LDS How did the Mormon Jesus get his Exaltation?

[mmksparbud]

History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 408-409
Address of the Prophet--His Testimony Against the Dissenters at Nauvoo.
Address of the Prophet--His Testimony Against the Dissenters at Nauvoo.
President Joseph Smith read the 11th Chap. II Corinthians. My object is to let you know that I am right here on the spot where I intend to stay. I, like Paul, have been in perils, and oftener than anyone in this generation. As Paul boasted, I have suffered more than Paul did. I should be like a fish out of water, if I were out of persecutions. Perhaps my brethren think it requires all this to keep me humble. The Lord has constituted me so curiously that I glory in persecution. I am not nearly so humble as if I were not persecuted. If oppression will make a wise man mad, much more a fool. If they want a beardless boy to whip all the world, I will get on the top of a mountain and crow like a rooster: I shall always beat them. When facts are proved, truth and innocence will prevail at last. My enemies are no philosophers: they think that when they have my spoke under, they will keep me down; but for the fools, I will hold on and fly over them.
God is in the still small voice. In all these affidavits, indictments, it is all of the devil--all corruption. Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days
page 409
of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet. You know my daily walk and conversation. I am in the bosom of a virtuous and good people. How I do love to hear the wolves howl! When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go. For the last three years I have a record of all my acts and proceedings, for I have kept several good, faithful, and efficient clerks in constant employ: they have accompanied me everywhere, and carefully kept my history, and they have written down what I have done, where I have been, and what I have said; therefore my enemies cannot charge me with any day, time, or place, but what I have written testimony to prove my actions; and my enemies cannot prove anything against me. They have got wonderful things in the land of Ham. I think the grand jury have strained at a gnat and swallowed the camel.
A man named Simpson says I made an affidavit against him, &c. Mr. Simpson says I arrested him. I never arrested Mr. Simpson in my life. He says I made an affidavit against him. I never made an affidavit against him in my life. I will prove it in court. I will tell you how it was: Last winter I got ready with my children to go to the farm to kill hogs. Orrin P. Rockwell was going to drive. An Englishman came in and wanted a private conversation with me. I told him I did not want any private conversations. "I demand one of you! " Such a one I am bound to obey anyhow. Said he-"I want a warrant against the man who stabbed Brother Badham. He said it was a man who boarded at Davis'. He said it was Mr. Simpson-it answered his description. I said I had no jurisdiction out of the city. He said-"The man must be arrested, or else he will go away." I told him-"You must go to Squire Wells, Johnson, or Foster." Mr. Lytle stepped up and said-"I am a policeman." I jumped into my carriage, and away I went.
President Joseph Smith read the 11th Chap. II Corinthians. My object is to let you know that I am right here on the spot where I intend to stay. I, like Paul, have been in perils, and oftener than anyone in this generation. As Paul boasted, I have suffered more than Paul did. I should be like a fish out of water, if I were out of persecutions. Perhaps my brethren think it requires all this to keep me humble. The Lord has constituted me so curiously that I glory in persecution. I am not nearly so humble as if I were not persecuted. If oppression will make a wise man mad, much more a fool. If they want a beardless boy to whip all the world, I will get on the top of a mountain and crow like a rooster: I shall always beat them. When facts are proved, truth and innocence will prevail at last. My enemies are no philosophers: they think that when they have my spoke under, they will keep me down; but for the fools, I will hold on and fly over them.

 

[mmksparbud]

