How can We Know if We Know Him?

[GooFYone]

I read the Bible literally as far as possible, taking context into account.

I’m so glad The Holy Bible is also literally written.

 

[GooFYone]

Romans 3:23
None of us are free from sin.

That is absolutely right. Only in HIM can we be free from sin.

James 2:17-20 KJV

17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

 

[Dave L]

“The Spirit himself bears witness to our spirit that we are God’s children.” Romans 8:16 (NET)

 

[HARK!]

Yes, so back to my first reply to your OP

Paul is preaching the gospel of the uncircumcision to gentiles.

John is preaching the gospel of the circumcision to the Jews.

Different audiences, different instructions.

Paul was preaching the Gospel that was given to Abraham.


Galatians 3:8

New King James Version

8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”


Again, there is only one Gospel.

 

[HARK!]

Acts is a transitional period between the 2 gospels.

Paul preached the same Gospel that was given to Abraham:

Galatians 3:8
New King James Version

8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”

Galatians 1:8
King James Version

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

 

[Gary K]

I read the Bible literally as far as possible, taking context into account.

You appear to be a MAD to me from your arguments. I've never seen anyone but a MAD make your arguments.

The bifurcation of scripture by MAD is very distinctive.

 

[BobRyan]

what is MAD --- ?? Mothers against drunk driving?

 

[HARK!]

what is MAD --- ?? Mothers against drunk driving?

I was wondering the same thing. I was watching and waiting to see how this played out. Mothers against drunk driving is MADD.

 

[Gary K]

what is MAD --- ?? Mothers against drunk driving?

LOL. No, it's Mid Acts Dispensationalism. It's first real proponents were John Darby and Cyrus Scofield. They believe there are two gospels. There is the gospel of Jesus and the disciples that applies only to Jews. And there is the gospel of Paul which applies only to Gentiles. Therefore it bifurcates scripture.

Edit: They believe God treats the two groups differently by holding them to different standards. Therefore they claim, against scripture, that God changes.

John Darby wrote the Darby Bible. Here's a wikipedia article on him. John Nelson Darby - Wikipedia

Scofield wrote the Scofield Reference Bible. Here's a wikipedia article on him. C. I. Scofield - Wikipedia

If you do a deep dive on both of these guys you will find ties to the occult.

 

[Guojing]

You appear to be a MAD to me from your arguments. I've never seen anyone but a MAD make your arguments.

The bifurcation of scripture by MAD is very distinctive.

It came from reading Galatians 2:7-9 and Acts 21:20-25 in the KJV, and let the words say what they are saying, instead of changing them to say what you want them to say.

Every time I bring in Galatians 2:7-9, people are always replying with Galatians 1:8-9, and whenever I point out what happened in Acts 21:20-25 in reply, they go silent.

 

[Guojing]

Paul preached the same Gospel that was given to Abraham:

Galatians 3:8
New King James Version

8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”

Galatians 1:8
King James Version

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

The word gospel means good news. There is only one gospel that saves now, that is true. But God has more than one good news throughout OT.

If you go back and read the context in Genesis 15, the good news God preached to Abraham then was spelt clearly in Genesis 15:5.

For sure, Paul is not preaching to gentiles that so called "same" gospel that was preached to Abraham, otherwise all gentiles will have descendants as numerous as the stars in the skies.

As for you repeatedly using Galatians 1:8 as a rebuttal, I have already pointed out to you what happened in Acts 21:20-25 but you already declined to address that.

 

[HARK!]

The word gospel means good news. There is only one gospel that saves now, that is true. But God has more than one good news throughout OT.

If you go back and read the context in Genesis 15, the good news God preached to Abraham then was spelt clearly in Genesis 15:5.

For sure, Paul is not preaching to gentiles that so called "same" gospel that was preached to Abraham, otherwise all gentiles will have descendants as numerous as the stars in the skies.

Galatians 1:8
King James Version

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Galatians 3:8
New King James Version

8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Paul isn't cursing himself in his letter to the Galatians.

As for you repeatedly using Galatians 1:8 as a rebuttal, I have already pointed out to you what happened in Acts 21:20-25 but you already declined to address that.

The Jerusalem Council

There are two sides to this debate. I want to say right out of the gate, that you can't come back, 2000 years later, and add a third side to this debate.

