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How can we win the 2020 election?

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by MorkandMindy, Oct 30, 2020.

  1. MorkandMindy

    MorkandMindy Senior Veteran Supporter

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    1. Don't vote Red or Blue, pick the executive likely to do the least damage.

    I think we all know that, but how do we do it?

    Both candidates are in similar positions on most things, the differences are:

    Pres. Trump guessed Corona virus wrong, completely wrong, and says some really odd things too.
    The Blue candidates this election want to increase immigration.

    Neither candidate is an obvious good pick, and there are a whole bunch of things they've both got wrong. So I need your help on this one.
     
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  2. Brightmoon

    Brightmoon Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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    Since immigration brings innovation to this country that could be a good thing or a bad thing . Frankly most of middle America is just empty we could hold extra people. I live in a cosmopolitan area and it’s seems to be a good thing if you’re not an immature person. I’m certainly not going to vote for someone who says that you can’t bring your children or your aged parents and grandparents here . That’s just selfishness
     
  3. durangodawood

    durangodawood Dis Member

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    For me one issue is rising well above all others: which candidate is deliberately doing the most to drive a splitting wedge right into the American people?

    I do believe that divisiveness and even our full on alternate "realities" have become the biggest threat to our republic. Choose on that basis, I say. And dont believe what the candidates/bloggers/internet-randos say about this. Open your own eyes.
     
  4. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Looks like you've already decided, so to speak, so it's difficult to take the question at face value.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
  5. MorkandMindy

    MorkandMindy Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Increased immigration has long been a Right-Wing policy.

    Increased immigration increases the workforce and therefore weakens the bargaining position of each person in the workforce.

    The claim is it reduces the cost of low-skilled labor and that benefits everyone (except the low skilled labor), or that raising the minimum wage will offset that disadvantage, so the low-skilled labor will be paid more, or of course be unemployed.

    Using the concept of 'employability' instead of just pay takes both the strength of the bargaining position and the rate of pay into account.

    Why would you want to pay more for things from a mass retailer? Of course you wouldn't if you are the person paying, but you might* if you were the person being paid. So push up the pay rates.

    And give everyone a 40-hour week.

    Retailing is seasonal, so the ability to vary the staffing level is good for the owners and since staff don't like getting bored, it is good for many of the staff as well. Many are female and make good use of free time to do projects in the house, and many of the men do the same. Older people often have other responsibilities and prefer shorter working hours.

    Increasing pay rates allows stores to sift through employees and hire younger faster ones. Overall the number of people employed goes down as a result and giving out 40 hour weeks also does this.
     
  6. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    That's why the President worked so hard to constrain it, eh? Built a wall, increase the border patrol, etc.

    You are talking about certain wealthy employers who, if truth be told, swing either way, Democratic or Republican, as needed. Meanwhile, liberal politicians have repeatedly criticized Trump for restricting even the influx of persons coming from countries that seek to do us harm. Or did you forget?
     
  7. MorkandMindy

    MorkandMindy Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The whole situation is changing at present as Andrew Yang pointed out and got completely ignored, gaining zero delegates in the Primary. There is a good way of dealing with the situation but I'm done with being insulted.
     
  8. Akita Suggagaki

    Akita Suggagaki Well-Known Member

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  9. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Well, it really doesn't matter, so far as this particular discussion is concerned, whether the wall is or was efficient or worth the effort or anything else like that.

    The point was that we all know it was a prime objective of President Trump (and is still in the process of being built), so the idea that "Right-Wing" policy has long favored increasing immigration is in error, and yet that's where this discussion was started.
     
  10. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    WE aren't going to win in this election. Either a Democrat or a Republican will win. WE lose. Best we can do is look outside of the two big parties, vote our consciences, and rest easy knowing we didn't contribute to the wrong guys winning.
     
  11. Desk trauma

    Desk trauma Atheist Capitalist Supporter

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    Now if some third party would put in the boring work of gaining local and state offices to build a base rather than these windmill tilting presidential campaigns.
     
  12. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Now if you would support someone who actually did instead of voting for your bad candidate simply to stop the other bad candidate.
     
  13. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Then you want to vote Libertarian, a party which has indeed done what you recommend.
     
  14. Desk trauma

    Desk trauma Atheist Capitalist Supporter

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    They need to be on the ballot first. There is No third party going for those boring less than executive level offices.
     
  15. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    The Libertarian Party is on every state ballot and runs candidates for the down-ballot offices in most of them.
     
  16. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Vote for who you want to. Vote Biden and you can get a corrupt guy past his mental prime that will soon be replaced by a socialist, just to stop Trump. Or vote for Trump if that excites you, so you can stay tuned to his tweets and stop Biden and socialism in our times. I can't vote for either of them.
     
  17. Desk trauma

    Desk trauma Atheist Capitalist Supporter

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    I already have, thanks.

    My point was that there were zero third party candidates running for any positions below governor in my state. If the are serious about being in government they need to start from the bottom not the top.
     
  18. childeye 2

    childeye 2 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't say that Trump simply guessed wrong. After all Trump will never say that. He has said himself that he knew the virus was five times more deadly than the flu, but rather than immediately implementing a rapid testing, tracking and containment of the contagion, he decided to let it spread and let the states deal with it while he focused on controlling the messaging so as to pass the responsibility for failure onto others. This has been corroborated by Jared Kushner and the chief of staff for Pence. This strategy costed tens of trillions of dollars to the economy and hundreds of thousands of lives.

    I don't see immigration as an issue to be used as a divisive wedge. But the cruel and inhumane treatment of those who are desperate and whose only hope is to seek sanctuary in America is a very serious concern to me regarding what occupies the soul of America. While immigrants are often the source of cheap labor, the fact is that work visas are legally used to do the exact same thing. The issue is complicated with such nuances including what to do with the DACA recipients. The issue should not be used as a political divisive narrative deceptively framed as either being for open or for secure borders.

    With that in mind, I vote for the person who I can plainly see is not trying to deceive people. I don't vote for any person whose messaging is insinuative and whose policy agenda is based in prejudice. The bottom line is I find it foolish to vote for someone who lies to the people.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
  19. MorkandMindy

    MorkandMindy Senior Veteran Supporter

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    We could be losing another 20 or 30% of existing jobs over the next decade and we will need to make up for those job losses through increased immigration.
     
  20. childeye 2

    childeye 2 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure how you can equate job losses with the need to increase immigration. America has grown it's economy for the past forty years by bringing in approximately 1 million immigrants a year. However, this and the increasing use of temporary work visas indicates to me a lack of workers rather than a lack of jobs to fill.
     
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