How can we do greater works than Jesus? (John 14:12)

zoidar

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John 14:12 - Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

We discussed this a bit in another thread, but I was not satisfied with the answers given. So, how can we do greater works than Jesus? And what kind of works might that be? What did Jesus mean? God bless!

"because I go to the Father", I figure has to do with God sending the Holy Spirit.
 

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John 14:12 - Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

We discussed this a bit in another thread, but I was not satisfied with the answers given. So, how can we do greater works than Jesus? And what kind of works might that be? What did Jesus mean? God bless!

"because I go to the Father", I figure has to do with God sending the Holy Spirit.

Personally Jesus converted very few people, His disciples already many more, especially Paul, the least of them, he became the greatest of them all.

Others followed. There are people who brought tens of thousands, if not millions of people to faith, that are the greater works than Jesus did, because we would have His Spirit in full dwelling inside of us.

i also think that we often think to little of The Holy Spirit we have been given and that often times we grief him sorely with our unwillingness to follow His voice within over against our own judgements.

Peace.
 
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disciple Clint

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John 14:12 - Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

We discussed this a bit in another thread, but I was not satisfied with the answers given. So, how can we do greater works than Jesus? And what kind of works might that be? What did Jesus mean? God bless!

"because I go to the Father", I figure has to do with God sending the Holy Spirit.
Hope this helps. from John 14:12 - Meaning and Commentary on Bible Verse
Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me,
&c.] Having mentioned his miracles as proofs of his deity, he assures his disciples, in order to comfort them under the loss of his bodily presence, that they should do the same, and greater works; for we are not to understand these words of everyone that believes in Christ, of every private believer in him, but only of the apostles, and each of them, that were true believers in him: to whom he says,

the works that I do shall he do also;
he shall raise the dead, heal all manner of diseases, and cast out devils; things which Christ gave his apostles power to do, when he first gave them a commission to preach the Gospel, and when he renewed and enlarged it: and which they did perform, not in their own name, and by their own power, but in the name, and by the power of Christ:

and greater works than these shall he do;
meaning, not greater in nature and kind, but more in number; for the apostles, in a long series of time, and course of years, went about preaching the Gospel, not in Judea only, but in all the world; "God also bearing them witness with signs and wonders, and divers miracles and gifts of the Holy Ghost", ( Hebrews 2:4 ) , wherever they went: though perhaps by these greater works may be meant the many instances of conversion, which the apostles were instrumental in, and which were more in number than those which were under our Lord's personal ministry: besides, the conversion of a sinner is a greater work than any of the miracles of raising the dead for this includes in it all miracles: here we may see a sinner, dead in trespasses and sins, quickened; one born blind made to see; one who was deaf to the threatenings of the law, and to the charming voice of the Gospel, made to hear, so as to live; and one that had the spreading leprosy of sin all over him, cleansed from it by the blood of the Lamb yea, though a miracle in nature is an instance and proof of divine power, yet the conversion of a sinner, which is a miracle in grace, is not only an instance of the power of God, and of the greatness of it, but of the exceeding greatness of it: and the rather one may be induced to give in to this sense of the passage, since it is added, as a reason,

because I go to my Father;
and upon my ascension the Spirit will be given, to you, which shall not only enable you to perform miracles, as proofs of your apostleship, and the doctrine you preach, but which shall powerfully attend the Gospel to the conversion of multitudes of souls.
 
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zoidar

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Hope this helps. from John 14:12 - Meaning and Commentary on Bible Verse
Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me,
&c.] Having mentioned his miracles as proofs of his deity, he assures his disciples, in order to comfort them under the loss of his bodily presence, that they should do the same, and greater works; for we are not to understand these words of everyone that believes in Christ, of every private believer in him, but only of the apostles, and each of them, that were true believers in him: to whom he says,

the works that I do shall he do also;
he shall raise the dead, heal all manner of diseases, and cast out devils; things which Christ gave his apostles power to do, when he first gave them a commission to preach the Gospel, and when he renewed and enlarged it: and which they did perform, not in their own name, and by their own power, but in the name, and by the power of Christ:

and greater works than these shall he do;
meaning, not greater in nature and kind, but more in number; for the apostles, in a long series of time, and course of years, went about preaching the Gospel, not in Judea only, but in all the world; "God also bearing them witness with signs and wonders, and divers miracles and gifts of the Holy Ghost", ( Hebrews 2:4 ) , wherever they went: though perhaps by these greater works may be meant the many instances of conversion, which the apostles were instrumental in, and which were more in number than those which were under our Lord's personal ministry: besides, the conversion of a sinner is a greater work than any of the miracles of raising the dead for this includes in it all miracles: here we may see a sinner, dead in trespasses and sins, quickened; one born blind made to see; one who was deaf to the threatenings of the law, and to the charming voice of the Gospel, made to hear, so as to live; and one that had the spreading leprosy of sin all over him, cleansed from it by the blood of the Lamb yea, though a miracle in nature is an instance and proof of divine power, yet the conversion of a sinner, which is a miracle in grace, is not only an instance of the power of God, and of the greatness of it, but of the exceeding greatness of it: and the rather one may be induced to give in to this sense of the passage, since it is added, as a reason,

because I go to my Father;
and upon my ascension the Spirit will be given, to you, which shall not only enable you to perform miracles, as proofs of your apostleship, and the doctrine you preach, but which shall powerfully attend the Gospel to the conversion of multitudes of souls.

