How can We Know if We Know Him?

[Guojing]

Galatians 1:6-8

New King James Version

Only One Gospel
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 1:6-8 - New King James Version

I already explained to Bob that Paul did not meant what you think he meant, you have been following our exchange over Acts 21:20-25 I assume?

 

[HARK!]

I already explained to Bob that Paul did not meant what you think he meant, you have been following our exchange over Acts 21:20-25 I assume?

Actually I hadn't been following the conversation between you and Bob. My experience with Bob is that he's usually right on; so I generally don't go back to check his work. He's even taught me a few things. Now that I went back and read the exchanges between you two, I see that he refuted your assertions. I think that I could have done a better job; but then again, maybe he's just getting warmed up.

 

[Guojing]

Actually I hadn't been following the conversation between you and Bob. My experience with Bob is that he's usually right on; so I generally don't go back to check his work. He's even taught me a few things. Now that I went back and read the exchanges between you two, I see that he refuted your assertions. I think that I could have done a better job; but then again, maybe he's just getting warmed up.

Well you replied to that post I directed to him, so you have read that reply too

If Paul meant the curse in Galatians 1 to apply like how you are applying, Paul would have pronounced that curse on James and the elders in Acts 21:20-25 for teaching that Jews are still to circumcise their children.

How can We Know if We Know Him?

 

[HARK!]

If Paul meant the curse in Galatians 1 to apply like how you are applying, Paul would have pronounced that curse on James and the elders in Acts 21:20-25 for teaching that Jews are still to circumcise their children.

I started a thread on this subject. Christopher Enoch does a better walk-through of this passage than Bob and I could probably do together.

Enjoy!

Paul Proves He is Not Against Torah

 

[Guojing]

I started a thread on this subject. Christopher Enoch does a better walk-through of this passage than Bob and I could probably do together.

Enjoy!

Paul Proves He is Not Against Torah

Alright then, if you don't wish to address the follow up point.

 

[HARK!]

Alright then, if you don't wish to address the follow up point.

What follow up point?

 

[Guojing]

What follow up point?

If Paul meant the curse in Galatians 1 to apply like how you are applying, Paul would have pronounced that curse on James and the elders in Acts 21:20-25 for teaching that Jews are still to circumcise their children.

 

[HARK!]

If Paul meant the curse in Galatians 1 to apply like how you are applying, Paul would have pronounced that curse on James and the elders in Acts 21:20-25 for teaching that Jews are still to circumcise their children.

Did you watch the video in my OP, with the link that I posted?

 

[Guojing]

Did you watch the video in my OP, with the link that I posted?

Its a simple point for you to address, and it has nothing to do with whether Paul is against the Torah or not.

 

[HARK!]

Its a simple point for you to address, and it has nothing to do with whether Paul is against the Torah or not.

I'll take it then that you did not watch the video which addresses the point that I was addressing. That's OK. Certainly others will benefit from the articulate presentation.

I'm not sure what point it is that you would like me to address. You jumped over to curses in Galatians 1; But Galatians 1 doesn't mention curses.

If you would like me to address your point; I'll ask that you concisely articulate what point it is that you would like me to address. Please provide the scripture so that I don't have to go on another wild goose chase.

 

[Gary K]

\

(CLV) Ro 3:23
for all sinned and are wanting of the glory of God.

Past tense. That person is dead when we know Yahshua.

This is what it looks like when we are reborn:

(CLV) 1Jn 3:9
Everyone who is begotten of God is not doing sin, for His seed is remaining in him, and he can not be sinning, for he is begotten of God.

(CLV) 1Jn 2:4
He who is saying that "I know Him" and is not keeping His precepts, is a liar, and the truth of God is not in this one.

(CLV) 1Jn 2:5
Yet whoever may be keeping His word, truly in this one the love of God is perfected. In this we know that we are in Him:

(CLV) 1Jn 2:6
he who is saying that he is remaining in Him ought also himself to be walking according as He walks.

I agree, but I also have to point out that Peter sinned after he was converted. How did he sin? He became a hypocrite and wouldn't eat with Gentile converts after those who still believed in making a difference between the Jewish convert and a Gentile convert due to the ceremonial laws came around.

Yes, we live in accordance with the law of God due to the new birth, i.e. circumcision of the heart, but we are still sinful human beings as sin is clear down into our DNA. That will not be gone until we receive our immortal bodies at the second coming. For this mortal must put on immortality....

Not having to sin doesn't guarantee that we will never be overcome by temptation.

Two texts from John's writings.

