How can they morally aim when death penalty is involved?

[Doug Melven]

If the ram was willing, why did it choose to get its horns stuck. There were some other means, more obvious, to willingly surrender, weren't there?

If Jesus was willing, why did they have to come get Him?

 

[peter2]

The whole scenario of Abraham sacrificing his son and being replaced by the ram is a picture of what Christ willingly did for us.

If Jesus was willing

I don't understand why you first believed without restrictions, and then started conditionning Jesus willingness. I assume you didn't mean "if", but "as".
So, as Jesus willingly gave His life, and as He replied, 55 In that hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a robber with swords and staves to seize me? I sat daily in the temple teaching, and ye took me not ,in Matthew 26, He was not hiding from them, but

why did they have to come get Him?

it was no longer His hour, but theirs. Besides, it was they that needed a traitor to carry the can, i suppose, for they were fearing the crowds, that might have revolt against them, i still suppose, in retaliation for the crucifixion.

 

[Doug Melven]

I don't understand why you first believed without restrictions, and then started conditionning Jesus willingness. I assume you didn't mean "if", but "as".
So, as Jesus willingly gave His life, and as He replied, 55 In that hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a robber with swords and staves to seize me? I sat daily in the temple teaching, and ye took me not ,in Matthew 26, He was not hiding from them, but
it was no longer His hour, but theirs. Besides, it was they that needed a traitor to carry the can, i suppose, for they were fearing the crowds, that might have revolt against them, i still suppose, in retaliation for the crucifixion.

I was making a comparison.
You said the ram was unwilling, which is why it had to be caught in a thicket.
The ram didn't just climb up on the altar, so even though Jesus was willing, He didn't just climb up on the cross, they had to come get Him.
What I am saying is even though they had to come get Jesus, that did not mean He was unwilling.
So the ram being caught in a thicket did not mean the ram was unwilling.

 

[peter2]

Not really. I would feel even more uncomfortable with the notion of capital punishment if its a theocracy doling it out given that it would not be limited to those guilty of murder.

Let's assume you think of those guilty of atheism..
Sorry for having forgotten your post.
As atheist, may be do you not believe in life after death. I do, and what i'll have done or not in this world matters for me, for I believe it'll follow me in afterlife. Hence this thread, in order to find How to think and behave. At least, my ambition is to speak truly of Christ, with thé more possible exactitude.
Hence my post against ruler ruling nonchristianly, in the name of Christ.

 

[Desk trauma]

Let's assume you think of those guilty of atheism..

We would be in a great deal of trouble in your desired theocracy.

As atheist, may be do you not believe in life after death.

No. I don’t see any way for consciousness to persist after brain death.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

"The mind of Christ" is no "ordinary life". Not at all.
Rather, we (Ekklesia) are foreigners here, surrounded as always by the ungodly in the world controlled by the god of this world. Various dangerous world - most do not make it.

"Hence this thread" ..... as with other threads, the threads cannot bring anyone to Christ, nor improve their life with Him, generally, because most all of the world's information leads away from Christ, and remember as written in Scripture, for anyone seeking Yahweh, traps are laid every day even in the house of Yahweh.

Hence this thread, in order to find How to think and behave. At least, my ambition is to speak truly of Christ, with thé more possible exactitude.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Remember, or perhaps search and find, Watchman Nee's prayer (during WWII) when with the PM of Britain and the President of the USA and other military leaders (highest ranking) and members ,
(from memory, from his life testimony and his prayer while with the leaders of the nations here) "Thank you God for your sovereignty and mighty hand, especially for salvation in Jesus and atonement by His Blood. We ask You to accomplish your purpose in this time of war....."

Notably not "let us win" nor "let them win" , rather "Thy Will be done, on earth (TODAY) as it is in heaven"
Thy Will. Thine Accomplishment of Thy Purpose, always, in all things.

It's written, i have to admit it. Could you help my understanding of where stand the duty and what must be the good works of citizens when a coup is performed by an order against another one?

 

[peter2]

What I am saying is even though they had to come get Jesus, that did not mean He was unwilling.

I do agree

So the ram being caught in a thicket did not mean the ram was unwilling.