According to Oliver B. Huntington, Joseph Smith taught that "The inhabitants of the moon are more of a uniform size than the inhabitants of the earth, being about 6 feet in height.
"They dress very much like the Quaker style and are quite general in style, or fashion of dress.
"They live to be very old; coming generally, near a thousand years.
"This is the description of them as given by Joseph the seer, and he could `See' whatever he asked the father in the name of Jesus to see," (Journal of Oliver B. Huntington, Vol. 3, p. 166; as recorded at the Utah State Historical Society).
Oliver B. Huntington wrote the proceeding statement in 1881. In 1892 he made a similar statement in the Young Woman's Journal, a church publication:
"Astronomers and philosophers have, from time almost immemorial until very recently, asserted that the moon was uninhabited, that it had no atmosphere, etc. But recent discoveries, through the means of powerful telescopes, have given scientists a doubt or two upon the old theory.
"Nearly all the great discoveries of man in the last half century have, in one way or another, either directly or indirectly, contributed to prove Joseph Smith to be a Prophet.
"As far back as 1837, I know that he said the moon was inhabited by men and women the same as this earth, and that they lived to be a greater age than we do, that they lived generally to near the age of 1000 years.
"He described the men as averaging near six feet in height, and dressing quite uniformly in something near the Quaker style.
"In my Patriarchal blessing, given by the father of Joseph the Prophet, in Kirtland, 1937, I was told that I should preach the gospel to the inhabitants of the sea -- to the inhabitants of the moon, even the planet you can now behold with your eyes," (Vol. 3, pp. 263-264).
Mormon author Van Hale, in an effort to defend Joseph Smith's strange teaching says:
"Did Joseph Smith believe in an inhabited moon? From the historical evidence no available the answer must be: Not proven," (How Could a Prophet Believe in Moonmen?; as quoted in Gilbert Scharffs' The Truth About the Godmakers, p. 119).
Despite the previous statement, Van Hale is forced to admit that Joseph Smith believed in moonmen:
"But all things considered, the possibility, or probability, that he did cannot be reasonably denied," (Ibid).
Both Scharffs and Van Hale contend that Joseph Smith should not be held accountable for this particular belief because his contemporaries believed that there was life on the moon, too. Despite these vain attempts to show otherwise, the evidence clearly shows that Joseph Smith believed and taught that there was life on the moon.
What about Smith's successor Brigham Young? Did he have anything to say about this matter? Indeed he did! On July 24, 1870, he made the following statement in a sermon:
"Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening called the moon? ...when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the ignorant of their fellows. So it is in regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain," (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p. 217).
Gilbert Scharffs, in an effort to defend Brigham Young's statement regarding life on the sun points out that Brigham Young said, "Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is," (The Truth About the Godmakers, p. 121; emphasis added). Scharffs conveniently neglects to mention the statements which immediately follow: "Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p. 271; emphasis added).
It should be pointed out that the preceding statement was in the context of a sermon and that Brigham Young considered his sermons to be scripture:
"I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture. Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon and it is as good Scripture as they deserve" (Ibid, p. 95).
The evidence is clear. Joseph Smith was not correct in teaching that there was life on the moon, Oliver Huntington never preached to the inhabitants of the moon, and all scientific evidence points to the fact that there is no life on the sun as Brigham Young claimed.

According to Mormons:
some prophecies that critics claim have failed have actually been fulfilled;
some of Smith's statements have been mischaracterized as "prophecies";
some prophetic statements ascribed to Smith have not been verified as legitimate by either Latter Day Saint or non–Latter Day Saint historians;
some prophecies should be interpreted metaphorically, not literally;
some legitimate prophecies were conditional and did not happen because the conditions precedent to those prophesies were not satisfied;
and some legitimate prophecies remain unfulfilled but are expected to be fulfilled in the future.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Prophecy # 7 - Temple to be Built in Zion, Missouri
This prophecy comes directly from Doctrine & Covenants Section 84, the introduction of which states:
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, September 22 and 23, 1832. HC 1:286-295.
1. A revelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and six elders, as they united their hearts and lifted their voices on high.
2. Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem.
3. Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.
4. Verily, this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.
5. For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house.

Anyone who prophesises the New Jerusalem will be anywhere other than God's holy land in/around present day Israel as promised to Abraham in Genesis 15 is no prophet of God. Just a wishful thinker with an insatiable ego.

 

[mmksparbud]

This is a very long speech that actually starts in John 13---starting from there and reading all the way through to the end of John 17---not one time dies He state that they were ordained as priests or prophets. They were ordained to preach the Word,

Mar 3:14 And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,
Mar 3:15 And to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils:

Act_14:23 And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.
Act_16:4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.
1Ti 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
2Ti_4:22 The Lord Jesus Christ be with thy spirit. Grace be with you. Amen. The second epistle unto Timotheus, ordained the first bishop of the church of the Ephesians, was written from Rome, when Paul was brought before Nero the second time.
Tit_3:15 All that are with me salute thee. Greet them that love us in the faith. Grace be with you all. Amen. It was written to Titus, ordained the first bishop of the church of the Cretians, from Nicopolis of Macedonia.
Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Joh 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
Not one time is a priest or prophet mentioned.

 

[Rescued One]

The church is built on the foundation of the New Testament (apostles) and the Old Testament (prophets), with Jesus as the cornerstone.

The Greater Glory of the New Covenant
7But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there isliberty. 18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

I'm so grateful for answered prayer and that God preserved His word for the sheep.

 

[Peter1000]

The church is built on the foundation of the New Testament (apostles) and the Old Testament (prophets), with Jesus as the cornerstone.

