How did that "Rocket Man" comment go over ?

[AirPo]

That works good for me too.

Then why whine about it?

 

[AirPo]

Neither do I look at the world in terms of black and white.

The difference between criticizing American policy, which Trump did scathingly in this UN address against Obama's pathetic, wimpish deal with Iran, and bashing America, is believing that the path that America has carved out for the world since its Revolution is is the best hope for humanity.
If you do not know that, do not believe that about America, it is indeed not black and white for you either. It is a mish-mash of indeterminate grays, that has neither a yes or a no, a straight line or a goal.
All of the criticism and none of the hope is all there is left.
I will leave you to that.

No it's not. The first sentence is belied by the rest of the post.

 

[SolomonVII]

When you start defining things in terms of 'good guys' and 'bad guys', that's pretty much exactly what you're doing.

Is it your contention that anyone who sees Rocket man as a very evil man and a bane to humanity is defining the world in black and white?
That is a 'at least the trains were running on time' sort of contention.

What exactly was so pathetic about the deal? What sort of deal should Obama have gone for? How does getting out of the deal benefit?

Well, I guess I would have gone for the kind of deal that did not involve delivering planes full of cash on a Tehran tramack in the dead of the night.

The point is that I too can deliver criticisms of American policy. Ergo, I do not see America and the world as all black and white. Criticizing America is not the same as bashing America. What makes it different is believing in what America has to offer the world, which is great.

What does that even mean? And what right does America have to carve out a path for the rest of the world?

America has offered the world an example of a free people choosing their own destiny and successfully thriving and prospering to the extent that no other country in the world history of oppressive government ever has before.
That is something worthy believing in, and no apologies need there.



There is no 'straight line' when it comes to this sort of thing. The world's just not that simple.[/QUOTE]Like I say, I will leave you to your quagmire of endless shades of gray.

 

[lasthero]

Is it your contention that anyone who sees Rocket man as a very evil man and a bane to humanity is defining the world in black and white?

I think it's overly simplistic way of looking at things, yes. Calling him pure evil certainly doesn't help our understanding of the situation, and just makes dealing with him harder.

That is a 'at least the trains were running on time' sort of contention

Not what that saying comes from, but whatever.

Well, I guess I would have gone for the kind of deal that did not involve delivering planes full of cash on a Tehran tramack in the dead of the night

It was their money.

They complied with the deal, we lifted the sanctions, they got their money back. What else would happen? They comply, and they don't get their money back? What kind of deal would that be? Why would they ever agree to that?

Like I say, I will leave you to your quagmire of endless shades of gray.

Sad to say, but we don't live in a 1950s comic book. The real world is pretty gray.

 

[SolomonVII]

It would have been a ballsy move for Obama to have gotten behind the Green Revolution, even vocally.
That is the kind of Iranian deal that would have been worthwhile and would have made Obama look like something other than a third world lap dog of the Ayatollahs.

 

[SarahsKnight]

Which aren't world leaders. We were talking about insulting individual people but, ok. What did he say about Christians and the bible that was so insulting?

He was not willing to elevate them over other religions or atheistic thinking in so many ways, I am sure, thus some find it an insult. Apparently for some of my brethren the only way to not feel attacked and persecuted for our faith or being treated unfairly is to have more power than everyone who falls outside our faith. Not that I am implying Saucy himself thinks this way. But unless it can be shown here in direct quotes (and not any kind of paraphrasing or going off of our imperfect memories) that Obama outright insulted Christians or Scripture and not just something like their having to respect that there are other people in this country who think differently than them (because that's being fair; it isn't an insult or disrespect), I have no reason to not believe that Obama has overall been a very fair and diplomatic guy, certainly more so than Trump. Just from what I have seen.

We don't rule the world, Christians. Or even this country. Nor should we aspire to. It's time we realized that.

(And nor do Muslims own the planet, for the record, so eat it, ISIS.)

 

[Dawnhammer]

You can thank God you're not saying that in German right now.

You do know that about 3/4 of German losses in WWII were inflicted by The Soviet Union?

 

[SolomonVII]

You do know that about 3/4 of German losses in WWII were inflicted by The Soviet Union?

That doesn't make the Soviet Union any less of an evil that it was.
Moreover, before they were allied, they were making secret deals with the Nazis on how to carve up Poland.
The Soviet Union was ally of necessity, but it was a dance with the devil just the same.

 

[AV1611VET]

You do know that about 3/4 of German losses in WWII were inflicted by The Soviet Union?

I don't care if Guam took Germany.

You can thank God we're not all speaking German right now.

And as I understand it, the U.S. could have taken the AYBABTU approach, but held back on purpose and let Russia finish the job because of what Hitler had done to them.

 

[Desk trauma]

I don't care if Guam took Germany.

You can thank God we're not all speaking German right now.

Alternatively you could thank the millions of red army soldiers who gave their lives to crush the Third Reich...

 

[SolomonVII]

Alternatively you could thank the millions of red army soldiers who gave their lives to crush the Third Reich...

Alternately, you could think of Stalin in one of his paranoid rages murdering all of his generals, or sending them to freeze to death in gulags, so that the Third Reich was able to march in for a thousand miles, unopposed, slaughtering the untrained, unled, untrained people armed with pitchforks indiscriminately, until Russian winter stopped the Nazis.
That is closer to the truth of what socialism brings to the world.
Death by Incompetence.

 

[Dawnhammer]

And as I understand it, the U.S. could have taken the AYBABTU approach, but held back on purpose and let Russia finish the job because of what Hitler had done to them.

Your understanding is flawed.

Yalta Conference - Wikipedia

Russia finished the job because just like with Japan US had little interest of sacrificing their soldiers when alternatives were present - like 2 million soviet troops ready to soak up casualties. Not like Stalin blinked about throwing few more armies to meat grinder.

US also agreed to what was basically Soviet occupation of East Europe for 50 years for the pledge to get Soviets to enter war against the Japanese after finishing with Nazis which they did with great success

Soviet invasion of Manchuria - Wikipedia

Your faith for US or frankly any country to act on their foreign policy by some righteous moral guide is charming.
Keep it up. Sure beats sordid reality of politics.

 

[Dawnhammer]

Alternately, you could think of Stalin in one of his paranoid rages murdering all of his generals, or sending them to freeze to death in gulags, so that the Third Reich was able to march in for a thousand miles, unopposed, slaughtering the untrained, unled, untrained people armed with pitchforks indiscriminately, until Russian winter stopped the Nazis.

It really did not happen quite like that.....

 

[SolomonVII]

It really did not happen quite like that.....

It really did.

Purge of the Red Army in 1941 - Wikipedia


Red Army tactics in World War II - Wikipedia

 

[Dawnhammer]

Only if told by Hollywood

 

[AV1611VET]

Alternatively you could thank the millions of red army soldiers who gave their lives to crush the Third Reich...

You could too.

 

[AV1611VET]

Your understanding is flawed.

One ... more ... time.

Please listen VERY closely:

You ... can ... thank ... God ... that ... we ... all ... aren't ... speaking ... German.

I don't care who performed the sockdolager -- or why.

Let's give God the credit.

 

[SolomonVII]

Praising the USSR for its role in WWII is like praising Mussolini and Hitler for getting the trains running on time.

 

[Dawnhammer]

Praising the USSR for its role in WWII is like praising Mussolini and Hitler for getting the trains running on time.

This is like missing episode of American Genius......

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Let's give God the credit.

Couldn't he stop the war before 6 million or so Jews were needlessly exterminated?