How did Abraham see Yeshua/Jesus?

Lulav · Jan 7, 2018

Time Travel.

Simple, but true.

Abraham was given a look into the future, this is what allowed him to go through with what G-d asked of him, to sacrifice his only son.

When Yeshua was accused of blasphemy in the gospel of John 8

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, 'Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?"
58 Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM."

How did Abraham 'see it'?

1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. 2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

3 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
4 Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.

Clearly here we see a picture of the Passover to come.

We have the Father, taking his only son to be a burnt offering.
We have Two young men accompaning him though we don't hear about anything they are needed for and this brings to mind the two on the crosses on either side of Yeshua.
We have the wood to lay Isaac upon; Reminiscent of the cross
We have the mention of the 'Third Day' and Abraham 'lifting up' his eyes

5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you. 6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, 'Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? "
8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

So how did Abraham know this? How did he know it wasn't meant to be Isaac?

What did Abraham see 'afar off'? It wasn't 'the place' he and Isaac were going. ....

9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him the altar upon the wood. 10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

Firstly he left his two servants and the ass and went on ahead, but it wasn't that far as one would imagine if you read it as the place was far away. Why would he travel so far from his provisions?

We see The Father, Abraham, binding his son, laying him on the wood and raising up a knife (metal) to pierce him with.

I believe that what Abraham saw and what seems to be verified in John 8 is a vision upon that same mountain that he was climbing up of Yeshua on the cross and the following resurrection. He was given a vision of resurrection. Therefore he had no hesitation about what G-d asked him to do as he believed in the resurrection and the life before anyone else, to the point of risking killing his beloved son Isaac, knowing he would be brought back from the dead if it went that far.

Now if that's not enough in that sentence, verse 4, check this out.

ביום השלישי וישא אברהם את עיניו וירא את המקום--מרחק

What is highlighted in Red for those who don't read Hebrew and is NOT translated into English or any other language is the Alef-Tav.

The first and last of the Hebrew Alphabet or Alefbet

Yeshua in the book of Revelation said he was the Alef - tav but the Greek reads Alpha Omega, but there are some who believe that the Revelation was originally written in Hebrew/Aramaic in order to carry this over.

So to read that verse in Genesis is would be something like this:

Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.

Literally:

"On the day three, then lifted up Avraham את his eyes and saw את the place from a distance"

Now in English we would say something like:

'On the third day, Abraham looked into the future and saw alef-Tav (aka Yeshua)'

So now the verse in John should take on so much more meaning and give much more meaning to the 'Akedah', the telling of the binding of Isaac.

SkyWriting · Jan 7, 2018

Lulav said:
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, 'Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?"
58 Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM."

How did Abraham 'see it'?

Rom 1
19 because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse:

PeaceJoyLove · Jan 7, 2018

Lulav said:
Time Travel.

Simple, but true.

Abraham was given a look into the future, this is what allowed him to go through with what G-d asked of him, to sacrifice his only son.

When Yeshua was accused of blasphemy in the gospel of John 8

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, 'Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?"
58 Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM."

How did Abraham 'see it'?

1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. 2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

3 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
4 Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.

Clearly here we see a picture of the Passover to come.

We have the Father, taking his only son to be a burnt offering.

We have Two young men accompaning him though we don't hear about anything they are needed for and this brings to mind the two on the crosses on either side of Yeshua.

We have the wood to lay Isaac upon; Reminiscent of the cross

We have the mention of the 'Third Day' and Abraham 'lifting up' his eyes

Now comes the good part, after three days we see the expression of Abraham lifting up his eyes.

Verse 4 contains so much we don't see in the English, but in the Hebrew it is astonishing!

Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.

In Hebrew, transliterated

bay·yō·wm haš·šə·lî·šî way·yiś·śā ’aḇ·rā·hām, ’eṯ- ‘ê·nāw way·yar ’eṯ- ham·mā·qō·wm mê·rā·ḥōq
Let's Start with the word 'mê·rā·ḥōq'

Now Abraham, on the Third Day, looks up and saw 'the place'. Now not knowing what this 'place' was as G-d said he would show him, how did he know it was 'the place'. It's what comes afterwards that tells us.

He saw 'the place' 'Afar off'.

Some translate this as in the distance, but I don't think that is correct in light of John 8

Another question, a bit further down the passage we read:

5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you. 6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, 'Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? "
8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

So how did Abraham know this? How did he know it wasn't meant to be Isaac?

