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Featured How can we resist that which we do not 'know'?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Imagican, Jul 29, 2017.

  1. Imagican

    Imagican old dude

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    Over the years, there have been times I have lamented my close association with Satan in the past, (and perhaps the present as well).

    But recently it has come to my attention that my past is what has led to my present. Each of us is on a journey. Some choose a path in darkness, some light.

    I feel that I was IN darkness for years and am now travel in 'light'.

    What if? What IF the only way I was ever able to 'find' the light was by living in darkness? I'll explain:

    What if every choice I have ever made had to be made in the manner it was made? I had choices but the choice that I made couldn't have been made ANY differently. For that is WHO I am. Those choices led me to where I am at today.

    So all those years I was a follower of Satan instead of God were NECESSARY in order to KNOW the Devil.

    Remember Christ in the desert? All indications throughout the entire Gospel are that Christ KNEW Satan. Didn't merely know his name, but KNEW him as an associate or fellow entity. That this was necessary for Christ to 'recognize' the enemy.

    May it not be the same with us? For how do we resist that which we do not recognize?

    If Satan is 'pretending' to BE God, how would one KNOW the difference if they were unable to recognize the Devil? If he is 'acting' like God and offering us 'feelings' that we are able to associate with God, how could we resist if we didn't KNOW it was Satan 'pretending' to be God?

    Think about this: What if at the precise 'time' that it mattered most, Satan presented himself to someone 'as God' and gave them 'feelings' to back up his deception. If one didn't know the difference between God and Satan, how could they TELL that Satan mimicking God wasn't God Himself?

    I know, for some this is probably confusing.

    But if Satan is going to lead the 'world astray', obviously he is only able to DO IT by convincing those he deceives that he is GOD. Most of the world is going to accept the deception. Not intentionally, but through ignorance.

    Yes, some are outright Satan worshipers. But the overwhelming majority are NOT intentionally worshiping Satan, but deceived.

    The Bible tells us this is so. Offers warnings NOT to be deceived. This means that it's up to US to defend ourselves from deception. God has offered the 'tools' to do so, but it's up to us to USE them. Resist the Devil and he will flee. This TELLS us that WE must do the resisting.

    Just as Christ resisted, we too are to follow the example.

    But what if? What if the first encounter we experience is Satan pretending to be God and he adds to the illusion a FEELING that leads us to BELIEVE he is God? How would we KNOW the difference? For it is my firm belief that this is exactly what has happened to most of the world around us. They have accepted Satan as God.

    That leads back to the beginning of what I have offered: Wouldn't it be NECESSARY to KNOW Satan in order to resist him? Otherwise, he knows EXACTLY how to mimic God and lead us to BELIEVE he IS God.

    Some follow Satan from the beginning and get to KNOW him really well. So when God reveals Himself through His Son, the difference is OBVIOUS. If you KNOW the Devil, then it is not near as difficult to recognize him verses God or His Son. But if you never really recognize the Devil for who he truly IS, how would you ever KNOW the difference?

    While I feel sorrow for that which I have performed contrary to the nature of God, I can't help but feel thankful that God allowed me to follow Satan in order to get to KNOW him so that now I recognize the DIFFERENCE.

    How many will never find this path? Never recognize the difference and be followers and worshipers of Satan in the guise of God without ever having the opportunity to 'turn away' or resist?

    The Bible tells us that if God allowed Satan unbridled influence, time would allow him to obtain exactly what he desires: to become the God of this world. The only way that it's possible for Satan to recognize his goal is for the ENTIRE world to worship him AS God.

    But we are told that to prevent this from taking place, God will, "cut the days short" in order to preserve His very elect. That means that ALL but His very elect WILL BE LED ASTRAY. Which leads to the conclusion that the rest of the world will be following Satan AS God. Led astray.

    Resist the Devil and he will flee. But you need to RECOGNIZE him in order to defend yourself FROM him. And how else knows BETTER how to mimic God than Satan himself?

    Blessings,

    MEC
     
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  2. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    My sheep know my voice.....
    John10:4
     
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  3. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Perhaps you can.
    I dunno. Who?
     
  4. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    I don't HAVE to sleep with a prostitute to resist sleeping with a prostitute.
    Unless you say I must. Then it's OK I guess.
     
  5. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

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    There's a difference between recognition and the Biblical "knowing". Knowing is yada in Hebrew, gnosko in Greek, and both imply intimate knowledge. Both can be used, for instance, to describe the relationship of husband and wife.

