How comes Catholics Bless Mary?

Landon Caeli

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it is what is written . ..later..after the holyspirit descends ..the godhead dwells in his body..
but God is spirit. That too is written .
The word became flesh.
mary bought that flesh into the world. She mothered the man. Not God. But you dont want to admit it.because then you must denounce your mary veneration(also known as worship) .
your trying to dig a rabbit hole because you have no scripture where God (not man) calls
Her ..the mother of God.none zip zilch zero.


It is a very sad state of affairs when I see another "Christian" build his view of Jesus based on hatred for Jesus' mother... Now Jesus became fully God and fully man only after some special event involving the Holy Spirit? I think not, Jesus said before his death and resurrection that he was present in the beginning... So when was this special event that occured "later after the Holy Spirit descended"? At Pentecost? No, then he would have went to hades and escaped as a man and rose back from the dead as a man -all occuring prior to Pentecost. Not adding up.
 
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Alithis

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Will we find the words "Mary is the Mother of God"? No - not directly. There are references to it, but not a direct phrase. Similarly, you won't find the word "Trinity" in the Bible, or a myriad of other beliefs.

Some related scripture:

Scripture says "and you will call Him Emmanuel, which means God with Us".

Luke 1:41-44 states that Mary is the another of Elizabeth's Lord. Her baby leaped in her womb when she heard the sound of Mary's voice.

Isaiah 9:6 - For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.


The important point is this:

Calling Mary the Mother of God is a Christological statement. It isn't a statement about her character, so much as a statement of who Jesus is. There were heresies in the early church, similar to what you seem to be promoting. The phrasing Mother of God was further defined as dogma to help clarify the nature of Jesus as found in Scripture.

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Philippians 2:5-11 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
8 Being …

The Word of God became flesh - he didn't come into a human body to dwell here on earth. Likewise, God the Son didn't cease to exist temporarily in between Jesus' birth and His baptism. God is unchanging, and Jesus is the only begotten Son of God....He is eternally begotten. When Jesus became God incarnate as a little child - he was even then 100% God and 100% man.

Perhaps a non-Catholic and non-Orthodox article would help: http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/advent-and-the-incarnation

It seems like you don't believe this. Am I misunderstanding your view here?
I believe everthing the scriptures state.
I just dont believe everything man adds to the scriptures. Nor do i have to.
God never refers to mary as his mother.
Only man adds that title to her.it does not have origin in God.- so as polite as your approach was.it doesnt change that.
 
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Alithis

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It is a very sad state of affairs when I see another "Christian" build his view of Jesus based on hatred for Jesus' mother... Now Jesus became fully God and fully man only after some special event involving the Holy Spirit? I think not, Jesus said before his death and resurrection that he was present in the beginning... So when was this special event that occured "later after the Holy Spirit descended"? At Pentecost? No, then he would have went to hades and escaped as a man and rose back from the dead as a man -all occuring prior to Pentecost. Not adding up.
Interesting slant thrown in there.
No one ever said they hated mary..where did you dredge that falsehood from ?

He was with the father at the beginning..even before the beginning. He is the speaking of God.
And..then,he became flesh ...

Did jesus raise himself from the dead? Nope.
The father did
By the holy spirit..
Thats scripture .
 
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All4Christ

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I believe everthing the scriptures state.
I just dont believe everything man adds to the scriptures. Nor do i have to.
God never refers to mary as his mother.
Only man adds that title to her.it does not have origin in God.- so as polite as your approach was.it doesnt change that.

I'm heading out soon for work, but I wanted to send a quick clarification that no one is saying Mary is the mother of the Godhead - rather she is the Mother of Jesus, God the Son, who is 100% God and 100% man, Who has been God and man since His conception. Of course, explaining it with that many words gets a bit wordy, and is too long for regular discussions!

Certainly we can agree to disagree. I believe the root of the disagreement though stems from our understanding of the person of Jesus Christ, and what His incarnation means. Since the title Mother of God stems out of our interpretation of the incarnation, I believe your disregard for the title also stems from your understanding of the incarnation. I actually do understand why you would deny the title Mother of God in light of your interpretation of the incarnation. I disagree [emoji846] but I understand.
 
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Wolf_Says

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It is as scripture states.
Not as man adds.
The word became flesh.. The word did not become god.
Maru gave birth to a fkesh and blood man who had no sin .
He was of the holy ghost.
He later had to recived the holy ghost.

He is the second adam. "Man" he prayed to his father in heaven...
All such things ARE in scripture.
But stating that mary is gods mother..is NOT in scripture .because it is not the truth.
Just because you force merge some things into your own recipe and come up with your own cake. Does not make it truth over the word of god.
But people have to try and force the point to justify venerating (worshipping) her.
But she is no such elevated being .
God has no mother. The title is blasphemy.