What did Abraham see 'afar off'? It wasn't 'the place' he and Isaac were going. ....

9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him the altar upon the wood. 10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

Firstly he left his two servants and the ass and went on ahead, but it wasn't that far as one would imagine if you read it as the place was far away. Why would he travel so far from his provisions?

We see The Father, Abraham, binding his son, laying him on the wood and raising up a knife (metal) to pierce him with.

I believe that what Abraham saw and what seems to be verified in John 8 is a vision upon that same mountain that he was climbing up of Yeshua on the cross and the following resurrection. He was given a vision of resurrection. Therefore he had no hesitation about what G-d asked him to do as he believed in the resurrection and the life before anyone else, to the point of risking killing his beloved son Isaac, knowing he would be brought back from the dead if it went that far.

Now if that's not enough in that sentence, verse 4, check this out.

ביום השלישי וישא אברהם את עיניו וירא את המקום--מרחק

What is highlighted in Red for those who don't read Hebrew and is NOT translated into English or any other language is the Alef-Tav.

The first and last of the Hebrew Alphabet or Alefbet

Yeshua in the book of Revelation said he was the Alef - tav but the Greek reads Alpha Omega, but there are some who believe that the Revelation was originally written in Hebrew/Aramaic in order to carry this over.

So to read that verse in Genesis is would be something like this:

Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.

Literally:

"On the day three, then lifted up Avraham את his eyes and saw את the place from a distance"

Now in English we would say something like:

'On the third day, Abraham looked into the future and saw alef-Tav (aka Yeshua)'

So now the verse in John should take on so much more meaning and give much more meaning to the 'Akedah', the telling of the binding of Isaac.

Amazing, the whole of scripture being the narrative of our soul's journey/process taking place within. Moses saw the promise land from afar, though did not enter in (entering in being the promise of entering His rest). Our soul can be likened to the land (desert/wilderness or land of milk and honey), a mountain (or a wandering between two mountains), two sons (one of the promise, the other in bondage), two trees, two women (harlot and or virgin)...until the truth that we are narrows down to One that we have always been, a son (no gender implied)...Alpha and Omega, First and Last, The beginning and the End (which takes us full circle back to the beginning) "Before Abraham was I AM..."

The spiritual truth being inwardly revealed...notice Isaac was the second born son (and of promise)... his first born was sent away...another picture of our of the process taking place within...

The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.

gadar perets · Jan 7, 2018

Lulav said:
Time Travel.

Simple, but true.

Abraham was given a look into the future, this is what allowed him to go through with what G-d asked of him, to sacrifice his only son.

When Yeshua was accused of blasphemy in the gospel of John 8

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, 'Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?"
58 Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM."

How did Abraham 'see it'?

1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. 2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

3 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
4 Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.

Clearly here we see a picture of the Passover to come.

We have the Father, taking his only son to be a burnt offering.

We have Two young men accompaning him though we don't hear about anything they are needed for and this brings to mind the two on the crosses on either side of Yeshua.

We have the wood to lay Isaac upon; Reminiscent of the cross

We have the mention of the 'Third Day' and Abraham 'lifting up' his eyes

Now comes the good part, after three days we see the expression of Abraham lifting up his eyes.

Verse 4 contains so much we don't see in the English, but in the Hebrew it is astonishing!

Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.

In Hebrew, transliterated

bay·yō·wm haš·šə·lî·šî way·yiś·śā ’aḇ·rā·hām, ’eṯ- ‘ê·nāw way·yar ’eṯ- ham·mā·qō·wm mê·rā·ḥōq
Let's Start with the word 'mê·rā·ḥōq'

Now Abraham, on the Third Day, looks up and saw 'the place'. Now not knowing what this 'place' was as G-d said he would show him, how did he know it was 'the place'. It's what comes afterwards that tells us.

He saw 'the place' 'Afar off'.

Some translate this as in the distance, but I don't think that is correct in light of John 8

Another question, a bit further down the passage we read:

5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you. 6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, 'Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? "
8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

So how did Abraham know this? How did he know it wasn't meant to be Isaac?

What did Abraham see 'afar off'? It wasn't 'the place' he and Isaac were going. ....

9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him the altar upon the wood. 10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

Firstly he left his two servants and the ass and went on ahead, but it wasn't that far as one would imagine if you read it as the place was far away. Why would he travel so far from his provisions?