The Greater Glory of the New Covenant
7But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there isliberty. 18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

I'm so grateful for answered prayer and that God preserved His word for the sheep.

Good try. I actually thought of that myself, but then I read of prophets in the NT, so I dismissed that thought.

 

[Rescued One]

Good try. I actually thought of that myself, but then I read of prophets in the NT, so I dismissed that thought.

You called apostles prophets. They weren't.

 

[Peter1000]

You called apostles prophets. They weren't.

Actually they were. But there were other people that were prophets in the NT, and the NT actually says there were prophets, so there were.

 

[Rescued One]

Actually they were. But there were other people that were prophets in the NT, and the NT actually says there were prophets, so there were.

Yes, a prophet is one who teaches truth, but the apostles weren't refered to as prophets.

 

[fatboys]

Yes, a prophet is one who teaches truth, but the apostles weren't refered to as prophets.

Did they receive reveleations from God for the whole of the church? Then they were prophets

 

[Rescued One]

Did they receive reveleations from God for the whole of the church? Then they were prophets

God decides who is a prophet and who isn't. Mormons put a prophet (a false one) at the head of their church. The head of the Christian church is Jesus.

Colossians 1
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Mormonism's lies:

Though we thrill in the knowledge that God continues to guide his church and kingdom, most of what we know today in the form of doctrine has come to us through Joseph Smith. His call initiated the “times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began” (Acts 3:21), a day of restoration that will continue throughout the Millennium. It is called the dispensation of the fulness of times, or the dispensation of the fulness of dispensations. In a revelation to the Prophet in January 1841 dealing with the ordinances of the temple, the Lord stated: “I deign to reveal unto my church things which have been kept hid from before the foundation of the world, things that pertain to the dispensation of the fulness of times” (D&C 124:41)...

President Brigham Young uttered this bold statement: “Joseph Smith holds the keys of this last dispensation, and is now engaged behind the vail in the great work of the last days. I can tell our beloved brother Christians … that no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are—I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation—the keys to rule in the spirit world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion and to the name of Christ. …
Robert L. Millet, JOSEPH SMITH AMONG THE PROPHETS, Ensign, June 1994
Joseph Smith among the Prophets - ensign

 

[Peter1000]

Phoebe Ann says:

WARNING:
Jeremiah 23
This is what the LORD Almighty says: "Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD.

Have you ripped Jeremiah out of your bible yet? Or for that matter Jeremiah is telling us the Lord Almighty says not to listen to any prophets, so have you thrown the entire OT out?

Seriously, do you think that is what the Lord Almighty wants is for us to listen to none of the prophets and He is making His statement through a prophet. How can we know that Jeremiah is true, according to the scripture we shouldn't even be reading this scripture, because it is from a prophet. Why did you quote it?[/QUOTE]

 

[Rescued One]

Phoebe Ann says:

Have you ripped Jeremiah out of your bible yet? Or for that matter Jeremiah is telling us the Lord Almighty says not to listen to any prophets, so have you thrown the entire OT out?

Seriously, do you think that is what the Lord Almighty wants is for us to listen to none of the prophets and He is making His statement through a prophet. How can we know that Jeremiah is true, according to the scripture we shouldn't even be reading this scripture, because it is from a prophet. Why did you quote it?

I didn't say don't listen to any prophet and neither did Jeremiah. Why twist what the Bible actually says?

Matthew 7
15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

Benson Commentary
Zechariah 13:4-5. The prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision — That is, of the extraordinary communication which he pretended to have received, when he uttered a prophecy which he knew to be false. Neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive — The true prophets were wont to wear rough or hairy garments, and therefore the false ones did the same, in order to pass off their impostures; but the words here imply that they should do this no longer. But he shall say, I am no prophet — The name they so much affected before, they shall quite disown. I am a husbandman; man taught me to keep cattle from my youth — Disclaiming all pretensions to the character of a prophet, he shall profess himself to be no other than a plain, ordinary labouring man, employed in husbandry from his youth. Mr. Harmer’s observations on this passage, which he justly parallels with the declaration of Amos 1:14, go to show the incompatibility of such active and laborious employments with the retired and sedentary life of those who were trained up in the schools of the prophets, in order to qualify themselves for that profession.

Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
4. shall be ashamed] Pusey compares Acts 19:18-20.
hath prophesied] Rather, prophesieth, as R. V.

a rough garment] Lit. a cloak of hair: a hairy mantle, R. V. The word for cloak, or cape, is that used for the mantle of Elijah (1 Kings 19:13; 1 Kings 19:19; 2 Kings 2:13-14), “the cape or wrapper, which, with the exception of a strip of skin or leather round his loins, formed, as we have every reason to believe, his sole garment.” Bibl. Dict., Art. Mantle. This cloak or cape was either woven of camels’ hair or was perhaps a sheep’s skin (μηλωτής LXX. Comp. 2 Kings 1:8; Genesis 25:25; Matthew 3:4). It would seem from this passage that it had been worn by succeeding prophets in imitation of Elijah, and so had come to be regarded as the badge of a prophet.
Zechariah 13:4 Commentaries: "Also it will come about in that day that the prophets will each be ashamed of his vision when he prophesies, and they will not put on a hairy robe in order to deceive;

A man who claims to be a prophet, yet spreads lies, is a false prophet.

Jeremiah 23
30Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour. 31Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith. 32Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD.

The font changed and I don't know why.

 

[Peter1000]

Phoebe Ann says,

Prove it. The apostles looked to James for answers, not Peter. Asking someone to feed the sheep doesn't make them the head of the church. Jesus is the head and leads us by His Holy Spirit.

Read this scripture about what Jesus did and it was recorded in the bible:
Important parts highlighted:
Matthew 16:13-19King James Version (KJV)
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

So here is the true leader of the apostles (per Jesus) not me or macpella or JS, but by Jesus Christ personally.

Jesus tells Peter he is blessed and gives Peter the keys of the kingdom of heaven.

Wait a minute you say, Jesus gave Peter the keys of the KOH??? I thought only Jesus had the keys of heaven???

Well, you are now up to date on how Jesus extends his authority from heaven to earth. He gives men on earth that he can trust, his power and authority to administer in the growth and doctrines of the church. He contacts them by revelation, usually through the HS, but sometimes he comes down directly and gives interviews that are very powerful such as the interview he and his Father, standing side by side, gave Stephen, (exactly the same interview that JS received) and the interview that he personally gave Paul, and there were others.

Peter now has the keys to the KOH. Why did Jesus not give these special keys to James?

Just because people went to James doesn't mean anything except they went to James. Did any people go to Peter? Yes. So unless you had read in Matthew that Jesus gave the KOH to Peter, you could not be sure who was the leader.

So do you see now that Peter was chosen by Jesus to lead the church.

Jesus also chose James and John to have leadership roles in the church. It is Peter, James, and John that he took to the Mt. Transfiguration and he took Peter, James, and John to other special events because they were his presidency of the apostles. But Peter was the one he gave the KOH to so we can be sure he was the president. Besides it was Peter who after his resurrection he asked personally to 'feed his sheep', the bible is silent if he said this to any other apostle.

 

[Rescued One]

Phoebe Ann says,


Read this scripture about what Jesus did and it was recorded in the bible:
Important parts highlighted:
Matthew 16:13-19King James Version (KJV)
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

So here is the true leader of the apostles (per Jesus) not me or macpella or JS, but by Jesus Christ personally.

Jesus tells Peter he is blessed and gives Peter the keys of the kingdom of heaven.

Wait a minute you say, Jesus gave Peter the keys of the KOH??? I thought only Jesus had the keys of heaven???

Well, you are now up to date on how Jesus extends his authority from heaven to earth. He gives men on earth that he can trust, his power and authority to administer in the growth and doctrines of the church. He contacts them by revelation, usually through the HS, but sometimes he comes down directly and gives interviews that are very powerful such as the interview he and his Father, standing side by side, gave Stephen, (exactly the same interview that JS received) and the interview that he personally gave Paul, and there were others.

Peter now has the keys to the KOH. Why did Jesus not give these special keys to James?

Just because people went to James doesn't mean anything except they went to James. Did any people go to Peter? Yes. So unless you had read in Matthew that Jesus gave the KOH to Peter, you could not be sure who was the leader.

So do you see now that Peter was chosen by Jesus to lead the church.

Jesus also chose James and John to have leadership roles in the church. It is Peter, James, and John that he took to the Mt. Transfiguration and he took Peter, James, and John to other special events because they were his presidency of the apostles. But Peter was the one he gave the KOH to so we can be sure he was the president. Besides it was Peter who after his resurrection he asked personally to 'feed his sheep', the bible is silent if he said this to any other apostle.

