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James H

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It is my understanding that in christian theology, Satan was once the highest angel. The story goes, Lucifer in his arrogance decided to rebel against god and was defeated and then cast into a bottomless pit.

My questions, are:

1. How could Lucifer rebel against God if God knew the future before Lucifer was even created?

2. How did Lucifer go from being an Angel cast into a bottomless pit to being an omnicient, omnipressent psuedo-deity capable of swaying gods children into the pits of hell. How did Satan aquire so much power. Did god just hand the power over to Satan on a silver platter?
 

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ok. First thing, angels have free will also. Satan decieved 1/3 of the angels in heaven with him.

Second, satan is not omnicient or omnipresent, he is only a powerful fallen angel. Actually, a true believer in Christ has more power and authority than satan. When satan was cast down to earth (he is not in hell, not yet) it was a big downgrade. Lucifer has a throne undernieth that of God, he had more access to God than any other angel in heaven. He just sought after God's glory, wanting to be God's equal.

Satan has his demons all over this earth, that is where his kingdom is, on earth. All satan and his demons can do is accuse and lie. They cannot do harm to you unless you allow it, especaily if you are a believer.
 
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James H

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You didn't answer my first question. and according to christian theology, Satan can be in many places at once. Please answer my first question and I want to ask a new one.

----When God cast Lucifer down, why didn't God destroy him? This would have prevented a lot of suffering on earth.
 
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MinDach

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You didn't answer my first question. and according to christian theology, Satan can be in many places at once. Please answer my first question and I want to ask a new one

He is a Spirit, God said he Roams the earth, it did not say he was in many places at once.

When God cast Lucifer down, why didn't God destroy him? This would have prevented a lot of suffering on earth

I guess for the same reason he did not destory mankind the first time he sinned.
If God would of destory all of mankind for there sins, we would not be here talking about it.

How did Satan aquire so much power

Satan has no power over Christians.

How did Lucifer go from being an Angel cast into a bottomless pit to being an omnicient, omnipressent psuedo-deity

Satan is not omnicient, omnipressent psuedo-deity. If he knew what was going to happen, he would of done every thing in his power to make sure Christ did not die on a cross or anywhere else.

Did god just hand the power over to Satan on a silver platter

What power would that be? You have a choice of life or death in front of you, you have the power. You have more power then Satan ever thought of having right in your mouth. God gave mankind a ( Gift ) of life forever, it right at your finger tips.
 
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The Midge

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We are not puppets of satan but free agents. "Satan made me do it!" is not a defence. Satan can only tempt, we have the power to resist.

Unfortunately as you observe none of us are perfect. We often do not have enough faith, we do not make those prayers, and sometimes God gracously witholds the power we have to prevent us causing more harm than good.
 
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GodFlute2

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1. God has a plan and Satan was part of it. I see it this way: we were created to worship God, but no one likes a forced religion so God provided an alternate route, sin. also if that had not been, what would we have to look forward to? Humans were created to live forever, but Eve broke that when she gave in to sin. If she hadn't done that we would all live forever on Earth, and sinse Man(in general) had not been introduced to sin we would have no reason to worship God. We had everything we needed right here. The Garden of Eden was perfect, and it still is, Humans just can't get to it.

2. Satan is only handed the power you gve him. He'll temp you and if you give in the that, then he'll do something bigger, then something even bigger, until it does seem that he has complete control. If you beat that first temptation, then Satan is gone for awhile, but he'll come back to try again and again. It's hard for Humans to see what God is really doing. We can only guess at some things, but we know that God is always in control. He said he will never leave you nor forsake you and he means it. We sometimes forget that and put ourselves into a bottomless pit.
 
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Chief117

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I think I see a lot of responses that I don't like. I want to try to clear up a few things for you, James.

First off, I don't believe the story of Lucifer you describe is in the Bible at all. I think this story is based on tradition, and so many Christians hear it and accept it as the way it is. The only times the Bible really refers to the background of Satan is in Job and in Revelations.

From Job, we know that Satan is part of God's plan, but under His power. God allows bad things to happen to good people in order that we might learn to depend on him more. It helps us to grow. I can go more in depth on this later if you wish.

From Revelations, we know that Satan has pulled down a "1/3 of the stars from heaven" (1/3 of all the angels) in his fall to earth. All angels have much power--the power to perform miracles, seem omnipresent (probably closer to "teleportation"), etc. An angel with the will to rebel against God and a desire for affliction could use these powers for much evil.

How do I know that all angels have this power? There are many examples in the Bible: God speaks through the donkey, Philip's teleportation after helping the Ethiopian (Acts 8), etc.

Satan's most dangerous power however, is (subtle) persuasion. His most effective tool is to make people feel like there "is no God." Atheism, Agnosticism, and everything else are all deceptions of Satan and his minions. His persuasive acts include despair, depression, addiction, etc.

Satan was able to rebel against God in the same way we can--free will. That's already been said. The choice is the beauty of God's Plan! How much more perfect it is when we had the choice to NOT believe! to not accept his GIFT of salvation!

I think that should answer most of the questions. So, now a comment:

All those who think Satan has no power over you BEWARE! That is not Christian--that is deception.

Jude 9 said:
9But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

The point of this scripture is this: even an Angel in Heaven did not dare slander the Devil--He is powerful! Instead, he said, "Lord rebuke you!" Do not allow your guard to be down, or the Devil to gain a foothold--in Jesus' name we can command the forces of evil--but that is not us. We are not more powerful or immune to his power. Jesus is. And Jesus is with us.

So remember that! God bless.
 
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12volt_man

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Because Lucifer didn't know the future.


Christianity doesn't teach this.
 
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MinDach

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All those who think Satan has no power over you BEWARE! That is not Christian--that is deception

This is not true, Satan has only the power over you if you let him, How do you stop him? By telling him to leave in Jesus Christ name. In all things if you lift up the Name of Jesus, Satan has to flee, he has no choice. There are many place in the bible were we are told this. Here are a few, from the bible


But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.


Mar 6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed [them].


Mar 6:6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.


Mar 6:7 And he called [unto him] the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits

(It say right here he gave unto them the power over the unclean spirit.)


Luk 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.


Luk 9:2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.


Luk 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.


Luk 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.


Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.


Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.


Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.


(Here are only a few, but make no mistake, if you do not know Jesus, it is wise to leave Satan and all his evil spirits alone.)



Act 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.


Act 19:14 And there were seven sons of [one] Sceva, a Jew, [and] chief of the priests, which did so.


Act 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?


Act 19:16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.
 
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Chief117

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No. You should not attempt to contact, befriend, or otherwise relate to demons, Satan, or anything of the Occult. It is a dangerous game--ones that have led to demon possession and otherwise evil occurrences.

Leave the Powers and Principalities (demons and Satan, etc) to Jesus and His Host. Do NOT even entertain curiosity, as it is not right with your faith.

I have read a couple of articles by men (Christians) who've wrote about their experiences with Occult. It is truly chilling--I think the article was "The Devil Wants My Soul" (I don't remember the author), but I know it was a supplement to an international Christian paper ('The Herald of His Coming') which is published by my soon-to-be father-in-law. If anyone is interested, I might be able to arrange finding you a copy--it might even be online, I don't know.
 
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Chief117

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Look, I'm not disagreeing with you. I know what you're saying, and I completely agree. But I still think you didn't quite grasp the warning in what I was saying.

Christ is in us, and in Jesus' name (and only with His name) are we able to confine and dispel demons. We, as humans, have no power of the spiritual realm. Jesus does, and He fights for us--and they are more afraid of Him than ever Saul's soldiers were of Goliath.

What I think you fail to realize--and my point is made clear by LingJanet's question--that people are not in the right place to "fight" demons (in Jesus' name).


What this scripture says to me is that we will not win these battles without the full armor of God (though it does say that we should be wearing it). How many of us out there can call ourselves ready? I doubt that many are. I do not think that I am, but where I fail, there will be others in the body of Christ (the Church) who take ground with me and in Christs' name we will prevail against the Devil.

My point is this: do not become so confident in yourself that you think you are safe from Satan. No one is safe from him. Satan can use others to harm us, and he can also harm us directly or indirectly. I am saying, stay away from Satan and his minions, cling to Jesus and His promises, cast out demons when necessary (but don't grow overly confident).


It is a truly noble cause to be a missionary--where I'm sure that you will encounter demon possession. Then is the time to fight. That is the time to seek the battle. Keep your head in the light, surround yourself with positive things.

Do not underestimate your enemy, but also do not forget one FAR more powerful than he is on your side.

God Bless.
 
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The answer to '1' is simple. God did know. But this is all about freedom of choice amongst His creation. ALL of His creation, even in Heaven.

Without this, there is no point in going through the whole play.

Lucifer himself is the most powerful of the Angels, and now most powerful of demons in the form of Satan. He influences us very subtely every day. JUST LIKE GOD DOES. And here I want to digress...

God talks to us all the time. "Behold I stand at the door and knock." But you have a choice to shut Him out if you like. Most people do in America these days, and this is all because we have surrounded ourselves with technology and the workings of human hands. As a result, we are under the false impression we no longer need His support, we can do it on our own.

Back to the subject of '2', God did precisely that. See, Satan is first and foremost The Great Accuser. He stands before God at all times, pointing out the failings of His creation. Specifically, humanity. "If you let me persecute this guy, he will surely turn against you God." And God, ever interested in Justice, allows it so that in the end Satan who essentially has a free hand, though he must ask permission first, will know he was wrong. On that final day is the ultimate victory.

Before that came the victory on the cross. Christ's sacrifice for us was a freebie, and it was for ALL of us. Those who come to the Lord are never forsaken, all you need to do is answer when the knock comes.
 
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MinDach

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What this scripture says to me is that we will not win these battles without the full armor of God (though it does say that we should be wearing it). How many of us out there can call ourselves ready? I doubt that many are

Yes and I agree with you, many may not be wearing the full armor of God.
Satan will attack you or me at any time, I guess my point would be God did not give us a spirit of fear, the Jew would of been in there lands, unstead of wondering in the wilderness for 40 years if they had believe God and did not fear the Giants in the land. Many people suffer the damage Satan does to them, and ever fights back, when God gives them power too. God Bless
 
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Rafael

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When satan fell into sin because of pride, it was no surprise to God, but He used it to bring about glory to Himself.The Bible says that He suffers the vessels of dishonor for that reason. I've used this illustration many times: that a painter cannot paint a self portrait with just white. He has to use all the colors light and dark, and then black as the defining contrast as an outline that gives more detail to the beauty of God. The devil thinks that he does damage, but there is nothing that he can do that God cannot restore or make live again. God has the power to give life and resurrect the dead to new life. All the damage and circumstance done by satan is turned into advantage and blessing to those that love God.

Ro 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Ro 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

2)Satan is not omniscient like God, but he does have some advantage, being interdimensional by nature, as a son of God. These angelic beings have properties in life that are greater than man's, having the ability to manifest in the flesh, but being restrained by God from doing so since Jesus defeated Him and gave back authority to man in His name (in Jesus name we pray). It was mankind that lost authority to satan when he fell in the garden of Eden. Man lost authoruty and satan became the prince of the power of the air, where he still uses his fallen angels as generals over certain areas of the earth. As others have said, we are instructed to prepare for battle, as it is not flesh and blood that we figt against but principalities and powers in high places. We are even warned to not mock satan, but put on the full armor of God, realizing the power and great deceptive powers he will once again display on earth, copying the miracles and signs of Jesus in the last days when his false prophet and the antichrist come into power in a new world order.

Eph 2:2 You used to live just like the rest of the world, full of sin, obeying Satan, the mighty prince of the power of the air. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God.

Eph 6:12 For we are not fighting against people made of flesh and blood, but against the evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against those mighty powers of darkness who rule this world, and against wicked spirits in the heavenly realms.

2Pe 2:10 and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties,

Jude 1:8 Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties.

Satan is cast into the pit during the thousand year physical reign of Jesus upon the earth. Many try and over spiritualize this kingdom of Jesus, as it has already come in the spirit and is within us now, not being commonly observed, but a physical manifestation of Jesus is coming along with that 1000 years where satan is bound. At the end of that period where the law has once again established, there will still be nations upon the earth that do not want to follow Jesus. They will arise and rebell once again (Gog and Magog, many believe this is the nation of Russia) to attack Jerusalem, the city, and Israel the nation of God's people. After this battle, the Great White throne judgment occurs, where all the unrighteous are resurrected and the books are opened for judgement. All men are judged according to their deeds in life except for those who judgment has already occurred at the cross where Jesus died for the sins of them that accepted His gift of life. Their judgment is more like an awards ceremony where they receive crowns of life, only to throw them all at the feet of Jesus who redeemed them and gave them His Holy Spirit of truth.

Revelations 20:3 The angel threw him into the bottomless pit, which he then shut and locked so Satan could not deceive the nations anymore until the thousand years were finished. Afterward he would be released again for a little while.
4 Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony about Jesus, for proclaiming the word of God. And I saw the souls of those who had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted his mark on their forehead or their hands. They came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.)
6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him a thousand years.
7 When the thousand years end, Satan will be let out of his prison.
8 He will go out to deceive the nations from every corner of the earth, which are called Gog and Magog. He will gather them together for battle—a mighty host, as numberless as sand along the shore.
9 And I saw them as they went up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded God’s people and the beloved city. But fire from heaven came down on the attacking armies and consumed them.
10 Then the Devil, who betrayed them, was thrown into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
11 ¶ And I saw a great white throne, and I saw the one who was sitting on it. The earth and sky fled from his presence, but they found no place to hide.
12 I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to the things written in the books, according to what they had done.
13 The sea gave up the dead in it, and death and the grave gave up the dead in them. They were all judged according to their deeds.
14 And death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire.
15 And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Isa.2:2,3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the Law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.