We see The Father, Abraham, binding his son, laying him on the wood and raising up a knife (metal) to pierce him with.

I believe that what Abraham saw and what seems to be verified in John 8 is a vision upon that same mountain that he was climbing up of Yeshua on the cross and the following resurrection. He was given a vision of resurrection. Therefore he had no hesitation about what G-d asked him to do as he believed in the resurrection and the life before anyone else, to the point of risking killing his beloved son Isaac, knowing he would be brought back from the dead if it went that far.

That is the long way of saying Abraham saw Yeshua's day through the eyes of faith (Hebrews 11:13).

Now if that's not enough in that sentence, verse 4, check this out.

ביום השלישי וישא אברהם את עיניו וירא את המקום--מרחק

What is highlighted in Red for those who don't read Hebrew and is NOT translated into English or any other language is the Alef-Tav.

The first and last of the Hebrew Alphabet or Alefbet

Yeshua in the book of Revelation said he was the Alef - tav but the Greek reads Alpha Omega, but there are some who believe that the Revelation was originally written in Hebrew/Aramaic in order to carry this over.

So to read that verse in Genesis is would be something like this:

Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.

Literally:

"On the day three, then lifted up Avraham את his eyes and saw את the place from a distance"

Now in English we would say something like:

'On the third day, Abraham looked into the future and saw alef-Tav (aka Yeshua)'

So now the verse in John should take on so much more meaning and give much more meaning to the 'Akedah', the telling of the binding of Isaac.

The aleph-tav throughout the Tanakh does NOT refer to Yeshua. It is simply a marker for the definite direct object. Here is a link to an article I wrote on the subject.

PeaceJoyLove · Jan 7, 2018

gadar perets said:
That is the long way of saying Abraham saw Yeshua's day through the eyes of faith (Hebrews 11:13).

The aleph-tav throughout the Tanakh does NOT refer to Yeshua. It is simply a marker for the definite direct object. Here is a link to an article I wrote on the subject.

Though it points to a son we have always been since the beginning...all having the same father...Born again/new creation...man born natural flesh and blood...inward truth, born of the spirit by faith...

Revelation 21:5 And the One seated on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Then He said, “Write this down, for these words are faithful and true. 6 And He told me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give freely from the spring of the water of life. 7 The one who is victorious will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son.

Charlie24 · Jan 7, 2018

Abraham believed God would raise Issac from the dead because God had promised Abraham that Issac would be the promised seed.

That is unparalleled faith!

Hebrews 11:17-19

Francis Drake · Jan 7, 2018

The OT theophanies, visitations of God, or "angels of the Lord" were simply appearances of Jeshua the Son, prior to his later incarnation.
It was Jeshua who walked in the Garden of Eden with Adam.
It was Jeshua who met Abraham on his way to blast Sodom and Gomorrah.
It was Jeshua who crossed the wilderness with the Israelites.
etc.

gadar perets · Jan 7, 2018

Francis Drake said:
The OT theophanies, visitations of God, or "angels of the Lord" were simply appearances of Jeshua the Son, prior to his later incarnation.
It was Jeshua who walked in the Garden of Eden with Adam.
It was Jeshua who met Abraham on his way to blast Sodom and Gomorrah.
It was Jeshua who crossed the wilderness with the Israelites.
etc.

Total assumption and absolutely false.

Francis Drake · Jan 8, 2018

gadar perets said:
Total assumption and absolutely false.

So its total assumption and absolutely false is it?

1Cor10v1For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters,....
(Likewise my friend, I don't want you to be ignorant of the facts either.)
...that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

As you can see, Paul understood that Jesus walked with the Israelites through the wilderness and across the Red Sea.
If that's true, what about elsewhere in the OT.

Who do you think walked with Adam and Eve in the Garden?
Who do you think was Melizedek if not Christ.
Who met Abraham before Sodom?
Who was the Captain of the host of the Lord that confronted Joshua before Jericho?
etc.

Come give us your answers please.

gadar perets · Jan 8, 2018

Francis Drake said:
So its total assumption and absolutely false is it?

1Cor10v1For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters,....
(Likewise my friend, I don't want you to be ignorant of the facts either.)
...that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

As you can see, Paul understood that Jesus walked with the Israelites through the wilderness and across the Red Sea.

This entire passage is to be understood in a spiritual sense, not literal. It must be understood with Exodus 17:6 in mind;

"Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel."