You haven't proven anything.
At this point, Jesus declares that God had revealed this truth to Peter. The word for “Peter,” Petros, means a small stone (John 1:42). Jesus used a play on words here with petra (“on this rock”) which means a foundation boulder, as in Matthew 7:24, 25 when He described the rock upon which the wise man builds his house. Peter himself uses the same imagery in his first epistle: the church is built of numerous small petros “living stones” (1 Peter 2:5) who, like Peter, confess that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, and those confessions of faith are the bedrock of the church.

In addition, the New Testament makes it abundantly clear that Christ is both the foundation (Acts 4:11, 12; 1 Corinthians 3:11) and the head (Ephesians 5:23) of the church. It is a mistake to think that here He is giving either of those roles to Peter. There is a sense in which the apostles played a foundational role in the building of the church (Ephesians 2:20), but the role of primacy is reserved for Christ alone, not assigned to Peter. So, Jesus’ words here are best interpreted as a simple play on words in that a boulder-like truth came from the mouth of one who was called a small stone. And Christ Himself is called the “chief cornerstone” (1 Peter 2:6, 7). The chief cornerstone of any building was that upon which the building was anchored. If Christ declared Himself to be the cornerstone, how could Peter be the rock upon which the church was built? It is more likely that the believers, of which Peter is one, are the stones which make up the church, anchored upon the Cornerstone, “and he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame” (1 Peter 2:6).
What is the rock in Matthew 16:18?

 

[Peter1000]

system error.

 

[Peter1000]

system error.

 

[Peter1000]

="BigDaddy, post: 71965626, member: 231453"]Except there is no "Biblical doctrine" of laying on of hands. God gives the Holy Spirit freely to whom He chooses, regardless of what we humans do. His will, not ours.

The laying on of hands was a doctrine of the church.
Hebrews 6:2King James Version (KJV)
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Acts 2:37-38King James Version (KJV)
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:17-18King James Version (KJV)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money.

Acts 19:5-6King James Version (KJV)
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

As you can see, as per Paul and Peter, the laying on of hands for the gift of the HS was surely a doctrine of the church.

You have said to me that God can give the HS freely as he wishes. Yes he does. It is the HS that witnesses to a person that Jesus is the Christ and turns them from an interested party to a believer.

So how do we reconcile Cornelius having the HS come upon his household without Peter laying his hands on them?
But then in Acts 8 Peter layed his hands on those he was talking to and they received the HS. Why did Paul do the same thing in Acts 19? Why did Peter tell 3,000 people to repent and be baptized and then you can receive the gift of the HS?

The answer is, God gives the gift of the HS temporarily to all interested parties to witness that Jesus is the Christ. If they do not harken unto the HS and reject Jesus Christ, then the HS is withdrawn. If they harken unto the Lord and repent and are baptized, then they can receive the permanent gift of the HS for the rest of their lives. So in the case of Cornelius, the HS rested upon them and they were taught by Peter, Peter would then have done with them as he did with the 3,000 on the day of Pentacost, they were baptized and then Peter layed his hands on their heads to give them the HS, which is other words for the baptism of the spirit.

With the scriptures I have given you, you cannot deny that the laying on of hands was a true doctrine of the NT church.

 

[BigDaddy4]

With the scriptures I have given you, you cannot deny that the laying on of hands was a true doctrine of the NT church.

Actually, I can. The Spirit came upon the 120 in the upper room on Pentacost, to the 3000 on the same day, and to those in the house of Cornelius without any laying on of hands.

In your way, just like your baptism beliefs, you put man in between a believer and God to receive the Holy Spirit. God doesn't need our help to pour out his Spirit or save someone unless he chooses to use someone in that way. His ways are higher than ours.

 

[withwonderingawe]

