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Featured How come good Friday is only two days from Easter Sunday?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Andrew4jesus, Apr 25, 2017.

  1. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Junior Member

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    Every single statement of course being full of incorrect and fictitious inconsistencies. As shown repeatedly before. But let me just speak about one of them now.

    You make it look so one dimensional, <<the spices were bought AFTER the Sabbath of the Feast>>, in other words, on the day, <<AFTER the Sabbath of the Feast>>, in daylight of the day <<after the Sabbath of the Feast>>. According to you, on Friday day, <<after the Sabbath of the Feast>> on Thursday day.

    That is not what is seen in Mark 16:1 as well as what is implied and inferred in Mark 16:1. Two things are seen in Mark 16:1 which you pretend are non-existent in Mark 16:1 but very well know, do exist in Mark 16:1.

    The first is, Mark 16:1 says "after the Sabbath" which Mark, had in mind, which Sabbath was the Sabbath in between the day Joseph closed the grave on, which was "the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath" Friday without question, and "the day after the Sabbath" on which the three women bought spices. Mark means and speaks of "the day after the Sabbath", "the First Day of the week when they would go and anoint Him", and Friday after the Burial -- which was the weekly Sabbath, simply.
    That is the first thing you ignore flat as if it is beneath your worthiness to keep in mind.

    The second things is this,
    You make it look so one dimensional, <<the spices were bought AFTER the Sabbath of the Feast>>, in other words, on the day, <<AFTER the Sabbath of the Feast>>, in daylight of the day <<after the Sabbath of the Feast>>. According to you, on Friday day, <<after the Sabbath of the Feast>> on Thursday day.
    But that is not what is seen in Mark 16:1 nor what is implied or written in Mark 16:1. Because it is not written in Mark 16:1 that it was <<the day after the Sabbath>>, but, it is written that "the Sabbath had gone through" -- had just gone through, which was, not <<a work DAY the spices were bought>>, but was, just after "the Sabbath had gone through" just after sunset in the dusk "on the First Day of the week" in the beginning of "the First Day of the week" its evening. It therefore was early of dark still, "on the First Day of the week", after the Sabbath --"the Sabbath" which before the First Day of the week, "had gone through"; the Sabbath which followed on "the Fore-Sabbath the Preparation, the Friday, before it. In Mark 16:1 "the Sabbath had (just) gone through" and it was after the Sabbath in the early of dark still, or dusk, dusk after sunset on 'Saturday' evening.

    This shows the WC theory makes no sense and only creates nonsensicality.
     
  2. AFrazier

    AFrazier Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Let me say again the thing I have said numerous times. I'm not here to argue interpretation. I'm just telling you how it was done. Josephus and the Talmud both say the count is from the 16th. Therefore, the 15th is being treated as a sabbath in practice, since the count is from the morrow after the sabbath.

    Aside from the historically documented practice, I don't really care how anyone wants to interpret "sabbath," "holy convocation," or anything else. The count was from the 16th.
     
  3. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Junior Member

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    Not all 'feasts', <<are sabbaths>>, what, “the Sabbath of the LORD”!

    And not every day prior is a 'preparation', what, "The, Preparation"; what "the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath"!

    You're not even funny any more.
     
  4. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    Works just fine since the 14th was a Friday, the 15th was a Sabbath as well as ULB and the 16th was a Sunday (the morrow after the Sabbath)... :)
     
  5. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Junior Member

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    The Gospel Record has Jesus died on Thursday, "the Preparation of the Passover". NOT <<the prosabbaton>>. And then after sunset, in the night "when evening had come already" on the day after His death "since it was The Preparation which is (note the Presence!) the Before-Sabbath (or 'Pro-Sabbaton', which is the day before the weekly Sabbath, 'Friday'), he -- Joseph, no one else, not <they>, goes to Pilate and asks for His body.
     
