How Christ completed our salvation.

[parousia70]

Originally posted by eldermike
P70,
you sEldermike,
The bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that the Gospel was in fact preached to all nations, the whole world, and every creature under heaven, by the Late 60's AD>

You can teach what you want to teach, it just ain't so.

Blessings

Eldermike, are you saying that inspite of the scriptural proof I cited that the Gospel was indeed delivered to all nations before 70AD, you say it wasn't.

Hmmm, lets see...The apostle Paul, writing under infallible inspiration, claims that the Gospel was indeed preached to every creature under heaven, and had in fact gone out to "All nations" before 70AD..

Eldermike says, no it didn't, Paul was wrong.

Given that choice on which one of you two to believe, you'll understand why I'll stick with Paul on this.

I recommend you line up your belief with Paul as well.

In Christ,
P70

 

[eldermike]

P70

Wycliffe has been using aircraft, computers, every possible means and they have made only a dent in the problem of translating the bible into lost languages. In fact even after the train translators they then must train teachers. You claim that Paul said the gospel was preached before 70AD. You misread this totally.

I will give you one example, I do not intend to spend my time doing this to every verse in scripture. You post 1:23 and leave off 1:24 Read now 1:24.

COL 1:24 Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. 25 I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness-- 26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. 27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Stop defending what cannot be defended. You are wrong. What if others follow you? James said that not many should be teachers,,,,ever read that? Read James.



Blessings

 

[davo]

Originally posted by eldermike
You claim that Paul said the gospel was preached before 70AD. You misread this totally.

I will give you one example, I do not intend to spend my time doing this to every verse in scripture. You post 1:23 and leave off 1:24 Read now 1:24.

COL 1:24 Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. 25 I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness-- 26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. 27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Stop defending what cannot be defended. You are wrong. What if others follow you? James said that not many should be teachers,,,,ever read that? Read James.

eldermike, apart from quoting the next 4 verses -which is good, how does that refute what Paul CLEARLY said in verse 23? Can you actually provide an argument or reason for discounting Paul's "...and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven..."

davo

 

[parousia70]

Originally posted by eldermike

Stop defending what cannot be defended. You are wrong. What if others follow you? James said that not many should be teachers,,,,ever read that? Read James.

I LOVE the Book of James! (and I'm not wrong, so I'll continue in vigorous defense)

I'm glad you brought up James, perhaps you can enlighten me about something James said:

Jesus told his disciples, James among them, that He would not be "near & at the door" until they saw certain signs. (Matt 24:33) Before the signs were seen, they knew He was not "near & at the door", Jesus makes it clear that only after the signs were seen, was He in fact, "Near & At the door".


James, writing 30 some odd years later, Said some exciting things!
James 5:8-9
8 You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near. 9 Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned. Behold, the Judge is standing at the door!

Eldermike,

James was instructed By Jesus directly that He would not be "near & at the doors" until certain signs were seen.

Did James see the signs?

 

[eldermike]

-- 26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. 27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Davo,,these verses are the explanation.

 

[eldermike]

P70,

If I say to my kids, act as if I were with you, am I saying to them that I will be with them?. You read scripture using P70 as a guide.

Blessings

 

[jenlu]

And you seem to be changing scripture...unlike yourself when you say that to your kids.....Isn't Jesus actually with us?

 

[eldermike]

something just went over my head, did you hear it?

 

[jenlu]

Don't you teach your kids that if you ask Jesus into your heart then He will come and live within you...and live through you as you give up your will to His...

 

[parousia70]

Originally posted by eldermike
P70,

If I say to my kids, act as if I were with you, am I saying to them that I will be with them?. You read scripture using P70 as a guide.

Blessings

I'm not sure what point you are making, but did you answwr my question about James?
Did he see the signs?
Was he wrong?
Is there a 3rd option?

 

[davo]

Originally posted by eldermike
26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. 27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Davo,,these verses are the explanation.

Yes! and as stated by Paul in verse 23 declared to ALL under heaven -already, fulfilling the command of Jesus.

davo

 

[eldermike]

wooooshhhhhhhhh

are you kids? What are your ages?

 

[eldermike]

Last post about pre something or other.

(Just for the one that I can't read the name because the color matches the background) Yes I teach my kids that Jesus is always with them. (actually my youngest is 24, she is teaching Her kids)
To the pre-folk:

This is the wackiest view of scripture I have ever seen. I am 53 and you folks are the first Pre-whatever's I have ever talked too. I had heard of it but I thought it was a joke. I must have lead a sheltered life even while working on my pastoral ministry degree. Some millions and millions of Christians before and now disagree with you. Of course, they could all be wrong and you after 2000 years just figured it all out. Based on your responses I will venture that pride is the driving force behind your need to be the ones that save us all the trouble of taking traditional views of Christian faith. You have a need to be different, what is wrong with a Mohawk? it worked fine in my day.

I will not respond with scripture anymore because I tired 3 times and the bible says, that's it. As long as you have this shield of pride you will not learn.


Good luck, (I don't use that very often)

 

[davo]

With all due respect to your "pastoral ministry degree" surely you know that stating a scripture without explaining how it applies etc isn't a real successful response -nor is belittleling remarks re pride etc.

The message of the mystery of "Christ in you" to the Gentiles -hidden in ages past but now revealed -which the verses you quoted say, WAS what Paul said WAS preached in all the world

davo

 

[Mike Beidler]

Originally posted by eldermike
Last post about pre something or other.

To the pre-folk: This is the wackiest view of scripture I have ever seen. I am 53 and you folks are the first Pre-whatever's I have ever talked too. I had heard of it but I thought it was a joke. I must have lead a sheltered life even while working on my pastoral ministry degree. Some millions and millions of Christians before and now disagree with you. Of course, they could all be wrong and you after 2000 years just figured it all out. Based on your responses I will venture that pride is the driving force behind your need to be the ones that save us all the trouble of taking traditional views of Christian faith. You have a need to be different, what is wrong with a Mohawk? it worked fine in my day.

