How Christ completed our salvation.

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Originally posted by Auntie_Belle_Um

if a Christian says you are not a Christian, it should be a warning to you that you have believed a lie, you have been misled. It is not meant as an insult.

Ok Auntie, Just so I'm clear, you are saying that all it takes, is for a Christian to say you are not a christian, to make it true?

So If any Christian calls you, auntie, not a Christian, you then have been rendered not a Christian? Just by their declaration?

WOW.

Don't you run into a problem with that however?
what seems to me to be an inherant difficulty in your premise, is that how can you know that the person calling you "un-christian" is in fact a Christian themselves?

In fact, How do I know that you are a Christian auntie? I mean, you say you are, and I really have no reason to doubt you, but can I really know, without a doubt, what is in your heart?

Isn't that something only "God" knows for sure?
They can talk the talk but do they walk the walk in their heart? Do you know what is in the heart of every individual aunti? That would be amazing if you did, then you could in fact tell who is Christian and who isn't without a doubt. You actually believe you can do that?
As for me, you'll never find making any such claim that I pretend to "know" who is Christian and who isn't for That's someything only God knows for sure, and I must bow to His superiority. But hey, you certainly have every right to believe you have the same ability as God to tell who is Christian and who isn't, so, have at it!

Originally posted by Auntie_Belle_Um
The heart of the Bible is reconciliation to God and to each other, and that reconciliation was accomplished at the Cross of Jesus the Christ. No eschatology needed to tell the story of salvation. No need to study the Greek. If I know nothing more than Christ Crucified, I know all I need to know to love the Lord and accept His free gift of salvation.

What a coincidence, thats exactly what I believe!

I guess I'm confused by your flip-floping.

On one hand, you accuse preterists of not being Christians because of our eschatology, then in the same breath, you affirm my original asertion that ones eschatology has no bearing on ones salvation.

Which is it really.....?

Your Brother in Christ,
P70
 
Upvote 0
This is a post from Terry cz the second coming of Christ.

All of christianity is false. Your Jesus said in Matthews 10 :23 that he would return before his disciples went through the cities of Israel. That did not happen so he is a false prophet.

Againg You Jesus said in matthew 16:28 that his disciples would not die before he returned. That did not happen either which makes Jesus a false prophet.
 
Upvote 0

GTX

<font size=1><font color=gray><b>Rapid Transit Aut
Nov 24, 2001
1,037
1
✟1,444.00
Although salvation was completed before the foundation of the world (1 Peter 1:19-20). It had to be worked out over time. For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God (1 Corinthians 1:18). Notice here that Paul says they are being saved.

All born again Christians are saved! We are all saved because Jesus died for our sins.

Jesus' return will be glorious, and there will be no question if he has come already, Preterism only reinforces the truth.

This is not Christ's Kingdom
 
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Originally posted by GTX


This is not Christ's Kingdom

Really?

If this isn't Christs Kingdom, then Christ isn't King of the earth today. Be careful if that is what your are saying, because scripture contradicts that opinion of yours.

Eph. 1:20-21
20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.


Am I correct in my assertation from your above comment that you do not Believe Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords, Highest King of the earth today, ruling over all creation?

You may want to rethink that........
 
Upvote 0

Mandy

Well-Known Member
Dec 28, 2001
3,482
8
51
California
Visit site
✟7,109.00
1Cor 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

1Cor 15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.

1Cor 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

1Cor 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


What do these verses mean to preterists?
Does the Bible not teach that when the Messiah reigns, He will reign with a rod of iron?
 
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Originally posted by Mandy


1Cor 15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.




Mandy, perhaps you could explain how Christ has not yet been absolutely victorious over the enemy death.

He either has achieved absolute victory over death, or He hasn't.

Which do you believe to be true?
 
Upvote 0

jenlu

Active Member
May 29, 2002
246
2
Visit site
✟625.00
Parousia...

As you probably know, I do not hold the majority of the views of dispensationalist and I do hold the majority of views of preterists...but AN answer to your question to Mandy I once heard from a postmillenialist(as you know a postmillenialist believes all but the Last Day/Ressurrection Day has happened)...His logic, and he used scripture to support it, was that there is a definite(ressurrection of Christ), progressive,(this age), and final(the Last Day) type fulfilment described in scripture...what do you think of this...?
 