1 Corinthians 10:4 is figuratively making reference to Exodus 17:6 which is a shadow of Messiah. To "smite the rock" is to kill the Messiah. The rock could not yield water until it was smitten. Similarly, the Messiah Yeshua could not give forth "rivers of living water" until he was put to death and then resurrected unto eternal life (glorified). John 7:39 shows this "living water" to be the Holy Spirit. Yeshua was not physically present with them in the wilderness. Spiritually speaking he was. That is why the verse says "spiritual drink" and "spiritual Rock." They also went through a spiritual baptism (figurative since they never got wet). Your translation uses "accompanied" whereas most other versions use "followed". Follow can have reference to time or space. Messiah followed in time as they looked forward to his coming. Why would we have all the shadows of the coming Messiah in the OT (Passover lamb, sacrifices, manna, water from the rock, etc.) if he was with them the entire time?

If that's true, what about elsewhere in the OT.

Who do you think walked with Adam and Eve in the Garden?

We are told it was "YHWH". "YHWH" is Messiah's Father (Psalm 2:7; Acts 13:33).

Who do you think was Melizedek if not Christ.

He was a type of Messiah, not Messiah himself. Yeshua would not need to "be made" a priest after the order of Melchizedek if he was Melchizedek. He would have been a priest all along.

Who met Abraham before Sodom?

Angels.

Who was the Captain of the host of the Lord that confronted Joshua before Jericho?
etc.

An angel.

If you choose to read Messiah into the text of those four examples, then you will not come to a knowledge of the truth. No student of Scripture should read anything into a text that is not there unless a NT text tells us to such as Acts 13:33 which reveals to us that Yeshua is the "son" in Psalm 2:7.

PeaceJoyLove · Jan 8, 2018

Christ being spirit, not flesh...has always been...Paul said we have the spirit of Christ and the mystery being revealed (within) "Christ in you, the hope of glory"...

The true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him. (John 1:9-10)

Shadows come from the sun (as it relates to perception/perceiving with the five senses) God's glory, the light within cannot be seen by observation as an over here or over there as it relates to our soul and God consciousness to our inner-most being.

In the garden, Adam was one alone. God placed him in a deep slumber, wounded his side to take out a woman who prepared the feast he ate. This eating caused a change in perception/eyesight change, God asking "Where art thou and who told you...?" Adam heard God's voice outside of himself for the first time made him afraid and he hid which is a picture of our soul's journey.

The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness! No man can serve two masters:.....

We 'see'/perceive from where we are at in the process taking place within, "For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God."...as surely as Jesus was a son, so are we...when we can 'see' we are ONE (individually as much as collectively) by the same spirit. As Paul said we see dimly at first, then face to face...know as we have always been known...

For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made His light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Jesus walked fully in the Spirit of Christ, showing The Way...

pinacled · Jan 8, 2018

Lulav said:
Time Travel.

Simple, but true.

Abraham was given a look into the future, this is what allowed him to go through with what G-d asked of him, to sacrifice his only son.

When Yeshua was accused of blasphemy in the gospel of John 8

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, 'Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?"
58 Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM."

How did Abraham 'see it'?

1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. 2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

3 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
4 Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.

Clearly here we see a picture of the Passover to come.

We have the Father, taking his only son to be a burnt offering.

We have Two young men accompaning him though we don't hear about anything they are needed for and this brings to mind the two on the crosses on either side of Yeshua.

We have the wood to lay Isaac upon; Reminiscent of the cross

We have the mention of the 'Third Day' and Abraham 'lifting up' his eyes

Now comes the good part, after three days we see the expression of Abraham lifting up his eyes.

Verse 4 contains so much we don't see in the English, but in the Hebrew it is astonishing!

Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.

In Hebrew, transliterated

bay·yō·wm haš·šə·lî·šî way·yiś·śā ’aḇ·rā·hām, ’eṯ- ‘ê·nāw way·yar ’eṯ- ham·mā·qō·wm mê·rā·ḥōq
Let's Start with the word 'mê·rā·ḥōq'

Now Abraham, on the Third Day, looks up and saw 'the place'. Now not knowing what this 'place' was as G-d said he would show him, how did he know it was 'the place'. It's what comes afterwards that tells us.

He saw 'the place' 'Afar off'.