The first group are non believers. they follow the traditions of men, the Talmud. They don't even keep the Torah.

(CLV) Ac 15:1
And some, coming down from Judea, taught the brethren that, "If you should not be circumcised after the custom of Moses, you can not be saved."

Their argument is that you cannot be saved unless you show the outward sign. This is not what Torah teaches. Was Abraham saved before or after he showed the sign?

Abraham wasn't circumcised until he was 99.

(CLV) Gn 17:24
Abraham was ninety-nine years old when he had the flesh of his foreskin circumcised.


Are disciples of Yahshua saved before or after Baptism?

Here is the other side of the Argument. These men are believers:


(CLV) Ac 15:5
Yet some from the sect of the Pharisees who have believed rise up, saying that they must be circumcised, besides charging them to keep the law of Moses.

This group argues that you must be circumcised to keep the law.

These are the only two arguments that are being made.

One is that you must be circumcised to keep the law of Moses. This is the law that Yahshua preached throughout his ministry unto death; as he called us to follow his example.

The other is that you must be circumcised to be saved. These are the only two sides to this debate.

You can't come in 2000 years later and add your own argument.

Here is the ruling:


(CLV) Ac 15:20
but to write an epistle to them to be abstaining from ceremonial pollution with idols, and prostitution, and what is strangled, and blood.



Leviticus 17
7 No longer shall they sacrifice their sacrifices to hairy goat-demons after whom they have been prostituting. An eonian statute shall this become for them throughout their generations. 8 To them you shall say:Any man from the house of Israel or from the sojourners who sojourn in your midst who should offer an ascent offering or a sacrifice 9 and not bring it to the opening of the tent of appointment to offer it to Yahweh, that man will be cut off from his kinsmen. 10 As for any man from the house of Israel and from the sojourners sojourning in your midst who should eat any blood, I will set My face against the soul eating blood, and I will cut him off from among his people, 11 for the soul of the flesh, it is in the blood, and I Myself have assigned it to you to make a propitiatory shelter over your souls on the altar; for the blood, in the soul it makes a propitiatory shelter. 12 Therefore I say to the sons of Israel:No soul at all of you shall eat blood; nor shall the sojourner sojourning in your midst eat blood. 13 Any man from the sons of Israel and from the sojourners sojourning in your midst who hunt a game animal or a flyer which may be eaten will pour out its blood and cover it with soil, 14 for the soul of all flesh is its blood; as its soul is it. So I said to the sons of Israel:The blood of any flesh you shall not eat, for the soul of all flesh, it is its blood. Everyone eating it shall be cut off.

This is of the bare minimum that newcomers must respect to even share table fellowship with believers.

Why? (and this part seems to be ignored by those who have contempt for the law that Yahshua preached throughout is ministry unto death):

(CLV) Ac 15:21
For (because) Moses, from ancient generations, city by city, has those who are heralding him, being read on every sabbath in the synagogues."


Now shortly after Paul left this meeting; he circumcised Timothy himself.

(CLV) 1Co 11:1
Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.

Messiah followed the Torah, not the Talmud.

Genesis 17 (CLV)

9 And saying is the Elohim to Abraham, "And you shall keep My covenant, you and your seed after you for their generations. 10 This is My covenant, which you shall keep between Me and you and your seed after you for their generations: Circumcise to yourselves every male. 11 And circumcised shall you be in the flesh of your foreskin. And it comes to be for a sign of the covenant between Me and you. 12 And a son of eight days shall be circumcised by you, every male of your generations, homeborn or acquired with money from any foreigner, he who is not of your seed. 13 With circumcision shall be circumcised the homeborn and the one acquired with your money. And My covenant comes to be in your flesh for a covenant eonian (FOREVER)

 

[Guojing]

Paul isn't cursing himself in his letter to the Galatians.

Of course he is not cursing himself, he only preached the gospel of the uncircumcision to the uncircumcised (1 Cor 15:1-4).

And strange enough, you did not want to quote Acts 21:20-25 in your next part.

The point I was trying to make, with that passage, is that Jews who believed in Jesus have to continue with the Law of Moses, including circumcising their kids. That is the gospel of the circumcision.

Paul respected that, and did not, as you claimed using Galatians 1:8, curse them for doing so.

