge to commit sin. Because of the sacrifice and the love of Christ little children are not responsible for their disobedience in the eyes of God but grouch the atonement Christ offered little children his cleansing blood to pay for those transgressions. Not until they reach a age of understanding which starts around the age of eight do they gave to repent and change their lives.

He didn't offer sinless children his atoning blood because according to Mormons they are sinless. If they don't understand right from wrong, as you say, he wouldn't offer them something they can't understand. They are incapable of choosing to receive the offer according to your religion.

Transgression is sin. Sin is transgression. Adam and Eve sinned.

 

[Jane_Doe]

He didn't offer sinless children his atoning blood because according to Mormons they are sinless. If they don't understand right from wrong, as you say, he woldn't offer them something they can't understand. They are incapable of choosing to receive the offer according to your religion.

"Informing" practicing Mormons about Mormon beliefs doesn't work very well. Here's actual Mormon docterine on the matter:

"8 Listen to the words of Christ, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Behold, I came into the world not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance; the whole need no physician, but they that are sick; wherefore, little children are whole, for they are not capable of committing sin; wherefore the curse of Adam is taken from them in me, that it hath no power over them; and the law of circumcision is done away in me."
(Context here: Moroni 8)

 

[Rescued One]

"Informing" practicing Mormons about Mormon beliefs doesn't work very well.

I never tell Mormons what they believe! ¿Comprendes?

Here's actual Mormon docterine on the matter:

"8 Listen to the words of Christ, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Behold, I came into the world not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance; the whole need no physician, but they that are sick; wherefore, little children are whole, for they are not capable of committing sin; wherefore the curse of Adam is taken from them in me, that it hath no power over them; and the law of circumcision is done away in me."
(Context here: Moroni 8)

Thanks for sharing the verse that Mormons base their teaching on regarding those less that eight years old. I already had that information. Do you understand that if I quote fatboys, I'm responding to what he posted rather than responding to what is in your Book of Mormon?

 

[Jane_Doe]

I never tell Mormons what they believe!

Post 137 is an example of that exact thing.

Thanks for sharing the verse that Mormons base their teaching on regarding those less that eight years old. I already had that information. Do you understand that if I quote fatboys, I'm responding to what he posted rather than responding to what is in your Book of Mormon?

I was simply providing the information on LDS beliefs in regards to salvation, Christ, and children.