According to Oliver B. Huntington, Joseph Smith taught that "The inhabitants of the moon are more of a uniform size than the inhabitants of the earth, being about 6 feet in height.
"They dress very much like the Quaker style and are quite general in style, or fashion of dress.
"They live to be very old; coming generally, near a thousand years.
"This is the description of them as given by Joseph the seer, and he could `See' whatever he asked the father in the name of Jesus to see," (Journal of Oliver B. Huntington, Vol. 3, p. 166; as recorded at the Utah State Historical Society).
Oliver B. Huntington wrote the proceeding statement in 1881. In 1892 he made a similar statement in the Young Woman's Journal, a church publication:
"Astronomers and philosophers have, from time almost immemorial until very recently, asserted that the moon was uninhabited, that it had no atmosphere, etc. But recent discoveries, through the means of powerful telescopes, have given scientists a doubt or two upon the old theory.
"Nearly all the great discoveries of man in the last half century have, in one way or another, either directly or indirectly, contributed to prove Joseph Smith to be a Prophet.
"As far back as 1837, I know that he said the moon was inhabited by men and women the same as this earth, and that they lived to be a greater age than we do, that they lived generally to near the age of 1000 years.
"He described the men as averaging near six feet in height, and dressing quite uniformly in something near the Quaker style.
"In my Patriarchal blessing, given by the father of Joseph the Prophet, in Kirtland, 1937, I was told that I should preach the gospel to the inhabitants of the sea -- to the inhabitants of the moon, even the planet you can now behold with your eyes," (Vol. 3, pp. 263-264).
Mormon author Van Hale, in an effort to defend Joseph Smith's strange teaching says:
"Did Joseph Smith believe in an inhabited moon? From the historical evidence no available the answer must be: Not proven," (How Could a Prophet Believe in Moonmen?; as quoted in Gilbert Scharffs' The Truth About the Godmakers, p. 119).
Despite the previous statement, Van Hale is forced to admit that Joseph Smith believed in moonmen:
"But all things considered, the possibility, or probability, that he did cannot be reasonably denied," (Ibid).
Both Scharffs and Van Hale contend that Joseph Smith should not be held accountable for this particular belief because his contemporaries believed that there was life on the moon, too. Despite these vain attempts to show otherwise, the evidence clearly shows that Joseph Smith believed and taught that there was life on the moon.
What about Smith's successor Brigham Young? Did he have anything to say about this matter? Indeed he did! On July 24, 1870, he made the following statement in a sermon:
"Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening called the moon? ...when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the ignorant of their fellows. So it is in regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain," (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p. 217).
Gilbert Scharffs, in an effort to defend Brigham Young's statement regarding life on the sun points out that Brigham Young said, "Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is," (The Truth About the Godmakers, p. 121; emphasis added). Scharffs conveniently neglects to mention the statements which immediately follow: "Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p. 271; emphasis added).
It should be pointed out that the preceding statement was in the context of a sermon and that Brigham Young considered his sermons to be scripture:
"I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture. Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon and it is as good Scripture as they deserve" (Ibid, p. 95).
The evidence is clear. Joseph Smith was not correct in teaching that there was life on the moon, Oliver Huntington never preached to the inhabitants of the moon, and all scientific evidence points to the fact that there is no life on the sun as Brigham Young claimed.

According to Mormons:
some prophecies that critics claim have failed have actually been fulfilled;
some of Smith's statements have been mischaracterized as "prophecies";
some prophetic statements ascribed to Smith have not been verified as legitimate by either Latter Day Saint or non–Latter Day Saint historians;
some prophecies should be interpreted metaphorically, not literally;
some legitimate prophecies were conditional and did not happen because the conditions precedent to those prophesies were not satisfied;
and some legitimate prophecies remain unfulfilled but are expected to be fulfilled in the future.

The quote from Huntington is a third hand sorce, someone told him Joseph said. If you had to take it to court it would not hold up. There is also the possibility that Joseph was joking, everyone else in the room knew it was a joke but that one person took him seriously. There is another story of a group of men sitting around a campfire and they have a leg bone which was found in an Indian mound, joseph tells the story about the man just as any of us tell ghost stories. Most of the men knew it was a ghost story but one or two just had to write it in their journals. ya just cant believe everything everybody wrote as factual.

As for his blessings it is taught that many promises made are for the next life, he would go to preach the gospel to the inhabitants of the moon, or in Mormon speak those inheriting the lowest kingdom. it is felt by some Mormons today that the spirit world and different kingdoms exist on different planets. I dont personally think so but BY seem to believe that the Sun was the celestial kingdom. By inhabitants of the sea it would mean an island somewhere, did he do that I don't know. Now did Huntington understand this, i dont think so he didnt see past his own worldly concepts. He fell for a hoaxes which was printed in the newspapers of the time by some guys who claimed they had a powerful telescope and could see people on the moon. But that can't be put on the head of Joseph Smith sr. Who gave him his blessings.

There is a problem with quoting from the Journal of Discourses. The man who put them together did so on his own. He had his own form of shorthand and it's taken one lady years to learn to decipher it. As she has done so they have discovered this guy took a lot of short cuts, and even adding in his own words. They can compare what he wrote to what others wrote in their journals and they are not the same. Sometimes he left out whole paragraphs. When that happens a person's intent can be skewed.

Went and looked up Oliver, he did go to preach the gospel to the inhabitants of the sea or an island, England and Wales.