Reasonable explanation, though what reason is there to believe it was only for the apostles? I don't think John Gill gives a good answer to that.
 
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disciple Clint

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Reasonable explanation, though what reason is there to believe it was only for the apostles? I don't think John Gill gives a good answer to that.
I think it is for ALL apostles of all times.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Reasonable explanation, though what reason is there to believe it was only for the apostles? I don't think John Gill gives a good answer to that.

I know of one missionary in Colombia who was credited with 1M converts.
Established hospitals and schools where the police would not go.

So yes - for me the greatest miracle is salvation and the explosion of the early church says it all.

The Spirit first had to come and empower the Body of Christ to achieve this.
 
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Guojing

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John 14:12 - Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

We discussed this a bit in another thread, but I was not satisfied with the answers given. So, how can we do greater works than Jesus? And what kind of works might that be? What did Jesus mean? God bless!

"because I go to the Father", I figure has to do with God sending the Holy Spirit.

In the gospel of John, the works Jesus did are equivalent to signs and wonders (John 10:37-38).

Signs and wonders are for the nation Israel, so Paul handkerchiefs and Peter's shadow could heal, greater works might refer to those.
 
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zoidar

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I know of one missionary in Colombia who was credited with 1M converts.
Established hospitals and schools where the police would not go.

So yes - for me the greatest miracle is salvation and the explosion of the early church says it all.

The Spirit first had to come and empower the Body of Christ to achieve this.

I like your understanding. But if we read the passage, Jesus seems to refer to his miracles and wonders, which are proving he is God (so Philip would believe), not directly the conversion of people.

John 14:8-14
Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father. Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.
 
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zoidar

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In the gospel of John, the works Jesus did are equivalent to signs and wonders (John 10:37-38).

Signs and wonders are for the nation Israel, so Paul handkerchiefs and Peter's shadow could heal, greater works might refer to those.

What do you mean "for the nation Israel"?
 
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Carl Emerson

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Well it could be meaning that the Spirit was in Jesus - one individual.

But when He goes to the Father and the Spirit is released to indwell multitudes of believers all carrying the testimony of truth and the signs following - these are the greater things.

Let's face it - Jesus has 12 serious followers.

After Pentecost - thousands in one day...
 
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Guojing

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What do you mean "for the nation Israel"?

Signs and wonders always linked to Israel, as stated many times in both OT and NT.

Deuteronomy 26:8 And the Lord brought us forth out of Egypt with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with great terribleness, and with signs, and with wonders.

Psalms 74:9 We see not our signs: there is no more any prophet: neither is there among us any that knoweth how long.

Judges 6:13 "But sir," Gideon replied, "if the LORD is with us, why has all this happened to us? Where are all his wonders that our fathers told us about when they said, `Did not the LORD bring us up out of Egypt?' But now the LORD has abandoned us and put us into the hand of Midian."

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Exodus 4

1 Corinthians 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
 
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zoidar

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Well it could be meaning that the Spirit was in Jesus - one individual.

But when He goes to the Father and the Spirit is released to indwell multitudes of believers all carrying the testimony of truth and the signs following - these are the greater things.

Let's face it - Jesus has 12 serious followers.

After Pentecost - thousands in one day...

Yeah, there was really an explosion there after Pentecost.
 
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BrotherJJ

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My thoughts on Jn 14:12

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
(NOTE: Faith comes by hearing.)

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
(NOTE: Paul calls Timothy HIS SON in the faith.)

Ja 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
(NOTE: He that converts/leads the sinner to God thru Christ. Save's a soul from death & hide a multitude of sins)

1 Cor 9:
19 Paul said, For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
(NOTE: I for the gospel’s sake. That I might by all means, Gain more = save/lead/win souls to Christ)

20 Paul said, And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
(NOTE: I for the gospel’s sake. That I might by all means, Gain/save/lead/win some Jewish souls to Christ)

Acts 16:
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
(NOTE: The jailer asked men. What must I do to be saved?)