  6. ImAHebrew

    ImAHebrew Active Member Supporter

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    Shalom Jan001, thank you for the response. Most feel that the destruction of the temple in 70 ad is when the Old Covenant ended, and all I am saying is that IF the Jews rebuild the temple, will they not follow the Old Covenant in their worship, and if they will then the Old Covenant has not vanished away. But I feel that as long as sinners are sinning, the Old Covenant is still in effect for sinners, and has not vanished away. As long as we still have sinners, the Old Covenant is still in effect.

    Concerning Acts 15:14 with James referencing what Peter had related to them, James is speaking about Acts 15:7, where Peter related how by HIS MOUTH the Gospel was preached to the Gentiles, I really doubt that Peter had spoken to Abraham. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
     
  7. ImAHebrew

    ImAHebrew Active Member Supporter

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    Shalom Jan001, thank you again for responding. So then there should not have been any difference between Timothy and Titus. If one would be circumcised, then the other should have also, or if one did not get circumcised, then the other should not have been circumcised. You don't think Paul wanted Titus to accompany him the way he wanted Timothy to? Logically, the only difference between Timothy and Titus is the fact that Timothy would have been considered a Jew by birth, and Titus would have been considered a Gentile by birth, and Paul believed that Jews were to be circumcised, and Gentiles weren't (they had freedom). Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew
     
  8. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Junior Member

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    Joseph asks for His body.
    Then, in Mark 15:46, "He, Joseph, took him down -- laid him down prostrate". NOT <<they take Him down from the Cross>>! And then the rest of the night, and the next morning. NOT, <<and then all night, and all the next day, they wrap Him in linens>>! It is all YOU! in your mind! nothing of this is <<in Mark 15:46>> You are trying to but are not succeeding to be ridiculous.

    They buried Him "as it is the Custom of Law of the Scriptures TO BURY", THE PASSOVER, <<so that at 3 in the afternoon, the day AFTER He died>>- not <almost>, but exactly <<24 hours>>, (they, not I) had <<Him being "enclosed" in the tomb by the stone being rolled over the entrance>>. Ja! According to God's <timeline> of the Passover of Yahweh. Halleluiah!
     
  9. ImAHebrew

    ImAHebrew Active Member Supporter

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    Shalom Gerhard, I'm sorry, I just see so many different explanations. You seem to say at times that the counting starts on the 16th, and also that the counting starts on the morrow after the weekly Sabbath. Maybe you should clear this up for me. What day did the counting start on? Saturday or Sunday? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
     
  10. ImAHebrew

    ImAHebrew Active Member Supporter

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    Shalom AFraizer, debating this topic has been going on for millenia. Here is a quote from Judaism 101:
    Many years ago we had the privilege to be taught by a young man who had been a direct student of the Rebbe (Menachen Schneerson), and we brought up this issue about which Sabbath to count from. He had not considered Joshua 5 before, and said it didn't matter, because Moses taught Joshua, Joshua taught those who followed him and so on down the line through the Oral Law, so it had to be the Sabbath of the Feast (the 15th) that the counting starts on the morrow of, since that is what the Oral Law (tradition teaches). Well, as you can see, the Sadducees disagreed, and Yeshua even disagreed with certain traditions that were passed down through the Oral Law. So I am just telling you here AFrazier, that just because they had a tradition, it doesn't mean it was correct.

    Just review this one more time with me. If we do try to claim that the Sabbath of ULB (15th) fell Wednesday sunset to Thursday sunset, the argument that will be used against us is that John said in John 19:31, that Sabbath was a "High Day." They would argue that for "that Sabbath" to be considered a "High Day" then both the High Day (15th) and the Sabbath (7th day of week) fell together. They will say that is what made it a "megas" day (High Day). Well, if that is the case, then with John 7:37 the same argument must be made, the Last day of the Feast of Tabernacles, THAT "megas" day, must have also fallen on the weekly Sabbath. But if you really read what John is saying there in John 7:37, the emphasis is upon the fact that it was the Last day of the Feast of Tabernacles, THE MEGAS DAY, nothing about the weekly Sabbath here. So in John's mind, the Feast Days that required a solemn assembly and no servile work, were "megas" days, and if that is the case, then in John 19:31, John tells us that Sabbath day was a "megas" day. Please, look at the context of John 19:31. The Jews, since it was preparation, did not want the bodies to remain on the cross on the Sabbath. IF the Sabbath that the Jews were preparing for was the weekly Sabbath, and it was Friday, why even bring up the fact that it was a High Day (megas) day? Do you see the point? It makes no sense to even bring up about the "megas" day being a Sabbath, IF it was Friday and the weekly Sabbath was starting. You could almost argue that on just the weekly Sabbath, the bodies could remain, but if the weekly Sabbath was ALSO a "megas" Sabbath day, then they had to be removed?? Just read John 19:31 again trying to ascertain why John would even bring up about the "megas" Sabbath day IF it was truly the weekly Sabbath that was coming up.