Congratulations! You just told me 2 things that I find interesting!

1) Obviously you do not believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ because of the statement that I highlighted. This means that you also do not believe in the trinity, and these 2 things no longer make you a christian, bet a heretic. In fact you are following the Adoptionism and Arianism lines of heretics. Look them up.

2) In the second thing I highlighted, there is not a single doctrine in the Catholic Church that states we need to worship Mary. We honor Mary because Jesus honored her and she gave birth to our Lord God. The only thing that Catholics worship is God, nobody else.
The Hail Mary prayer is simply asking Mary to pray for us, because hey, we could all use more people praying for us!
Venerate =/= Worship, Venerate = regard with great respect; revere while Worship = the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.

I find it rather funny that your little saying underneath your avatar states "Jesus is Lord" yet you just clearly denied the divinity of Jesus Christ right here in your response to me.
 
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prodromos

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I find it rather funny that your little saying underneath your avatar states "Jesus is Lord" yet you just clearly denied the divinity of Jesus Christ right here in your response to me.
It is ironic that Alithis states under his avatar that JESUS IS STILL LORD, yet when Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit refers to Mary as "Mother of my Lord", all of a sudden it means something different.
 
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Wolf_Says

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It is ironic that Alithis states under his avatar that JESUS IS STILL LORD, yet when Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit refers to Mary as "Mother of my Lord", all of a sudden it means something different.

And the Holy Spirit does not teach falsehoods, otherwise that would mean God teaches falsehoods, so therefore we can only conclude that Elizabeth calling Mary Mother of my Lord is not wrong.
 
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Albion

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in the beginning WAS the word and the word WAS with God and the word WAS god...

and later in johns same text.."and the word became flesh.
you see ?the word did not become god.

Mary gave birth to a man. Not god.
read the scripture-beleive the scripture. Not what men add to it tk appease thier own will.
The Son was God from all eternity. He took on flesh and a human nature by being born of Mary.
 
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Alithis

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The Son was God from all eternity. He took on flesh and a human nature by being born of Mary.
Yes he "was" . that is exactly the point.
That is what scripture says.
He WAS with god he WAS god ..He gave that up...and became flesh .mary is the mother of the flesh man. Not of God.
That is why scripture never ever calls her mother of God. Only erronous mankind does that.
God never did ,never does.never will.
He cant contradict himself.
 
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Wolf_Says

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Yes he "was" . that is exactly the point.
That is what scripture says.
He WAS with god he WAS god ..He gave that up...and became flesh .mary is the mother of the flesh man. Not of God.
That is why scripture never ever calls her mother of God. Only erronous mankind does that.
God never did ,never does.never will.
He cant contradict himself.

Once again, you are spouting off heretical statements. Jesus was, is, and always will be the same. Full God and Full Man.
 
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All4Christ

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Yes he "was" . that is exactly the point.
That is what scripture says.
He WAS with god he WAS god ..He gave that up...and became flesh .mary is the mother of the flesh man. Not of God.
That is why scripture never ever calls her mother of God. Only erronous mankind does that.
God never did ,never does.never will.
He cant contradict himself.

When you say this, it sounds like you think God the Son stopped existing- that His divinity changed and was lost. Is that what you mean to say? I can't see that happening, because God in His essence doesn't change. He could become human, but he couldn't "lose" His Divinity.
 
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Albion

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Yes he "was" . that is exactly the point.
That is what scripture says.
He WAS with god he WAS god ..He gave that up..
Then this is not Christian....according to the rules of Christian Forums. Check out the rules for yourself.
 
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Alithis

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Congratulations! You just told me 2 things that I find interesting!

1) Obviously you do not believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ because of the statement that I highlighted. This means that you also do not believe in the trinity, and these 2 things no longer make you a christian, bet a heretic. In fact you are following the Adoptionism and Arianism lines of heretics. Look them up.

2) In the second thing I highlighted, there is not a single doctrine in the Catholic Church that states we need to worship Mary. We honor Mary because Jesus honored her and she gave birth to our Lord God. The only thing that Catholics worship is God, nobody else.
The Hail Mary prayer is simply asking Mary to pray for us, because hey, we could all use more people praying for us!
Venerate =/= Worship, Venerate = regard with great respect; revere while Worship = the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.

I find it rather funny that your little saying underneath your avatar states "Jesus is Lord" yet you just clearly denied the divinity of Jesus Christ right here in your response to me.
Nice try but stating i agree With Everything...scripture states..is not a denial of what scripture states,
2nd saying you dont have to worship mary does not excuse that all over the world you do..(we see catholics carrying staues of mary through thestreets throwingflowers on her reaching out to touch thier statue..thats worship )and rome never ever denounces it or tells them to repent.
So say what you like aboutwhat you donthave to do.
If you know its sinand youdo it anyway..you rebel agaist God.
 