Some translate this as in the distance, but I don't think that is correct in light of John 8

Another question, a bit further down the passage we read:

5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you. 6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, 'Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? "
8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

So how did Abraham know this? How did he know it wasn't meant to be Isaac?

What did Abraham see 'afar off'? It wasn't 'the place' he and Isaac were going. ....

9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him the altar upon the wood. 10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

Firstly he left his two servants and the ass and went on ahead, but it wasn't that far as one would imagine if you read it as the place was far away. Why would he travel so far from his provisions?

We see The Father, Abraham, binding his son, laying him on the wood and raising up a knife (metal) to pierce him with.

I believe that what Abraham saw and what seems to be verified in John 8 is a vision upon that same mountain that he was climbing up of Yeshua on the cross and the following resurrection. He was given a vision of resurrection. Therefore he had no hesitation about what G-d asked him to do as he believed in the resurrection and the life before anyone else, to the point of risking killing his beloved son Isaac, knowing he would be brought back from the dead if it went that far.

Now if that's not enough in that sentence, verse 4, check this out.

ביום השלישי וישא אברהם את עיניו וירא את המקום--מרחק

What is highlighted in Red for those who don't read Hebrew and is NOT translated into English or any other language is the Alef-Tav.

The first and last of the Hebrew Alphabet or Alefbet

Yeshua in the book of Revelation said he was the Alef - tav but the Greek reads Alpha Omega, but there are some who believe that the Revelation was originally written in Hebrew/Aramaic in order to carry this over.

So to read that verse in Genesis is would be something like this:

Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.

Literally:

"On the day three, then lifted up Avraham את his eyes and saw את the place from a distance"

Now in English we would say something like:

'On the third day, Abraham looked into the future and saw alef-Tav (aka Yeshua)'

So now the verse in John should take on so much more meaning and give much more meaning to the 'Akedah', the telling of the binding of Isaac.

Hello Lulav
Umm, sorry.
But i have a genuine concern and cannot remain silent about such a subject.
I know language can be difficult sometimes especially the english language.
The definition of Temp is attributed to something other than good. And something ive noticed over the yrs is the subtle perversion of the english definitions already established. Especially in those of the world who outright call good evil and evil good.
tem(p)t/
verb
: to entice to do wrong by promise of pleasure or gain.

Now as for desire.
Now that is something i believe we all have in common with Abraham.
James 1Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
1 From: Ya‘akov, a slave of God and of the Lord Yeshua the Messiah

To: The Twelve Tribes in the Diaspora:

Shalom!
12 How blessed is the man who perseveres through temptation! For after he has passed the test, he will receive as his crown the Life which God has promised to those who love him. 13 No one being tempted should say, “I am being tempted by God.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, and God himself tempts no one. 14 Rather, each person is being tempted whenever he is being dragged off and enticed by the bait of his own desire. 15 Then, having conceived, the desire gives birth to sin; and when sin is fully grown, it gives birth to death. 16 Don’t delude yourselves, my dear brothers.

17 Every good act of giving and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father who made the heavenly lights; with him there is neither variation nor darkness caused by turning. 18 Having made his decision, he gave birth to us through a Word that can be relied upon, in order that we should be a kind of firstfruits of all that he created. 19 Therefore, my dear brothers, let every person be quick to listen but slow to speak, slow to get angry; 20 for a person’s anger does not accomplish God’s righteousness!

21 So rid yourselves of all vulgarity and obvious evil, and receive meekly the Word implanted in you that can save your lives. 22 Don’t deceive yourselves by only hearing what the Word says, but do it! 23 For whoever hears the Word but doesn’t do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror, 24 who looks at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But if a person looks closely into the perfect Torah, which gives freedom, and continues, becoming not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work it requires, then he will be blessed in what he does.

ralliann · Jan 8, 2018

Lulav said:
Time Travel.

Simple, but true.

Abraham was given a look into the future, this is what allowed him to go through with what G-d asked of him, to sacrifice his only son.

When Yeshua was accused of blasphemy in the gospel of John 8

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, 'Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?"
58 Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM."

How did Abraham 'see it'?

1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. 2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

3 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
4 Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.

Clearly here we see a picture of the Passover to come.

We have the Father, taking his only son to be a burnt offering.

We have Two young men accompaning him though we don't hear about anything they are needed for and this brings to mind the two on the crosses on either side of Yeshua.

