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Featured How can We Know if We Know Him?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by HARK!, Dec 3, 2020.

  1. By remaining in him, and not sinning.

    8 vote(s)
    57.1%
  2. There is another way.

    6 vote(s)
    42.9%
  1. HARK!

    HARK! Red Moderator of the Year Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    (CLV) 1Jn 3:4
    Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

    Sin is transgression of the Torah.

    (CLV) 1Jn 3:5
    And you are aware that He was manifested that He should be taking away our sins,

    Covering them up by sweeping them under the carpet? NO! He takes them away!


    and in Him is not sin.

    So how can there be no sin in him; if there are sinners in him? John already covered that:

    (CLV) 1Jn 2:5
    Yet whoever may be keeping His word, truly in this one the love of God is perfected. In this we know that we are in Him:


    (CLV) 1Jn 3:6
    Everyone who is remaining in Him is not sinning. Everyone who is sinning sees Him not, neither knows Him.
     
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  2. Tone

    Tone "Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great." Supporter

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    Romans 7:24
    "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"
     
  3. Jeshu

    Jeshu Bought by His Blood Supporter

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    The problem with this is that there so no one saved in your scenario. No lives a perfect life, we all fall short of perfection. Only in part can we ever hope to reach the mark.

    John says also 1 John 1:8-10
    If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

    i believe election is of the heart first of all. God calls unto Himself the elect, those chosen by Christ to rule beside Him. In these selves i cannot sin for i have been born of The Holy Spirit.

    However there are other times when i fail the test. Parts of self that still need to learn the lessons of life. i sin at those times, and i still fall short and need to be saved. So i call upon Jesus, die to my old nature and also find newness of life.

    This is an ongoing process.
    1 Corinthians 15:31 "I face death every day—yes, just as surely as I boast about you in Christ Jesus our Lord."

    The good news is we don't have to be perfect or sinless. No even our flesh serves the Lord in His truth. i know that Christ has called my true me unto Himself and He keeps on doing that while in less than perfect deeds i perish being like that.

    Psalms 44:22 "Yet for your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."
     
  4. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    The scripture below answers your OP question precisely...

    How can We Know if We Know Him?

    1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    God bless
     
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  5. HARK!

    HARK! Red Moderator of the Year Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    (CLV) Lk 1:5
    There came to be, in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zechariah, of the routine of Abiah, and his wife, of the daughters of Aaron, and her name is Elizabeth.

    (CLV) Lk 1:6
    Now they were both just in front of God, going in all the precepts and just statutes of the Lord, blameless.

    (CLV) Jb 1:1
    There was a man in the land of Uz. Job was his name. This man was flawless and upright, fearing Elohim and keeping away from evil.

    (CLV) Php 3:6
    in relation to zeal, persecuting the ecclesia, in relation to the righteousness which is in law, becoming blameless.

    "Have not sinned," is past tense. John is not a schizophrenic. He's telling us that were were sinners before we knew Messiah, who took away our sin. When Yahshua said "go and sin NO MORE; he wasn't being an evil dictator, barking out an order that couldn't be met.

    That's not what Yahshua tells us.

    Matthew 5:48
    Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    (CLV) 1Jn 5:3
    For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,


    (CLV) Dt 30:10
    when you hearken to the voice of Yahweh your Elohim to observe His instructions and His statutes, the ones written in this scroll of the law, once you return to Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul.

    (CLV) Dt 30:11
    For this instruction that I am enjoining on you today, it is neither too difficult for you, nor is it too far off.

    (CLV) Dt 30:12
    It is neither in the heavens for you to say: Who shall ascend to the heavens for us and take it for us and announce it to us that we may do it?

    (CLV) Dt 30:13
    Nor is it across the sea for you to say: Who shall cross across the sea for us and take it for us and announce it to us that we may do it?

    (CLV) Dt 30:14
    For the word is exceedingly near to you, in your mouth and in your heart, to do it.

    (CLV) Dt 30:15
    See! I have set before you today life and good, death and evil.

    (CLV) Dt 30:16
    If you should hearken to the instructions of Yahweh your Elohim that I am enjoining on you today, to love Yahweh your Elohim, to walk in His ways and to observe His instructions, His statutes and His ordinances, then you will live and multiply, and Yahweh your Elohim will bless you in the land where you are entering to tenant it.



     
  6. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

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    "But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is
    • love,
    • joy (gladness),
    • peace,
    • patience (an even temper, forbearance),
    • kindness,
    • goodness (benevolence),
    • faithfulness,
    • gentleness (meekness, humility),
    • self-control (self-restraint, continence)." Galatians 5:22-23 Amplified
    A person who walks with Jesus will see those being developed in their life supernaturally. If you don't see them, ask Jesus to show you or make that so.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
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  7. alllivesmatter

    alllivesmatter EL ROI

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    Romans 3:23
    None of us are free from sin.
     
  8. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    1 Jn 1:
    8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
     
  9. JussiOlavi

    JussiOlavi God's multi - purpose workman Supporter

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    Hi everybody. Many good answers already.