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Wolf_Says

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Nice try but stating i agree With Everything...scripture states..is not a denial of what scripture states,
2nd saying you dont have to worship mary does not excuse that all over the world you do..(we see catholics carrying staues of mary through thestreets throwingflowers on her reaching out to touch thier statue..thats worship )and rome never ever denounces it or tells them to repent.
So say what you like aboutwhat you donthave to do.
If you know its sinand youdo it anyway..you rebel agaist God.

If you agreed with everything scripture stated, you would not have said that Jesus was not God.

Catholics do not worship Mary, we honor her. What you stated is not worship in the slightest. If that is your view of worship then dang, I guess people worship alot of things!
Worship is the definition I gave you, lifting something up to deity status. The Church does NOT do this with Mary, she is a human being, plan and simple. She is special only because God allowed her to be by His grace.
Catholics also carry crosses, wear crosses as a necklace (i do).
We worship God and God alone. If you had ever been inside a Catholic Church or attended mass this would be made clear to you.
 
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Alithis

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If you agreed with everything scripture stated, you would not have said that Jesus was not God.

Catholics do not worship Mary, we honor her. What you stated is not worship in the slightest. If that is your view of worship then dang, I guess people worship alot of things!
Worship is the definition I gave you, lifting something up to deity status. The Church does NOT do this with Mary, she is a human being, plan and simple. She is special only because God allowed her to be by His grace.
Catholics also carry crosses, wear crosses as a necklace (i do).
We worship God and God alone. If you had ever been inside a Catholic Church or attended mass this would be made clear to you.
i never said Jesus was not God .. i said he .. the word of god who came from the father and returned to the father, .. became flesh .., he did not become God .. the scriptures state that very very plainly .
Mary is the mother of that flesh man ... not of God.
this is why God never ever gives her that title .
only erroneous man does that ( and with agenda )
 
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Alithis

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If you agreed with everything scripture stated, you would not have said that Jesus was not God.

Catholics do not worship Mary, we honor her. What you stated is not worship in the slightest. If that is your view of worship then dang, I guess people worship alot of things!
Worship is the definition I gave you, lifting something up to deity status. The Church does NOT do this with Mary, she is a human being, plan and simple. She is special only because God allowed her to be by His grace.
Catholics also carry crosses, wear crosses as a necklace (i do).
We worship God and God alone. If you had ever been inside a Catholic Church or attended mass this would be made clear to you.
this is just typical denial - its of interest that no other culture or religion on earth would deny that parading a statue through the streets throwing flowers at it and having feasts to it is worship .. but then i did not have any expectation of honesty on that count . never has been before , why would you start now
 
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Alithis

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When you say this, it sounds like you think God the Son stopped existing- that His divinity changed and was lost. Is that what you mean to say? I can't see that happening, because God in His essence doesn't change. He could become human, but he couldn't "lose" His Divinity.
when i say that i am agreeing with the scriptures ,nothing less nothing more .
God did not become sin.. the son became sin for us .
Mary is the mother of the man .. the flesh and blood man .
not the mother of God .
This is why God never ever gives her that title ,never did never does never will .
 
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Alithis

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Then this is not Christian....according to the rules of Christian Forums. Check out the rules for yourself.
rubbish .. im quoting the scripture lol.. are you trying to say the scriptures do not adhere to CF rules?

Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to cling to, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made inhuman likeness.
-thats scripture . he gave it up.. he emptied himself of GOD ..he became man . in case you dont know it .., empty does not mean half full. it means empty .
so if you want to run around calling the holy bible 'not christian' ..your going to have to take it up with GOD
 
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All4Christ

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rubbish .. im quoting the scripture lol.. are you trying to say the scriptures do not adhere to CF rules?

Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to cling to, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made inhuman likeness.
-thats scripture . he gave it up.. he emptied himself of GOD ..he became man . in case you dont know it .., empty does not mean half full. it means empty .
so if you want to run around calling the holy bible 'not christian' ..your going to have to take it up with GOD

What version of the Bible are you referencing?
 
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Hawkiz

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rubbish .. im quoting the scripture lol.. are you trying to say the scriptures do not adhere to CF rules?

I will kindly remind you of where you are posting. This is not a general theology forum. You have wandered into a denomination specific forum, and as such, you are in clear violation of the rules. You may ask questions and respond to direct questions to you, but you may not come to this or any other sub-forum and preach/teach against a denominations' belief. You have been asked to review the rules on more than one occasion already. The rules are in place for a reason, and we ask that you respect those rules.
 
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