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
(NOTE: Men, not God, taught/told the jailer. How to find God and how, through faith to save his soul)

Pro 11:30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.
(NOTE: He that wins souls is wise)

Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
(NOTE: "They" that preach/teach/lead many to righteousness. Will receive an everlasting position)

Matt 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
(NOTE: This scripture places more value on one soul then ALL the riches this world has to offer)

Jn 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
(NOTE: I believe the greatest work anyone can do. Is lead a lost soul to God thru Christ.)
 
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How can we do greater works than Jesus?
....So, how can we do greater works than Jesus? And what kind of works might that be? What did Jesus mean? God bless!...

The answer to how, I think is by believing that Jesus will do what is asked:

… he who believes in me… …Whatever you will ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you will ask anything in my name, I will do it.
John 14:10-14

I think everything is possible with Jesus and God. And greater things can mean doing more what Jesus did. I also think it can mean doing greater things in meaning that it is something like cast mountain into sea. All though I am not sure would that really be greater than saving people from death like Jesus.

For most assuredly I tell you, whoever may tell this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' and doesn't doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is happening; he shall have whatever he says. Therefore I tell you, all things whatever you pray and ask for, believe that you receive them, and you shall have them.
Mark 11:23-24
 
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lanceleo

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The works here does not mean greater in essence but larger in volume because in v12 he was going to the Father soon. Greater works could not consist of doing greater things than Christ could have done had he had the occasion to do them.

Another proof that our works are not greater in essence is that there are some things we cannot do like forgiving sins like Jesus can for that would make us God.
 
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Carl Emerson

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The works here does not mean greater in essence but larger in volume because in v12 he was going to the Father soon. Greater works could not consist of doing greater things than Christ could have done had he had the occasion to do them.

Another proof that our works are not greater in essence is that there are some things we cannot do like forgiving sins like Jesus can for that would make us God.

John 20:23
If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”
 
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RandyPNW

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The works here does not mean greater in essence but larger in volume because in v12 he was going to the Father soon. Greater works could not consist of doing greater things than Christ could have done had he had the occasion to do them.

Another proof that our works are not greater in essence is that there are some things we cannot do like forgiving sins like Jesus can for that would make us God.
Great point, and I've been trying to make it myself! I think Jesus was just informing his Disciples that his ministry would come to a quick end, requiring that his Disciples carry on and do a lot more earthly work.

The Disciples had unique gifts. I wouldn't say they were exclusively their gifts, but in some respects they were unique because they alone were the Apostles upon which the foundation of the Church would be built.

Jesus needed to walk with them and talk with them personally for 3 years to ensure they got what they needed to have stored up inside them. Then they could communicate that faithfully to others, because we know how inept we would all be without God's help!

Jesus had a special ministry himself, which meant that his Disciples would have to carry that specific message, as well. And so, miracles abounded with the Apostles, which is not the case through much of history. For example, how many worked miracles in OT history apart from the few like Moses, Elijah, and Elisha? I suppose you could add to this a lot of supernatural help in battle when the Davidic kings relied on God's word and aid.

And so, the Apostles did some unique miracles, though the gifts of the Spirit remain with the Church throughout history, as needed. Our "greater works" are, as you seem to be saying, simply the extent to which we would bring this supernatural message, with signs and wonders, to the world.

Qualitatively, our miracles would come from the same source as they came from Jesus--the Holy Spirit. So the only difference in quality is in the "messenger." Jesus was perfect, and we are not.

Nor would our miracles produce greater results than Jesus. Jesus did things that were obviously superior to those who did miracles before them.

It is interesting to compare Jesus' miracles with those done by the Prophets before him. Obviously, Jesus acted as the Son of God, whereas the Prophets acted strictly as obedient servants of God. The Prophets said, "Thus says the Lord." Jesus said, "Truly I say."
 
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Thijs Hottenhuis

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Well, this is an interesting thread. You say, "Jesus was perfect, and we are not," but this contradict His own commandments, "Be ye therefore perfect, as your Father Who is in Heaven is perfect". So yes, purification is needed in most cases, in my case for sure, but Jesus still wants us to be perfect like Him, right?
 
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Guojing

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Well, this is an interesting thread. You say, "Jesus was perfect, and we are not," but this contradict His own commandments, "Be ye therefore perfect, as your Father Who is in Heaven is perfect". So yes, purification is needed in most cases, in my case for sure, but Jesus still wants us to be perfect like Him, right?

Usually, we will try to reason to ourselves that Jesus didn't really meant what he was saying literally, and thus was implying something else.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Usually, we will try to reason to ourselves that Jesus didn't really meant what he was saying literally, and thus was implying something else.

Redemption can take a long time and while perfection is a goal, even Paul indicated he had not reached it.

If we stress it too much, the young in the faith can feel defeated, better to be mindful of depravity and project a humble offering which will be accepted by His grace and not stumble a brother or sister.
 
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