    I used to try live obeying Law and being like Abiah, after I was born anew. Then I got this great realization - I can not live without making sin. I tried to follow speed limit - oops it went over, not to think badly about another person - oops why is that man still alive(such a bad person should be dead), everything that is not fully given to God is stealing from Him - oops.

    So I came back to Jesus. If we try to live without His crucifixion, then we are saying I'm living well enough - I go to Heaven. But when we see, that we still need His blood to "cleanse us from all unrighteousness", we are on our way to Heaven just because of what Jesus did!

    Hope you get the point.
     
  10. NBB

    NBB Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So if sinning is the transgression of the torah, do you believe people are lost for wearing fabrics of different colors, eating pork, etc? and not observing the sabbath?...
     
  11. GDL

    GDL Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, HARK!, for answering this.

    It's a mistake to automatically equate "perfect" to sinless perfection (as can be seen in the Scriptures referenced by HARK!).

    The word typically translated as "perfect" in our Text is something we are commanded to be and become. As it pertains to us, it speaks of things from maturity (vs. infancy in regards to our having learned to judge between both good & bad according to God's Word of Righteousness), to resurrection, to a characteristic of God who we strive to imitate. It's also correlated to Jesus' obedience to God.

    When Paul uses the word "spiritual" is Gal6:1 and applies it to those who are able to identify any sin and assist others out of sin and thereby fulfill the Law of Christ, Paul is speaking of this same concept - "spiritual" is the same as "perfect" here.

    Within our salvation and God working in us both to will and do what pleases Him, we are to strive for perfection, and, yes, while knowing we will err along the way there, and that sin is always to be guarded against.
     
  12. Palmfever

    Palmfever Active Member Supporter

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    We are the children of God, not His contemporaries. Our faith in the work of God make us righteous.

    2 Cor, 5:21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

    Perfection is a goal not a given. Our faith, His work = righteousness.
    Phil, 2:13 … for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

    1 John, 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.
     
  13. GDL

    GDL Well-Known Member

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    We are to grow as much as a Child of God can grow to become imitators of Christ, our first-born brother & Lord, and thus to be like our Father as much as He says it is possible to be. Nothing about this suggests contemporaries.

    Yes, perfection is a goal. Actually perfection in at least 2 concepts per Phil3 and Matt5:48.

    Like many, you left off Phil2:12 where we are commanded to work to accomplish our Salvation. So our working with God is also part of righteousness, as is our actually doing righteousness (Rom6; 1John3:7).

    This is comparable to one of the concepts of perfection.
     
  14. Palmfever

    Palmfever Active Member Supporter

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    I'm not a "once saved always saved" thinker. And, I know faith without works are dead. The reply was not to exclude our response to God saving grace, simply to affirm that there was only ever one perfect man. Our work is to believe, bear fruit, crucify the flesh, submit to the Lordship of Christ in the Spirit of God.
    James, 2:19 “You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.” Faith without submission is simply lip service.
     
  15. GDL

    GDL Well-Known Member

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    OK, thanks.

    This is where you're missing the point. You're infusing "perfect" with your definition (like "sinless perfection"), but several English translations use "perfect" to speak of Noah in his generations (Gen6:9), and of Christians that have reached a maturity in learning and skill in God's Word of Righteousness (Heb5:13-14 where the translation "mature" in several versions is the same word translated "perfect" elsewhere) - Paul speaks of this also in Phil3:15 (same word & some translate as "mature" and some as "perfect").

    By restricting "perfect" to sinless perfection, you're actually restricting a God-given goal for us in working with Him. I work to let God define words for me.
     
  16. HARK!

    HARK! Red Moderator of the Year Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    Buddhists walk this way; but they don't walk as Yahshua walked, i.e. in obedience to our Father's word, the Torah.
     
  17. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

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    So Apostle Paul (a Redeemed Pharisee) was plagiarizing Buddha...? :confused:
     
  18. HARK!

    HARK! Red Moderator of the Year Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    \

    (CLV) Ro 3:23
    for all sinned and are wanting of the glory of God.

    Past tense.
    That person is dead when we know Yahshua.

    This is what it looks like when we are reborn:

    (CLV) 1Jn 3:9
    Everyone who is begotten of God is not doing sin, for His seed is remaining in him, and he can not be sinning, for he is begotten of God.

    (CLV) 1Jn 2:4
    He who is saying that "I know Him" and is not keeping His precepts, is a liar, and the truth of God is not in this one.

    (CLV) 1Jn 2:5
    Yet whoever may be keeping His word, truly in this one the love of God is perfected. In this we know that we are in Him:

    (CLV) 1Jn 2:6
    he who is saying that he is remaining in Him ought also himself to be walking according as He walks.
     
  19. HARK!

    HARK! Red Moderator of the Year Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    Are you joking? Not funny.
     
  20. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

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    Your previous post seemed to discount Galatians 5:22-23 [Paul's writing] because Buddhists exhibit a counterfeit form.
     
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