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Hi Jen,

The issues for me with that logic are:

1) Jesus placed a terminus on the fulfillment of all things written about him,(Luke 24:44) and he placed that terminus at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70.(Luke 21:20-22) I just can't find a way to justify seperating the destruction of death out if "all things written about Jesus by the Law and the Prophets"

2) When we're talking about "this age", do we mean the "this age" of scripture? If so, there are several ways to show from scripture that the Christian age is not the "this age" of scripture. The "this age" of scripture was the old covenant age. This excercise alone is a real eye opener, for if it can be established that we are living in a different age than the "this age" of scripture (which it can) then the only scrptural age left that we could be in is the "age to come". (If this is an area you are interested in exploring, let me know, cause it's worth a seperate thread)

I have found The Idea that Ad 70 was a "type" of coming but not "the" coming at the end of the age is very difficult to support.

Jesus was the fulfillment. He did not come to usher in another age (Christian age) of types and shadows. Was calvary a mere "type" of some future, greater sacrifice and redemption from sin?

Either 70 AD was "the "coming at the end of the age", or it was not a "coming" at all.
 
Upvote 0

Mandy

Well-Known Member
Dec 28, 2001
3,482
8
51
California
Visit site
✟7,109.00
Originally posted by parousia70


Mandy, perhaps you could explain how Christ has not yet been absolutely victorious over the enemy death.

He either has achieved absolute victory over death, or He hasn't.

Which do you believe to be true?

Victory belongs to Jesus period, but the point is that all things have yet to be put under His feet.

Let me put it this way: When were your sins paid for, when Jesus died or when you recived Him?


What about the fact that Jesus is to rule with a rod of iron?
 
Upvote 0

GTX

<font size=1><font color=gray><b>Rapid Transit Aut
Nov 24, 2001
1,037
1
✟1,444.00
Yeah P70, Christ is not here yet. Look at the sin and evil in the world. What are you saying Christs Kingdom dwells in our hearts?

If you believe the scriptures and Revelation, it is clear that Christ has not come yet.

I believe your logic has good intentions but is not believable.

Are you guys for real?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

aggie03

Veritas Vos Liberabit
Jun 13, 2002
3,031
92
Columbus, TX
Visit site
✟19,529.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Originally posted by Manifestation1*AD70
This is a post from Terry cz the second coming of Christ.

All of christianity is false. Your Jesus said in Matthews 10 :23 that he would return before his disciples went through the cities of Israel. That did not happen so he is a false prophet.

Againg You Jesus said in matthew 16:28 that his disciples would not die before he returned. That did not happen either which makes Jesus a false prophet.

Christ did return before all of those things happened - He died and returned when He was raised from the dead. He wasn't speaking of a second coming some time in the future, thousands of years later, He meant three days after He died. He told the truth, He is the Messiah, the Christ, the son of God.
 
Upvote 0

aggie03

Veritas Vos Liberabit
Jun 13, 2002
3,031
92
Columbus, TX
Visit site
✟19,529.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married

Most Christians are quick to admit that we see thru a glass darkly, as none of us have all the answers. The true hallmark of a false "Christian" movement is they know all the answers and can back up everything with scripture. The Jehovah Witnesses do it every day.

I believe that the true hallmark of a Christian is that they can prove their faith through the scripture. We are told to study to show ourselves approved unto God - that means that you have to read the Bible and be able to answer for your faith. Why would 1 Peter 3:15 tell us always to be prepared to give an answer if we weren't supposed to? All of the answers to your questions are in the Bible, just because you can't find them doesn't mean that anyone who can isn't a Christian. Also, that doesn't mean that everyone who can is a Christian. There are those who have misinterpreted scripture and can give answers based upon those mistakes.

You should always read the Bible, and you should always be able to back up your faith with the complete Bible not just segments, for all scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness so that the man of God may be thuroughly equipped for every good work (2 Timothy 3:16,17). Our faith should be based off of everything that the Bible says, taken in context - otherwise you wind up with false doctrines, which I'm sure is something we all wish to avoid.
 
Upvote 0

aggie03

Veritas Vos Liberabit
Jun 13, 2002
3,031
92
Columbus, TX
Visit site
✟19,529.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Originally posted by GTX
No, Christ hasn't returned. Please be patient he will, maybe not in our lifetime, but he is coming, be patient.

I know, I am excited about this too.

If Christ didn't rise from the dead and return to his disciples, how did Thomas put his fingers in His wounds?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums