How can you be against abortion but for the death penalty?

[Ave Maria]

Hi everyone. I have noticed over the years that a lot of people who are pro-life are also for the death penalty. Why is this? If you are for the preserving of one life then why are you for the destruction of another? Wouldn't it be more consistent to be against both abortion and capital punishment?

Now, don't get me wrong, I definitely believe that abortion is murder. However, I see the death penalty as more of a form of revenge than a form of justice and the Bible clearly tells us not to seek revenge:

Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God; for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord." No, "if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals upon his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
(Romans 12:19-21 RSV-CE)

I also realize that the unborn are innocent of sin except for original sin while those condemned to death are guilty of actual sin.

Also, the Bible says to love your enemies:

But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
(Matthew 5:44-45 RSV-CE)

So how is putting a criminal to death loving them? I mean all law abiding citizens could say that criminals are enemies of society. So how is putting them to death loving them? Wouldn't it be more loving to let them live their whole life in prison? At least then they have more time to repent of their evil deeds.

This is not to mention the fact that there have been innocent people put to death by capital punishment. It has happened before and it could easily happen again.

Also, I personally see capital punishment as cruel and unusual punishment. Doesn't the Constitution or some other law forbid cruel and unusual punishment?

 

[Godel]

One can support the protection of one and the destruction of the other because it's apples & oranges. Capital punishment is simply a just punishment in some cases. Scripture (NT, not just OT) supports the government's authority to use capital punishment. Yes, God will repay, vengeance is His. He has the authority. Having that authority also means He can delegate it to whom He sees fit to. And He has seen fit to give that authority to the government (Romans 13:3-4).

Punishment does not preclude love & forgiveness. Parents punish their children all the time. Does that mean the parent no longer loves the child? Does the parent not forgive the child since there was a punishment? God commanded the death penalty for several crimes in the OT. Did God no longer love those people? Love & forgiveness does not mean a free pass on punishment.

"Cruel & unusual"? You would rather lock them up in prison for the rest of their lives? Are you aware of the atrocities prisoners commit on one another on a daily basis? Subjecting someone to that every day for the rest of their life seems far more cruel.

 

[Resha Caner]

Hi everyone. I have noticed over the years that a lot of people who are pro-life are also for the death penalty. Why is this? If you are for the preserving of one life then why are you for the destruction of another? Wouldn't it be more consistent to be against both abortion and capital punishment?

You basically answered your own question with the following statement:

I also realize that the unborn are innocent of sin except for original sin while those condemned to death are guilty of actual sin.

Even though the unborn are tainted by original sin, they are "innocent" in that no action of theirs led to the decision to abort. Abortion is all about what are perceived as someone else's needs. The unborn child plays no part in that decision and is only a victim of it.

On the other hand, punishment of a criminal is directly linked to the crime he commited (at least theoretically).

This is not to mention the fact that there have been innocent people put to death by capital punishment. It has happened before and it could easily happen again.

There are also innocent people put in prison. Should we eliminate prisons so that doesn't happen? No. The solution is to do the best we can to make sure the action taken against criminals is fitting.

Also, I personally see capital punishment as cruel and unusual punishment. Doesn't the Constitution or some other law forbid cruel and unusual punishment?

Mistakes will always be with us. The process leading to execution in the U.S. has indeed become tortuous. The executions themselves are not necessarily cruel, but the way the process becomes drawn out, leaving both the families of the victims and the perpetrator in extended limbo is often cruel. Again, the answer is to reform the system, not eliminate it.

Is prison really any less cruel? Prisons can be very nasty places. Personally, if I were the convict, I'd rather have the death penalty than a life sentence.

And, yes, some people want a death sentence for revenge. That should not be the reason. Punishment should be about reform, deterence, and restitution ... and, in some cases, that makes a death sentence appropriate. When looking at scripture in that regard, be careful not to pick the verses that suit your sentiments. There are plenty of places where God calls for someone's death. So, I don't think the Bible rules out a death penalty. At the same time, one should understand the gravity of applying it.

 

[LostMarbels]

Hi everyone. I have noticed over the years that a lot of people who are pro-life are also for the death penalty. Why is this? If you are for the preserving of one life then why are you for the destruction of another? Wouldn't it be more consistent to be against both abortion and capital punishment?

Wow this really hits a cord with me. First of all let me say I find it appalling that the rights of a convicted felon are considered equal to the rights of an unborn child. I am a ex con having served a 10 year bit, and as such I have a little of an inside knowledge of prison. I believe in and support both prison, and the death penalty. It is obvious to me that any one that can ask about the rights of people in prison do not know the evil contained in those walls. Nor do they understand the plights of the victims of the convicted. For every convict, there are victims. My first bunk mate was Edwin Bernard Kaprat. You can Google him. He was a serial murderer and rapist of elderly women Know as the " granny killer ". Point being, until you look into the soulless eyes of evil, you can not understand. I can with all my heart justify his death. I fully understand the penalty for the sins this man committed. I saw the tears and the pain from the families he victimized. I heard him brag about what he'd done. Yes, I can fully with a clear conscience condone this man's death. And take it from me its not a matter of vengence. Its a matter of justice. The victims deserve justice. I find myself at a point where I can forgive him his sin, but If given the power over him I could not justify taking away his punishment. Actions must have consequences. The victims rights must supercede that of the aggressors. I hope he found Christ...... he was murdered in prison. I cannot shake the feeling that justice was done. He was an evil man. How dose this compare to an unborn child? I'm sorry, but I don't see the parallel connection. An unborn child is innocent, and has caused no harm to anyone. How can I justify the death of innocents? To me its kind of the same reason people despise pedophiles so much. How could you harm a child? How could you in any way kill a child? Its beyond me how it could be condoned.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Hi everyone. I have noticed over the years that a lot of people who are pro-life are also for the death penalty. Why is this? If you are for the preserving of one life then why are you for the destruction of another? Wouldn't it be more consistent to be against both abortion and capital punishment?

Now, don't get me wrong, I definitely believe that abortion is murder. However, I see the death penalty as more of a form of revenge than a form of justice and the Bible clearly tells us not to seek revenge:

Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God; for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord." No, "if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals upon his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
(Romans 12:19-21 RSV-CE)

I also realize that the unborn are innocent of sin except for original sin while those condemned to death are guilty of actual sin.

Also, the Bible says to love your enemies:

But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
(Matthew 5:44-45 RSV-CE)

So how is putting a criminal to death loving them? I mean all law abiding citizens could say that criminals are enemies of society. So how is putting them to death loving them? Wouldn't it be more loving to let them live their whole life in prison? At least then they have more time to repent of their evil deeds.

This is not to mention the fact that there have been innocent people put to death by capital punishment. It has happened before and it could easily happen again.

Also, I personally see capital punishment as cruel and unusual punishment. Doesn't the Constitution or some other law forbid cruel and unusual punishment?

Not to beat a dead horse (no pun intended) but the way I look at it is this...

Abortion = killing an innocent, unborn child who has not even had the chance at life

Death Penalty (with the exception of those condemned falsely) = killing a guilty and condemned by jury criminal who did something worthy of receiving such a penalty....

I don't know if I agree with the Death Penalty, I think those who do such things could be given life w/o parole or something, but I'm not going to fan an argument here as I could definitely understand those who advocate for it. Considering that the death penalty is only given by a jury, it's hard to say that the death penalty is a form of revenge.

 

[St_Worm2]

I have noticed over the years that a lot of people who are pro-life are also for the death penalty. Why is this? If you are for the preserving of one life then why are you for the destruction of another? Wouldn't it be more consistent to be against both abortion and capital punishment?

Hi Ave Maria, have you ever noticed how the exact opposite is true as well, that those who oppose the death penalty for adults, typically support the death penalty for pre-borns?

Why is this true? I think it all comes down to "responsibility". One group, the Pro-Life // Pro-death penalty group, clearly believes that people should be held responsible for their actions, while the other group, clearly does not.

That's my 2 cents anyway.

--David

 

[Person of]

Capital punishment is stupid when you can just lock them up. According to the Bible, death was given because of a fruit, yet we try to judge others.

Truly hypocritical, since all deserve death.

 

[bach90]

For me, it is about what Scripture says. The NT does not specifically say that abortion is wrong. However the command to not kill, coupled with the scientific evidence that supports life beginning very early in the womb, leads me to believe that abortion is wrong. I would also point to the horrible effects that abortion has on women's lives afterwards, the feelings of guilt are rampant and Christians have to help women who are victimized by this system of death. Abortion as a method of birth control after consensual sex can never be allowed.

OT passages used to support the death penalty are not particularly helpful; those laws were for a certain time for a certain nation. However, the NT clearly supports the right of the authorities to exercise the sword:

Romans 13:1-5 (NRSV):

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities; for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you wish to have no fear of the authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive its approval; or it is God’s servant for your good. But if you do what is wrong, you should be afraid, for the authority does not bear the sword in vain! It is the servant of God to execute wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be subject, not only because of wrath but also because of conscience.

This however does not mean that the state should be executing people left and right, that would be horrific. I believe that those who would cite Scripture as always being against the death penalty have no real basis (from Scripture) for doing so. Other arguments can be made against the death penalty, but certainly not from the Bible. However, Christians can disagree about how often the death penalty should be applied. It should be reserved for the most serious crimes, after a thorough investigation, and if there is no other way to keep the public safe. In the USA, this situation would be quite rare, given SuperMax prisons located in the Rocky Mountains can hold the most violent and evil offenders. However, in remote villages in Africa and Asia, the death penalty may be the only way to guarantee that a murderer or a rapist will never commit their crimes on the population again. Governments have the responsibility to keep the innocent safe.

 

[klibera]

Intriguing question-that is man's burden the struggle for conscience. Nothing is to be arrived easily but with fair contemplation. I personally prefer to call myself anti-abortion because of this sticking point. How justify our stands? Answer is probably more profound than we think. First on the abortion issue. Yes it's wrong. A fetus is a person because as John Paul said it would not have been anything else (a tree, a flower, etc.). Fetuses don't get to vote-point number 2. It's easy to dismiss them. Point number 3-back in 1973 Roe vs Wade-we did not have the technology we have now to appreciate what we know now. I wish the left wing politicians could see this but their lust for votes & power ensures their stubbornness. Point 4-these pro-abortion people are thinking in man's manner, not God's. Now with regard to the idea that we are not a theocracy, we are a democratic republic-I understand that & I think I can appreciate the difficulty of rape & incest, & health reasons, & war. The decision is too hard for anyone. I don't believe for a minute that women who have had abortions end up in hell. I'll cut them slack. Their emotional burden is not assuaged once the abortion is completed. They chose this route so they must bear the mental burden through & through. Now with regard to the death penalty & why conservatives tend to be for it. How can one be for it? Simple. Death penalty cases for juries are made to be mental, contemplative struggles. That is their burden that it should not be an easy decision. The state goes to great lengths to ensure defendants get a fair shake & due process is observed. We even to our credit in our laws distinguish between crimes that have the same outcome by imposing degrees & considering the manner of the crime. We weigh the heinousness of the crime & whether the victim suffered. We weigh whether it is a hate crime or whether it's against a targeted class of people. We weigh whether the crime is a crime of passion or fleeting impulse or one with deeply held motivation or whether it was psychosis or mental defect. The turning point for us is that we as the instrument of the state accept the responsibility that we are making a fateful decision--one with no easy answer--because God simply does not give us an easy answer. We accept the decision that it may not be the ethical or moral thing & we accept it as fallible human beings. We are not perfect but society calls on us for a decision & it should come at great mental contemplation & we must think of the victims. In some cases we decide that life in prison might serve better because as long as the key is thrown away the convicted has all of life to think about the crime or in some cases, some of these people locked up can actually take on a positive redemptive role by working spiritually with other prisoners. I think too what some juries weigh is whether the person would be an absolute threat to society. I certainly would weigh that. Firmly I believe that the worst of criminals or terrorists or dictators is that those who dwell outside the realm of God--outside the normalcy of human fallibility--these can't be rehabilitated & they must be extinguished. You cannot rehabilitate Satan & why would you want to. I recall this line from the movie Dracula when Prof. Van Helsing spoke of Lucy as dwelling outside the realm of God. Dwelling completely outside the realm of God is much more extreme than everyday sins. Now as most people know in places like Iran, Saudi Arabia, China they give the death penalty at literally every offense. It creates order alright. But I ask what is within the typical range of human fallibility? The everyday thief. Harsh penalty for the everyday thief. I think God knows this. But tell me--who among us could have rehabilitated Manson, Stalin, Hitler, Nero, Pol Pot, Ben Laden? We just ain't that good. God gave them free will-they chose to dwell outside the realm of God.

 

[disciple1]

I am against the death penalty. And abortion I'm neither for or against.

Proverbs chapter 30 verse 6
Do not add to his words lest he rebuke you and prove you a liar.

1 Corinthians 4:6 ►








New International Version
Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.

So wheather abortion is right or wrong your putting yourself in Gods position because as it says In James chapter 4 there is only one law giver and judge the one who is able to save or destroy.
Now I know a lot of people believe it's wrong or right but I don't join a group to be friends with everyone I don't know if it's wrong or right and I can't be convinced until judgement day when I hear the great KING.

 

[Job8]

Hi everyone. I have noticed over the years that a lot of people who are pro-life are also for the death penalty. Why is this?

Short answer:

ABORTION = MURDER

DEATH PENALTY = PUNISHMENT FOR CAPITAL CRIMES (INCLUDING MURDER)

 

[Holoman]

If it wasn't for the death penalty, we wouldn't have a savior...

Anyway, I am against the death penalty for 2 reasons
1) Wrongful conviction, a death sentence can't be undone, a life sentence can
2) I believe that God should control life and death and I don't believe the US, or any state for that matter, acts on behalf of God.

The entire foundation of the correctional system is given away in the name. It is to correct people. To execute people means to deny them a chance for reflection, repentance and salvation. In practise I suspect very few ever repent and find Jesus, but some do, and isn't that worth it?

p.s. I'm also pro-life

 

[Soyeong]

The OT instruct both for us to love our neighbor as ourselves and to carry out the death penalty for certain crimes, so these are not at odds with each other. Love does not withhold justice.

 

[LadyApostolic]

Both are murder in my eyes. Killing unborn babies is obviously evil. Killing bad people for sins they commit seems good on the surface, but it's murder. You used almost every point I would make. If we kill someone who hasn't been redeemed, we are responsible for sending them to Hell, and their blood is on our hands.

 

[Soyeong]

Murder is unlawful killing, so if someone is lawfully executed for their crimes, then it can't be murder by definition. God could not at the same time command the death penalty for certain crimes and command not to murder if giving the death penalty counted as murder.

 

[Job8]

Murder is unlawful killing, so if someone is lawfully executed for their crimes, then it can't be murder by definition. God could not at the same time command the death penalty for certain crimes and command not to murder if giving the death penalty counted as murder.

Exactly. The wages of sin is death, and the penalty for murder is death also. If the death penalty were to be applied properly (and with due regard to establishing guilt) there would be fewer murders (a) because the murderers had been removed from society and (b) the deterrent effect of immediate execution would prevent many heinous crimes. Having a "death row" and years and years of appeals is not only stupid but perverts justice.

 

[RDKirk]

I don't think there is much to debate regarding abortion in a "Christians Only" theology section of the forum.

I chose you before I formed you in the womb;
I set you apart before you were born. -- Jeremiah 15

And public Christian opposition to abortion was established at least by the middle of the second century, because the apologist Athenagoras asserts to Caesar around 180 AD that the Christian opposition to abortion and infanticide is well known to Rome.

But scripture also says:

Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live? --Ezekiel 18

And then the Lord repeats:

Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. -- Ezekiel 33

Something we should understand about God: When He says something twice, that means He has established it, and definitely means it (Genesis 41:32).

So we have to understand, first, that the execution of the wicked may be permissible by God, but is not pleasing to Him--it's not the outcome He desires. Yet, we as Christians desire always to do that which is pleasing to God and that which He desires.

Yes, God permits the kings of this world to use the sword to keep order in their kingdoms...which we know are under the control of Satan (Luke 4). So the kings of this world use the methods of their own master, Satan, and God permits this for this season just as God permits men to divorce their wives.

That does not mean it's righteous--and God has asserted that He does not like it--only that it's permitted in this season.

Those factors indicate to me that to the extent Christians have any influence over the kings of this world, it should be in restraint against capital punishment to at most the very most necessary circumstances in the most egregious cases.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

I don't understand how a religion built on martyrdom has so many followers who defend things like abortion and the death penalty.
If Christianity were a color, it would be red. Christ was crucified, his followers were martyred, the saints are martyred, we even drink the blood and strive in a blood of a covenant. We are expected to shed ours if need be, and shed others in diligence.

There's more than enough blood to be spilling it out of revenge and vanity.

 

[Radrook]

Why should someone who has unjustly deprived someone else of life be allowed to gleefully enjoy life while his victim smolders in the grave?


“Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed, for in the image of God He made man” (Genesis 9:6).

BTW
Murderers go on living in comfort in prison, some getting interviewed and feeling notoriously important for the first time in their lives while showing no sign of remorse whatsoever. Breathe, eat, see, think and maybe even have sex while their victims have nothing.

 

[disciple1]

Why should someone who has unjustly deprived someone else of life be allowed to gleefully enjoy life while his victim smolders in the grave?


“Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed, for in the image of God He made man” (Genesis 9:6).

BTW
Murderers go on living in comfort in prison, some getting interviewed and feeling notoriously important for the first time in their lives while showing no sign of remorse whatsoever. Breathe, eat, see, think and maybe even have sex while their victims have nothing.

I'm neither for or against abortion the bible doesn't say one way or another.
1 Corinthians chapter 4
3 I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court. I don’t even judge myself. 4 I don’t feel I have done anything wrong. But that doesn’t mean I’m not guilty. The Lord judges me. 5 So don’t judge anything before the appointed time. Wait until the Lord returns. He will bring to light what is hidden in the dark. He will show the real reasons why people do what they do. At that time each person will receive their praise from God.
Psalm 139 verse 16
Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be.
And how can you be for the death penalty when you might keep some one from repentance.
Romans chapter 2 verse 4
Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?