We have the wood to lay Isaac upon; Reminiscent of the cross

We have the mention of the 'Third Day' and Abraham 'lifting up' his eyes

Now comes the good part, after three days we see the expression of Abraham lifting up his eyes.

Verse 4 contains so much we don't see in the English, but in the Hebrew it is astonishing!

Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.

In Hebrew, transliterated

bay·yō·wm haš·šə·lî·šî way·yiś·śā ’aḇ·rā·hām, ’eṯ- ‘ê·nāw way·yar ’eṯ- ham·mā·qō·wm mê·rā·ḥōq
Let's Start with the word 'mê·rā·ḥōq'

Now Abraham, on the Third Day, looks up and saw 'the place'. Now not knowing what this 'place' was as G-d said he would show him, how did he know it was 'the place'. It's what comes afterwards that tells us.

He saw 'the place' 'Afar off'.

Some translate this as in the distance, but I don't think that is correct in light of John 8

Another question, a bit further down the passage we read:

5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you. 6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, 'Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? "
8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

So how did Abraham know this? How did he know it wasn't meant to be Isaac?

What did Abraham see 'afar off'? It wasn't 'the place' he and Isaac were going. ....

9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him the altar upon the wood. 10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

Firstly he left his two servants and the ass and went on ahead, but it wasn't that far as one would imagine if you read it as the place was far away. Why would he travel so far from his provisions?

We see The Father, Abraham, binding his son, laying him on the wood and raising up a knife (metal) to pierce him with.

I believe that what Abraham saw and what seems to be verified in John 8 is a vision upon that same mountain that he was climbing up of Yeshua on the cross and the following resurrection. He was given a vision of resurrection. Therefore he had no hesitation about what G-d asked him to do as he believed in the resurrection and the life before anyone else, to the point of risking killing his beloved son Isaac, knowing he would be brought back from the dead if it went that far.

Now if that's not enough in that sentence, verse 4, check this out.

ביום השלישי וישא אברהם את עיניו וירא את המקום--מרחק

What is highlighted in Red for those who don't read Hebrew and is NOT translated into English or any other language is the Alef-Tav.

The first and last of the Hebrew Alphabet or Alefbet

Yeshua in the book of Revelation said he was the Alef - tav but the Greek reads Alpha Omega, but there are some who believe that the Revelation was originally written in Hebrew/Aramaic in order to carry this over.

So to read that verse in Genesis is would be something like this:

Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.

Literally:

"On the day three, then lifted up Avraham את his eyes and saw את the place from a distance"

Now in English we would say something like:

'On the third day, Abraham looked into the future and saw alef-Tav (aka Yeshua)'

So now the verse in John should take on so much more meaning and give much more meaning to the 'Akedah', the telling of the binding of Isaac.

I think this is significant point
Gen 22:13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.

Here is the significance in my opinion. The covenant of,,, inheritance to royal priesthood, as the high priest.

Ga 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Swearing an oath also makes it without repentance,unable to be revoked

The only born, only begotten as distinct from the firstborn. Sole heir.....
Gen 22:15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Joh 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Lulav · Jan 8, 2018

pinacled said:
Hello Lulav
Umm, sorry.
But i have a genuine concern and cannot remain silent about such a subject.
I know language can be difficult sometimes especially the english language.
The definition of Temp is attributed to something other than good. And something ive noticed over the yrs is the subtle perversion of the english definitions already established. Especially in those of the world who outright call good evil and evil good.
tem(p)t/
verb
: to entice to do wrong by promise of pleasure or gain.

Now as for desire.
Now that is something i believe we all have in common with Abraham.
James 1Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
1 From: Ya‘akov, a slave of God and of the Lord Yeshua the Messiah

To: The Twelve Tribes in the Diaspora:

Shalom!
12 How blessed is the man who perseveres through temptation! For after he has passed the test, he will receive as his crown the Life which God has promised to those who love him. 13 No one being tempted should say, “I am being tempted by God.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, and God himself tempts no one. 14 Rather, each person is being tempted whenever he is being dragged off and enticed by the bait of his own desire. 15 Then, having conceived, the desire gives birth to sin; and when sin is fully grown, it gives birth to death. 16 Don’t delude yourselves, my dear brothers.

17 Every good act of giving and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father who made the heavenly lights; with him there is neither variation nor darkness caused by turning. 18 Having made his decision, he gave birth to us through a Word that can be relied upon, in order that we should be a kind of firstfruits of all that he created. 19 Therefore, my dear brothers, let every person be quick to listen but slow to speak, slow to get angry; 20 for a person’s anger does not accomplish God’s righteousness!