All due respect, sir, if you are a pre-tribulation "whatever," then 99% of the church disagreed with you for the first 1830 years.

Preterism is not new, simply revived. Just as dispensational eschatology has become more and more systematized over the decades, so has preterism. Heck, look at Christian doctrine in general! The full doctrine of the Trinity, although explicitly and implicitly taught in Scripture, did not come to fruition until the 4th century.

What you fail to realize, sir, is that many, many biblical scholars throughout the ages had preterist leanings or interpretations of major prophetic discourses (although not necessarily embracing a "fully realized" eschatology); just check out http://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/index.html

Oh, yeah ... before you go calling my views wacky, I suggest you spend a little of that hard-earned money on a few books:

The Last Days According to Jesus by R. C. Sproul
The Parousia by J. S. Russell
Last Days Madness and End Times Fiction by Gary Demar
Beyond the End Times by John Noe
Before Jerusalem Fell by Kenneth Gentry

When you've read those books, then you can come back and rip on us preterists. The only joke I see here is a prideful person who attempts to tear down a view without making a serious attempt at understanding it first. Once again, I suggest you immerse yourself in preterist theology before you attempt a lucid refutation of it.

 

[eldermike]

Paul said He preached to all the nations as an admission of obedience, that is what we are commanded to do.
He didn't take credit for preaching to all nations, only to obedience to the commission He had been given.

If you understand what I just wrote, turn from this strange view.

Paul also said He had run the race, fought the fight, won in fact. But had He?,, or is this about obedience to a commission.

I am sorry if I seen harsh to you. To rebuke is not fun but I have found myself in this situation and I will rebuke.

Where I have been mean spirited, I am sorry.

Blessings

 

[davo]

Originally posted by eldermike
Paul said He preached to all the nations as an admission of obedience, that is what we are commanded to do.
He didn't take credit for preaching to all nations, only to obedience to the commission He had been given. 

Paul never said he preached to all nations; what was said was that -the gospel has gone into all the world. No one was saying Paul took credit for anything -what he did state was that it had been done. And no one is saying we are therefore absolved from continuing to do likewise.

Mt 24:14 is fulfilled -Rom 1:8, 10:18, 16:26. Col 1:5-6; 23. [Act 2:5-11, 17:6].

davo

 

[eldermike]

Jesus said: FIRST, the gospel will be preached to all the nations. THEN, this generation will not pass before He returns.

Which generation? The obedient generation.
Was the generation He was speaking too, an obedient generation. NO! in fact, they crucified Him....

The bible is true....Jesus will return when a generation takes the gospel to the nations.

Jesus said: It would be easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to go to heaven.
Can camels go through the eye of a needle?
Why did He say this? So you could learn His teaching method. So that: "of whom much has been given, much is required". If you want to understand scripture, study the parables with a good teacher, learn the way Jesus taught.
Then go back and see if Jesus wasn't calling us to a commission using His perfect teaching method. Did He condemn all rich people, or just challenge them. Did He call us to a commission or come back because the commission was fulfilled?

You can't base your doctrine on a literal translation of Matt 24. When did Jesus speak literally? How many times? Did the followers recognize His literal conversation?

JN 16:25 "Though I have been speaking figuratively, a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my Father. 26 In that day you will ask in my name. I am not saying that I will ask the Father on your behalf. 27 No, the Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God. 28 I came from the Father and entered the world; now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father."

JN 16:29 Then Jesus' disciples said, "Now you are speaking clearly and without figures of speech. 30 Now we can see that you know all things and that you do not even need to have anyone ask you questions. This makes us believe that you came from God."

Learn the teaching method of Jesus. He has not returned. The Bible has not been preached. I was called to preach, why? Because he is still calling preachers.

Matt 24 is about obedience, it's not literal in any way, it's consistent with His teaching method.

When Jesus comes back the world will know it, all will know it, you will not have to discover it using translation methods.


I will tone down a bit. Forgive me for being so forceful. I can assure you it's not pride, it's actually a fear that this wrong teaching will pull people away from the great commission. If I can't show you where this is wrong, please show me how you view effects your Christian walk. What is your view of the great commission?

Blessings

 

[parousia70]

Originally posted by eldermike
If I can't show you where this is wrong, please show me how you view effects your Christian walk. What is your view of the great commission?

Blessings

 

Mike,

My view of our Great comission today is summed up nicely in Revelation 22:17

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

This is us today,  calling out from inside the Holy City we inhabit, to all who thirst to "COME!, Drink freely!".

Eldermike, Why do you think those on the New Heavens and earth, inside the New Jerusalem, are still calling out to all who thirst to come in and drink? Who is thirsty on the New Heavens and earth? The Unsaved of course! For Jesus said  "one drink and ye shall never thirst again"

The Gospel, which sole purpose is to be "preached to sinners on earth"(Revelation 14:6) has no "use by" or "expiration" date. It is everlasting. It is given to always be preached to sinners on earth. Forever. There is no time prophesied where the Everlasting Gospel is to stop being preached to sinners. An end to the purpose of the everlasting Gospel simply dosen't exist.

In Christ's Victory,

P70

 

[eldermike]

Thanks for your answer. One more question if you don't mind.
eschatological events: 2'nd coming of Christ - resurrection of the dead - Judgment day - end of the world
Are all of these "spiritual events"?

Can you also tell me how you get around the physical description of New Jerusalem ? and tell me how to get around 1st Corinthians ch. 15.

I said I wasn't going to do this. Did you consider my explanation concerning obedience? can you tell me how you reject it?

Blessings