    John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and [that] they might be taken away.

    Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
     
  11. AFrazier

    AFrazier Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And "the first day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed" is what date again? Cause that date is the afternoon preceding the last supper, when two of the disciples made ready the passover. It was also the date of the day before the crucifixion.

    This is the third or fourth time I've brought it to your attention. Believe as you choose according to your interpretation or tradition, but at least acknowledge the scriptures. We can then at least be on the same page, that you know what the scriptures say, acknowledge them, but choose an alternate interpretation regardless.
     
  12. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    [Staff edit].

    The day the Passover must be killed is the 14th. The first day of ULB is the 15th. Not the same day...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2017
  13. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Junior Member

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    John 19:31 "The Jews then, because it was, the Preparation ("already"Mk15:42), that the bodies should not remain, upon the cross (where they still were hanging) on the sabbath day...because it was ongoing already..., since the day was great 'of That-sabbath-Of'(-The-Passover-BONE-Day), besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and [that] they might be taken away."
    “His body shall not remain ALL NIGHT upon the tree!”
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
  14. ImAHebrew

    ImAHebrew Active Member Supporter

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    Shalom Yeshua HaDerekh, and was the LAST, High Day of the Feast of Tabernacles ALSO a weekly Sabbath? (John 7:37) Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
     
  15. ImAHebrew

    ImAHebrew Active Member Supporter

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    Shalom AFrazier, I must say, of all of the opponents I have had on this forum, you are the most formidable. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
     
  16. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    I am saying that it was during the time between when Yeshua was crucified and when He rose. Has nothing to do with Booths...
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
  17. ImAHebrew

    ImAHebrew Active Member Supporter

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    Shalom Yeshua HaDerekh, well, when John speaks of a "megas" day in John 19:31, do you not want to say that is BECAUSE the 1st Day of Unleavened Bread FELL on the weekly Sabbath? Well, then when John speaks of another "megas" day with the Last Day of the Feast of Tabernacles (John 7:37), surely you must feel that this "megas" day was also falling on the weekly Sabbath for John to consider it a "megas" day???? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
     
  18. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    He does not say that it was a Sabbath, just that it was a high day of the Feast. He DOES say that the high day WAS a weekly Sabbath Day when Yeshua was in the tomb.
     
  19. ImAHebrew

    ImAHebrew Active Member Supporter

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    Shalom Yeshua HaDerekh, I realize that His crucifixion was not at the time of John 7:37. But John 7:37 speaks of a "megas" day. It was a High Day, the Last day of the Feast of Tabernacles, and it was a "megas" day ALL BY ITSELF. It didn't need a weekly Sabbath for it to be a "megas" day, as you contend the 1st Day of Unleavened Bread needed. In John 19:31, the High Day (megas day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread) was a Sabbath, ALL BY ITSELF, it did NOT need to fall on the weekly Sabbath for it to be a "megas" day Sabbath. Do you not agree? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
     
  20. ImAHebrew

    ImAHebrew Active Member Supporter

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    [Staff edit].

    Shalom Gerhard, why did John mention that the tomb was "nigh at hand?" (John 19:42) Was that even necessary? What was the purpose of him pointing out the tomb was "nearby?" Your assumptions concerning it taking 24 hours before the tomb was sealed, is preposterous, with considering that the tomb was "nigh at hand." Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2017
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