21 So rid yourselves of all vulgarity and obvious evil, and receive meekly the Word implanted in you that can save your lives. 22 Don’t deceive yourselves by only hearing what the Word says, but do it! 23 For whoever hears the Word but doesn’t do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror, 24 who looks at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But if a person looks closely into the perfect Torah, which gives freedom, and continues, becoming not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work it requires, then he will be blessed in what he does.

Yes the translators in the OLD KJV didn't choose the best word, it should be 'test' or tested. The 2000 version got it right though.

King James 2000 Bible
And it came to pass after these things, that God did test Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here am I.

PeaceJoyLove · Jan 8, 2018

ralliann said:
I think this is significant point
Gen 22:13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.

Here is the significance in my opinion. The covenant of,,, inheritance to royal priesthood, as the high priest.

Ga 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Swearing an oath also makes it without repentance,unable to be revoked

The only born, only begotten as distinct from the firstborn. Sole heir.....
Gen 22:15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Joh 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

We, first born of a bond woman (flesh)...born again (twice born) in spirit by faith, a son...If the son sets you free, you will be free indeed...

And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.

ralliann · Jan 8, 2018

Lulav said:
Yes the translators in the OLD KJV didn't choose the best word, it should be 'test' or tested. The 2000 version got it right though.

King James 2000 Bible
And it came to pass after these things, that God did test Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here am I.

So true, that God was testing Abram. What was he testing? Abraham's faith in the resurrection from the dead...
Two covenants... This first concerns the fourth
One made concerning the fourth Generation of his seed...After Abraham as well as Isaac and Jacob as well as the third generation in Egypt, had died. Yet God promised to give him the land, which in his lifetime he was a stranger and sojourner in.
See the covenants.
Gen 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
Acts puts it like this...
7:2 And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,
3 And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.
4 Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell.
5 And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.
6 And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years.
7 And the nation to whom they shall be in bondage will I judge, said God: and after that shall they come forth, and serve me in this place.
And Hebrews puts it this way...
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
In other words, God did not actually covenant the land to Abraham, Isaac Jacob, and the third generation, until the second covenant (royal covenant) until after Ismael was born, Gen 17.
In other words the patriarchs would not inherit until after they had all died. Like Joseph also knew.
Ge 50:25 And Joseph took an oath of the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence.
Ex 13:19 And Moses took the bones of Joseph with him: for he had straitly sworn the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you; and ye shall carry up my bones away hence with you.

ralliann · Jan 8, 2018

PeaceJoyLove said:
We, first born of a bond woman (flesh)...born again (twice born) in spirit by faith, a son...If the son sets you free, you will be free indeed...

And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.

Yep, I think so too!
See the two covenants....Gen 15 & Gen 17. The covenant of circumcision concerns kings, not slaves.
Of course the order of Melchzedek holds both the priesthood and royal order all in one office.

Lulav · Jan 8, 2018

gadar perets said:
The aleph-tav throughout the Tanakh does NOT refer to Yeshua. It is simply a marker for the definite direct object.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on the subject but I don't believe that it can be said definitively that it does not.

On a P'shaat level the marker is a marker, it's just grammar; But it is also pointing to something. Moving on down to the other levels we have to wonder why.

I think with what I connected from the OT and the NT it helps to 'prove' there is a sod level of that word.

Interestingly it is 'seen' and not 'heard'.

If you seek me, you will find me.............

But we can talk about the Alef Tav in another thread.

So what are your thoughts on this main part of the OP?

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

PeaceJoyLove · Jan 8, 2018

ralliann said:
Yep, I think so too!
See the two covenants....Gen 15 & Gen 17. The covenant of circumcision concerns kings, not slaves.
Of course the order of Melchzedek holds both the priesthood and royal order all in one office.

Removal of the flesh...seed of promise revealed. A seed within a seed...Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

gadar perets · Jan 8, 2018

Lulav said:
So what are your thoughts on this main part of the OP?

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

I believe Abraham saw Messiah's day through the eyes of faith. One thing is certain; he did not see Messiah, but only Messiah's day (looking forward to his coming and his Kingdom as well as the holy city he will dwell in).

How did Abraham see Yeshua/Jesus?

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