I hope this helps.
 
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Chief117

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Hands Open,

I don't know why this is so hard for most people to understand--it is perfectly logical in my mind. I know there are many posts on this same point already.

It is possible for an omniscient being to have a plan for His creation, AND grant them free will. Free will. I can choose to do whatever I want to. I can choose to do great evil on this earth--and that would go contrary to God's will. His plan overall will never fail, but people can (and many do) perform acts that are against what God has planned for us. Free will. It is why many of you have chosen not to believe. You have the free will to do so.

Just because God has the power to do anything and everything, does not mean that He will intervene in miraculous ways all the time. He wants us to see the evil in the world, and cling to Him. He wants us to CHOOSE Him. He wants us to live selfless lives by His Spirit when there are so many more self satisfying options out there.

But, for those who love Him, nothing can be against them. Nothing.

Here is another main point about God's omniscience: Take a murderer for example--it is quite a common example among those who use your argument. God knows that man's heart, and that he is having thoughts that are evil and might lead to death. God does know, but that DOES NOT mean it is part of God's plan. The man can still choose to ignore the feelings and choose to change his life around. That IS part of God's plan. The greatest part of free will is to have the choice: to do good, or to do evil. And whenever someone chooses to do good instead, it is a beautiful thing. Beautiful.

BTW, angels do have free will also. Otherwise, it would make no sense whatsoever for their to have been a fall. They would have all worshipped God forever, but we all know that is not what happened. However, if there are those on earth (humans) who love God unfailingly with all their heart and will do anything--even die--in order to serve Him, how much more so will the angels in Heaven adhere to him (as they know and live with God).
 
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Rafael

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You didn't read the rest of the sentence, nor the verses given. God says that in 2 Peter 3:9 that He isn't willing that any man should perish, yet who could resist the will of God if not for Him givng us a choice to resist that will?

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

If we can resist God's will, then we can doom ourselves against that will of God's that we not perish. Romans 9:22 and 8:28 just says that no matter what circumstances evil brings about, those that love God and answer the call will be taken care of and evil will work out to good for them, eventually. God is able to restore all things - even life, as I already said. This is an assurance for those that believe in Him, but those that do not by rejecting the truth, have not that assurance.
Why do you think God created satan knowing he would become evil if it were not important that a choice be given through his representaion of everything opposite of God - God's antithesis. We do not know the powers of life and death or how to make dimensions sing together in harmony like the String or M theory projects as a unifying theorum. Without the dark contrast of evil, there would be no definition or knowing God and the glory of this existence, as Rom. 9:22 suggests. Could that be? It sure looks that way, as evil surely seems to be evident in mankind as main influence and enslaver to sin. God gave us a way out of enslavement, but those that insist on joining the dark side of evil against Him and wittingly or unwittingly become sons of their father satan, "sons of diobedience", choose to not accept the restoration and eternal life He offers. Who can fully love unless they choose to submit themselves to that love? How would we be anything other than robots without a choice to serve or rebel? The problem is choice, Neo, yet people complain about it as though they could make a universe, man, and then reveal themselves in a better way from a position of complete ignorance and powerlessness to even create a blade of grass to teach. By faith we believe this is the only way God could have created man and all things so He could enjoy fellowship and love. He risked evil in order to gain love and fellowship, IMO, and then paid the price Himself, manifesting Himself in the flesh of man, Jesus, and suffering the penalty of death, defeating evil's curse at the cross. Someday, evil is eternally seperated from God and His family, but it is never destroyed completely out of existence. Again, why? Why does it have to exist and not just be non-existent? I would say that it is the only way for all the rest to exist. The scriptures say God isn't willing for any to perish and that He pays the penalty for death Himself, yet is bound to not violate our will and choice to either become sons of God or remain under the influence of satan, in the dark. Man is responsible for a choice. Otherwise there would be no judgment.
Complaining about life and accusing God of evil isn't really honest in many cases, IMO. It is just another excuse to justify ones sins and keep them. They are so powerful in their bonds that many cannot imagine living without them and then feeling a need to justify theirselves, their only alternative is attacking that which has given them the breathe of life. Instead of speaking life and blessing with the mouth they are given by the Creator, they speak death and curses towards Him. They prefer darkness to the light because their deeds are evil, and this is what John has said, as I quote:

Joh 3:19 Their judgment is based on this fact: The light from heaven came into the world, but they loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil.
 
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