Let me repeat again, Galatians 1:8-9 is referring to anyone preaching to the gentiles that keeping the Law of Moses was necessary for salvation. That was the conclusion of the Jerusalem council (Acts 15:19)

 

[HARK!]

The point I was trying to make, with that passage, is that Jews who believed in Jesus have to continue with the Law of Moses, including circumcising their kids. That is the gospel of the circumcision.

Did you just make that up? You can't find the Gospel of Circumcision on the Bible. It's not there.

There is only one Gospel; and there is only one law for all; so it is written.

I'll just stick with scripture.

 

[Guojing]

Did you just make that up? You can't find the Gospel of Circumcision on the Bible. It's not there.

There is only one Gospel; and there is only one law for all; so it is written.

I'll just stick with scripture.

I already quoted Galatians 2:7-9 to you numerous times. Did you even read it before concluding that?

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Yes, stick to scripture, KJV as much as you can. How many gospels do you see in Galatians 2:7 there?

 

[HARK!]

I already quoted Galatians 2:7-9 to you numerous times. Did you even read it before concluding what you have just done?

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Yes, stick to scripture, KJV as much as you can. How many gospels do you see in Galatians 2:7 there?

Again he's talking about taking the good news to those who are in the Torah, and taking that same good news to those who are heathens. There aren't two Gospels.

Here is what Paul said earlier in this same letter:

This sets the stage for the rest of the letter!

Galatians 1:6
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,

Galatians 1:8
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

Galatians 1:9
As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

We've been over this ad nauseam.

Paul is not a schizophrenic; and he's not cursing himself.

 

[Guojing]

Again he's talking about taking the good news to those who are in the Torah, and taking that same good news to those who are heathens. There aren't two Gospels.

Here is what Paul said earlier in this same letter:

This sets the stage for the rest of the letter!

Galatians 1:6
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,

Galatians 1:8
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

Galatians 1:9
As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

We've been over this ad nauseam.

Paul is not a schizophrenic; and he's not cursing himself.

You asked me where in scripture can I find the "gospel of the circumcision", I have given it to you.

Now, are you willing to explore Acts 21:20-25 together? What went down in that passage?

 

[HARK!]

You asked me where in scripture can I find the "gospel of the circumcision", I have given it to you.

Well peter said that Paul's letters are difficult to understand. If Peter himself, one of the closest to Yahshua, was having a difficult time understanding Paul's letters, in that time, in that language, in that culture; you can be sure that Paul's letters are difficult to understand.

You might do well to better understand what Yahshua said, and let that be a guide for you, to understand what Paul is saying.

Here is what Yahshua says on this subject:

Mark 16:15
And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

Notice that gospel isn't plural. He's telling them to go preach the same gospel that he had been preaching throughout his ministry. He didn't mention anything about preaching any new gospel.

Thank YHWH for Yahshua, to bring us to his truth!

 

[Guojing]

Well peter said that Paul's letters are difficult to understand. If Peter himself, one of the closest to Yahshua, was having a difficult time understanding Paul's letters, in that time, in that language, in that culture; you can be sure that Paul's letters are difficult to understand.

You might do well to better understand what Yahshua said, and let that be a guide for you, to understand what Paul is saying.

Here is what Yahshua says on this subject:

Mark 16:15
And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

Notice that gospel isn't plural. He's telling them to go preach the same gospel that he had been preaching throughout his ministry. He didn't mention anything about preaching any new gospel.

Thank YHWH for Yahshua, to bring us to his truth!

Its not difficult to understand, you just need to let the words say what they are saying.

Again, why are you unwilling to look at Acts 21:20-25, when I already promised you that that passage is the solution to all the questions you have about what Paul meant in Galatians 2:7-9?

As for your point about Mark 16, yes, there is one gospel there, which is the gospel of the circumcision, the gospel of the kingdom.

The gospel of the uncircumcision, which is found in 1 Cor 15:1-4, was unknown to the 11 at that time. It was a new revelation given directly to the apostle Paul from the risen Christ, as Paul explained in Galatians 1 clearly

11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[HARK!]

Now, are you willing to explore Acts 21:20-25 together? What went down in that passage?

Actually, instead of jumping all over the Bible on your whim; how about we limit our discussion in relation to the OP. Have you read the OP? It's an interesting topic. I found it interesting enough to start a thread on the subject. I propose that we try something different. I propose that we discuss the topic of the thread.

What say ye?