    Christ went into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. For that matter, He came into the wilderness of Creation itself. But at no point did He embrace the devil or sin. He walked completely sinlessly at all times. On the night He was taken, He declared the devil had nothing in Him. He is our model in all things.

    We all have made mistakes in the past. And perhaps we did things we now regret, but which were the best we knew to do at the time. We need to sort it out, ask forgiveness and come to peace about our pasts, and set our mind on following the Lord. In Romans 8:28 He promises to work all things for our good. That is an amazing promise, something we can hold onto when our past tries to overwhelm us.

    The important thing is to renounce what we now know is wrong, and to purpose to do right and honor the Lord, the only source of love and giver of life.

    Paul's attitude in Philippians 3 and 4 can be very helpful. It's all excellent, but here's one short excerpt:

    Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,
    I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. -Phil 3:13-14​
     
  6. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    There was this banker who could spot a counterfeit $20.00 or $100.00 bill in a split second and was asked how much time he spent studying counterfeit bills and he said “no time”, but I have spent lots of time studying real bills.

    If we want to avoid the false we need to spend time in the truth to recognize the false.

    Sometime we have to spiral down to the pigsty in our life before we bring ourselves to our senses (Like the prodigal son), but hopefully we can stop before reaching the bottom by coming to our senses early and seeing where we are headed.

    You past sinful life is to become an asset for you like it was for the apostle Paul. It becomes part of your witness, but even if you feel your past life is dramatically awesomely bad, I can assure you we all have just as important stories of our past sinful life and the change Christ has brought about.
     
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  7. Phantasman

    Phantasman Newbie

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    An excellent post, full of spiritual truths. I remember about 3 years ago when I was here, your name. You came as a seeker, if I remember right, and still are. Good for you. Someone who casts themselves as a certain tenet, has accepted the tenet, and the mind closes around the tenet.

    You are actually speaking as a person who is understanding that we have two gods at work. Which I have found to be true and that the Gospel says is true. But if you don't seek it you'll never find it.

    To believe that there is one line with God at one end and the devil at the other, and we are somewhere in between (depending on how far you are which way or the other) is what Orthodox teaches. Jesus saves us if we just believe. Once we believe, we are saved forever.

    But how does he save us and what is he truly saving us from?

    Draw a line in your mind. We travel on this line and call it God A. Man began on this line. And he has traveled on it from the beginning. This God created man. He is good.

    Now draw another line parallel to the first. This is God B. Place a circle part way up the line on God B. This circle represents Jesus. He is part of God B and not God A.

    God A is the creator of Body and Soul. But he is imperfect and ignorant of God A who is love. And who Jesus glorified. God A is a jealous God. As Jesus said, he is a liar and a murderer. He wants us to love the physical. His creation. He wants us to love the body. It is through him and his ignorance that our soul desires bodily things.

    God B is the Father (of our spirit). Jesus says it is the spirit that makes us alive. He tells us the the flesh profits nothing. The Father is perfect. He is light. And his son is the light of the world.

    But God A can appear as light and fool many. They will want both Gods, because they see profit in the flesh. They may hear Jesus say the flesh profits nothing, but they don't understand through following the ignorant God A. The OT is full of stories of God A giving physical things to flesh. Land. Kingdoms. Power over others.

    But Jesus said to seek first the kingdom of (true) God, which is spirit. That the poor benefit better than the (physical) rich.

    Now back away from both lines. When you back away far enough, you see that they are not parallel at all. The further they travel, the further they curve away from each other. One ends where God A is leading those who see him as (their) God towards outer darkness, where ignorance is and where love and light do not exist.

    But God B leads us to love, light and all knowledge of the Father.

    The influence of ignorance is called by many names. Satan, devil, Lucifer, demon, etc. But the influence of Truth is called Christ, which means chrism. When we receive the chrism, truth is revealed. We recognize both Gods. We see their works and methods. We see their paths. We see that the many questions even asked in this very forum are not even important to the Christian mind. People speak more of fear of death than of truth giving life.

    The Gospel (message) stands alone. It is life. It reaches beyond the Bible. Confusion comes when others try to combine the Gospel message with non gospel theologies. And that is what God A wants. It weakens Truth through ignorance.

    People will follow what men say over what God reveals:

    Most things in the world, as long as their inner parts are hidden, stand upright and live. If they are revealed, they die, as is illustrated by the visible man: as long as the intestines of the man are hidden, the man is alive; when his intestines are exposed and come out of him, the man will die. So also with the tree: while its root is hidden, it sprouts and grows. If its root is exposed, the tree dries up. So it is with every birth that is in the world, not only with the revealed but with the hidden. For so long as the root of wickedness is hidden, it is strong. But when it is recognized, it is dissolved. When it is revealed, it perishes. That is why the Word says, "Already the axe is laid at the root of the trees" (Mt 3:10). It will not merely cut - what is cut sprouts again - but the ax penetrates deeply, until it brings up the root. Jesus pulled out the root of the whole place, while others did it only partially. As for ourselves, let each one of us dig down after the root of evil which is within one, and let one pluck it out of one's heart from the root. It will be plucked out if we recognize it. But if we are ignorant of it, it takes root in us and produces its fruit in our heart. It masters us. We are its slaves. It takes us captive, to make us do what we do not want; and what we do want, we do not do. It is powerful because we have not recognized it. While it exists it is active. Ignorance is the mother of all evil. Ignorance will result in death, because those who come from ignorance neither were nor are nor shall be. [...] will be perfect when all the truth is revealed. For truth is like ignorance: while it is hidden, it rests in itself, but when it is revealed and is recognized, it is praised, inasmuch as it is stronger than ignorance and error. It gives freedom. The Word said, "If you know the truth, the truth will make you free" (Jn 8:32). Ignorance is a slave. Knowledge is freedom. If we know the truth, we shall find the fruits of the truth within us. If we are joined to it, it will bring our fulfillment.- Gospel of Philip
     
  8. Noxot

    Noxot tohu and bohu Supporter

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    very true and yet satan is the guy quoting scriptures and twisting them to his own evil image.

    so anything that is good and true can be used to deceive especially if a person is prideful and calls his brother a fool for no reason.

    and the knowing of God is more principally about being which then flows into that which our being is such as our perceptions. sin clogs up the higher parts of ourselves/being so that we can't recognize God. sheep are innocent even though they can foolishly get caught in brambles and die. a wolf won't pretend to be a wolf in sheeps clothing very long because it wants to act out its nature.

    so as a sheep I knew God because he did not try to destroy me like the bramble did.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
  9. Shempster

    Shempster ImJustMe Supporter

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    Interesting point of view.
    There are so many what-ifs involved in it that it all ends in speculation. Believe me, I have spent a good amount of time in study and pondering the subject.
    One thing is for sure if you want to be sure what is from God and what looks like it's from God but actually is not: If it is of God it will line up with the fruits of the spirit

    1. Love – 2. Joy – 3. Peace – 4. Longsuffering – 5. Kindness
    6. Goodness – 7. Faithfulness – 8. Gentleness – 9. Self Control

    or from the devil: the works of the flesh

    1.Adultery, 2. fornication, 3. uncleanness, 4. lasciviousness,
    5. Idolatry, 6. witchcraft, 7. hatred, 8. variance, 9. emulations, 10. wrath, 11.strife, 12.seditions, 13. heresies 14. Envyings, 15. murders, 16.drunkenness, 17. revellings, and such like
     
  10. Imagican

    Imagican old dude

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    But if you never have, you'll never KNOW what it was like.

    And MAYBE, a particular man, having SLEPT with a prostitute could be led to God from the experience.

    For often it is the recognition of sin that brings us to forgiveness.

    Blessings,

    MEC
     
  11. Imagican

    Imagican old dude

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    Yet there are many that BELIEVE they are the sheep of Christ yet are being led by Satan.

    So that may work for the ones that 'get it right'. But what about the rest?

    Those that were following Jim Jones BELIEVED they were being led by Christ. Yet look who was truly leading them...............

    Blessings,

    MEC
     
  12. Imagican

    Imagican old dude

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    Well, let us consider this: Satan was an angel serving God previous to his fall.

    I have NEVER lived with God nor served Him in Heaven.

    So if there is an 'entity' that would KNOW God and therefore how to mimic Him, it would most likely be Satan.

    Blessings,

    MEC
     
  13. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    The sheep get it right. Jesus said so
     
  14. Imagican

    Imagican old dude

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    Yep, still here, still me. Trudging the trenches hoping to plant some vibrant seeds.

    I see you 'get it'. Right or wrong, the concept IS valid.

    If the 'first God' one encountered made one FEEL that he had FOUND God, how could they possibly KNOW the difference if that 'first God' was Satan and Satan made them FEEL like they had 'found God'?

    We see many 'churches' throughout the past claiming to be followers of Christ yet torturing and murdering their followers that didn't adhere to their teachings.