1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

 

[Guojing]

I'll take it then that you did not watch the video which addresses the point that I was addressing. That's OK. Certainly others will benefit from the articulate presentation.

I'm not sure what point it is that you would like me to address. You jumped over to curses in Galatians 1; But Galatians 1 doesn't mention curses.

If you would like me to address your point; I'll ask that you concisely articulate what point it is that you would like me to address. Please provide the scripture so that I don't have to go on another wild goose chase.

How can We Know if We Know Him?

You quoted Gal 1:8 to me after I made the point about gospel of circumcision vs uncircumcision.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

[Gary K]

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

I like to take a literal reading of scripture as far as I can, taking context into account.

So if you were to read this passage literally, what does it say?

I find this argument pretty strange. Who were the circumcision? The Jews. Peter was to present the gospel to the Jews. Who were the uncircumcision? The Gentiles. Paul was to present the gospel to the Gentiles.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Jesus broke down the partition wall between Jew and Gentile. He is peace to both.

Who is a real Jew?

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

1Corinthians 7:18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

 

[HARK!]

How can We Know if We Know Him?

You quoted Gal 1:8 to me after I made the point about gospel of circumcision vs uncircumcision.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Can you refine this a little more, down to a specific point?

A wise man doesn't answer a question; until he understands the question. I'm still not clear on specifically what you are asking.

 

[Guojing]

Can you refine this a little more, down to a specific point?

A wise man doesn't answer a question; until he understands the question. I'm still not clear on specifically what you are asking.

Yes, so back to my first reply to your OP

Paul is preaching the gospel of the uncircumcision to gentiles.

John is preaching the gospel of the circumcision to the Jews.

Different audiences, different instructions.

 

[SANTOSO]

You want to know how we know if we know Him!?

This is what we have heard:
And by this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. -1 John 2:3
Whoever says "I know Him" but does not keep His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, -1 John 2:4
but whoever keeps His word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. BY THIS we may know that we are in Him: -1 John 2:5

For us to know whether we know Him is of importance to know whether we have the love of God is perfected in us !

The follow up question, we need to ask ourselves how this love of God is perfected in us ?

This is what we have heard:
For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering. -Hebrews 2:10

It has been the will of Heavenly Father to make Christ perfect through suffering. Would there be any difference for us who are called to be conformed to the image of His Son ?

How are we going to be conformed to the image of His Son if we are not adopted as sons ?
This is what we have heard:
He ( God the Father ) predestined us for adoption to Himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will, -Ephesians 1:5

Yes, the Heavenly Father’s will for us to receive this adoption through Christ.
In what manner, shall we receive this adoption ?

This is what we have heard:
For ALL who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. -Romans 8:14
For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, "Abba! Father!" -Romans 8:15
The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, -Romans 8:16
and if children, then heirs'heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with Him in order that we may also be glorified with Him. -Romans 8:17

How are we going to be suffering as children of God ?
This is what we have heard:
And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? "My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by Him. -Hebrews 12:5
For the Lord disciplines the one He loves, and chastises every son whom He receives." -Hebrews 12:6

Thus, the love of God is perfected through suffering that we receive as children of God, that is, how the love of God is perfected in us.

By this we know we are in Him, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

 

[Guojing]

Jesus broke down the partition wall between Jew and Gentile. He is peace to both.

This was not known at Acts 15 time period. The events when Paul met with James and the elders in Acts 21 verified that.

Acts is a transitional period between the 2 gospels.

 

[Gary K]

This was not known at Acts 15 time period. The events when Paul met with James and the elders in Acts 21 verified that.

Acts is a transitional period between the 2 gospels.

So you're a MAD?

 

[Guojing]

So you're a MAD?

I read the Bible literally as far as possible, taking context into account.

 

[GooFYone]

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

Sin is transgression of the Torah.

(CLV) 1Jn 3:5
And you are aware that He was manifested that He should be taking away our sins,

Covering them up by sweeping them under the carpet? NO! He takes them away!


and in Him is not sin.

So how can there be no sin in him; if there are sinners in him? John already covered that:

(CLV) 1Jn 2:5
Yet whoever may be keeping His word, truly in this one the love of God is perfected. In this we know that we are in Him:

(CLV) 1Jn 3:6
Everyone who is remaining in Him is not sinning. Everyone who is sinning sees Him not, neither knows Him.

Such a great subject my friend. You are absolutely right.
HE is perfect in every way, sinless. All that is done in sinlessness is of HIM.
All that is done in wickedness, isn’t of HIM.