    Is that the message of Christ?

    Of course not. Christ's message is FORGIVENESS, not torture and murder.

    So isn't it OBVIOUS that those 'churches' were NOT following Christ, but they BELIEVED they were.

    It is no different with the 'churches' today. To prove my point:

    Matthew 7:

    21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    Now ask yourself: "Who would claim to be 'doing' in the NAME of Christ other than those that were 'churches'?

    But the problem lies in 'entity'. These are not FOLLOWERS of the TRUE Christ, merely USING His name.

    So note, it's not those that SAY they are 'followers', but those that DO the will of His Father that will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

    The ONLY way Satan has a chance to fulfill his will is IF he is using the 'churches' to lead men astray. Otherwise, instead of ONLY His very elect, MILLIONS would be 'saved' when God 'cuts the days short'. The indication throughout the entire Bible is that FEW will be saved.

    Straight is the gate and narrow the way that leadeth unto life and FEW there be that find it. This doesn't even offer ALL that find it will follow it. So there will obviously be even FEWER that actually RECEIVE eternal life than those that 'find' the proper path.

    Blessings,

    MEC
     
  15. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    I think you have good point. And it can be really difficult when “Satan masquerades as an angel of light”. I think it is not necessary to know Satan if one knows God. And to know God, I think it is really important to know what the Bible says. Unfortunately, it seems that even “Christians” doesn’t know God well anymore.
     
  16. Noxot

    Noxot tohu and bohu Supporter

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    I think to be saved is sometimes meant in a very high and profound way. for instance paul was saved and look at the works he did. I would say that sometimes what "saved" means can vary and just because we are only just barely saved does not mean that we are not saved at all.

    in one sense the only one who is saved is the one body of Christ and he is saved by the resurrection his Father gives to him.

    or you can look at the symbols of Israel and all the other nations. God picked this one nation and not others. that is a spiritual symbol of only a few will be saved.

    but it's true that in general humanity has been carried on the back of only a few people in comparison to all the total people. then again you could say that that is not true because everyone does minor things that are useful.

    so this comes back down to the pearl of great price which is in everyone and all the fauna and flora on the land that the treasure is buried in has it's own glory but that one treasure that all your wealth is sold for is a symbol of the union with God.

    so the few that are saved is like the stone that only the one that it is given to knows which has a new name on it. but it requires that jezabel be cast into a sickbed and die or it requires that you be crucified with christ.

    think of it as the vision of revelation of all the angels and the further you go in to the vision the less you see. 24 elders, 4 living creature then 1 lamb... but that wholeness, all the angels are in heaven and all are united in God. so it's a kind of death to separation from God and death of evils and a full sanctification in the fullness of the age of ages.

    but all attention of all being is directed to one, thus showing what real unity is. a false unity would be like a vision of a crowd of angels but no directed attention of worship or like a group of people called the USA who has some kind of binding unity but is not at all united by the very fabrics of reality (God)
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
  17. Phantasman

    Phantasman Newbie

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    Agreed. I quit looking a long time ago for men or churches to answer my questions. The Gospel is available to everyone. How they treat it and use it is their choice. When I see one attacking the Gospel message, I draw it out. They either see it, or they argue.

    The Gospel is a mystery, that those who know the spirit understand and those that don't read it as the world does. The very books that help bring the Gospel into prospective is the very books people have been "trained" to never view. If you present something from them, people call you a blasphemer, devil or worse. But Christ was called the same things, and these books marry to the Canon Gospel message. They exalt the Gospel.
     
  18. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Nobody here has served him in Heaven yet either.
    But you seem to be treating other people at least
    as well as you would wish them to treat you, and
    so are serving the Holy Spirit well.

    Satan does hide, but is not famous for imitating
    God. He is kind of proud of who he is.
    Imitating God is not good for his ego.
     
  19. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    I've had enough exposure to prostitutes to know they are plain everyday people.
    Being with them is no big mystery. As building manager, they come to me
    when naked and afraid for their safety. Or too wasted to turn the door key.
    Or semi-paralyzed with hypoglycemia. Much as anyone would.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
  20. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    Ps. 5:6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the Lord shall abhor the bloody and decietful man.
    That the ascetic tendencies of the early Christian age were strongly stimulated , if not unconsciously mused by a leaven of Dualism, can hardly be doubted.That there is a God in heaven who fights against a god of the underworld, or hell, is not Monotheism, however, it is the same Duality found in other Pagan faiths.
     
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