May be, or not.
What message i'm just striving to display is that thé ram couldn't make à messianic gift comparable with Christ's.
Let's assume the ram was willing, its will and gift are far below these of Christ, that alone, have this messianic range.

 

[peter2]

We would be in a great deal of trouble in your desired theocracy.
I was joking. I'm not longing for such à theocracy




No. I don’t see any way for consciousness to persist after brain death.

It's the reason why I told you about my beliefs and fear of éternity. What kind of eternity, indeed?

 

[Desk trauma]

It's the reason why I told you about my beliefs and fear of éternity. What kind of eternity, indeed?

One none of us will witness.

 

[peter2]

We ask You to accomplish your purpose in this time of war....."

Notably not "let us win" nor "let them win" , rather "Thy Will be done, on earth (TODAY) as it is in heaven"

Pious and humble prayers, but how do they have certainty they had acted accordingly?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Clarify: how does 'who' have certainty that they (who?) acted 'accordingly' (according to what ? )

Pious and humble prayers, but how do they have certainty they had acted accordingly?

p.s. not pious, that is not as 'pious' seems to be usually used.

 

[peter2]

Clarify: how does 'who' have certainty that they (who?) acted 'accordingly' (according to what ?

How does they(these on whose behalf he was praying to do God's will only+ all readers of this prayer) have certainty that they(all those that felt in the need of doing that prayer for themselves) acted according to God's will?

not pious, that is not as 'pious' seems to be usually used.

In french, the translation of pious is the word "pieux", also used to mean "intended with benevolence, with the intention of achieving good works", the more often when associated with the word "vow".
The more often too, its use is done with a humoristic goal, but my own purpose was to underline the vow of the prayer didn't necessarily mean carte blanche given them by God to wage war.

 

[peter2]

The ram didn't just climb up on the altar, so even though Jesus was willing, He didn't just climb up on the cross, they had to come get Him.

What's more, it seems to me Jesus couldn't run the risk of displaying any appearence of suicidal behavior, -behavior which He did not have-, otherwise, He would probably have climb up on the cross, in order to save mankind faster.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If I understand this question right,
"they", for whom Watchman Nee prayed, and those he prayed in the presence of,
might not have had any certainty of anything,
and it is non-important (of no concern)
as far as Yahweh's hearing the prayer and answering the prayer.

Just like Jesus' Prayer "Father , forgive them (who crucify Me now), for they know not what they do"
did not rely on anyone having any certainty of anything;
only Jesus was certain His Father heard Him , and even Jesus' Prayer was from the Father to Jesus, to the Father , as were all His works and words and actions.

How does they(these on whose behalf he was praying to do God's will only+ all readers of this prayer) have certainty that they(all those that felt in the need of doing that prayer for themselves)

 

[Desk trauma]

What's more, it seems to me Jesus couldn't run the risk of displaying any appearence of suicidal behavior, -behavior which He did not have-, otherwise, He would probably have climb up on the cross, in order to save mankind faster.

I’m sure the Romans had no issue obliging those looking for suicide by legionnaire.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Jesus did not even think of the risk of anyone thinking anything - it was unimportant to Him.

The only thing important was/is to do the Father's Will.
(which He always did perfectly)

He never tried to speed up 'saving' mankind - and mankind is not saved. He did not save mankind.

What's more, it seems to me Jesus couldn't run the risk of displaying any appearence of suicidal behavior, -behavior which He did not have-, otherwise, He would probably have climb up on the cross, in order to save mankind faster.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This use and uses of the word(s) does not seem to be something Yahweh is concerned with, nor Jesus, nor Watchman Nee, nor any Ekklesia.

In french, the translation of pious is the word "pieux", also used to mean "intended with benevolence, with the intention of achieving good works", the more often when associated with the word "vow".
The more often too, its use is done with a humoristic goal, but my own purpose was to underline the vow of the prayer didn't necessarily mean carte blanche given them by God to wage war.

 

[peter2]

Remember, or perhaps search and find, Watchman Nee's prayer (during WWII) when with the PM of Britain and the President of the USA and other military leaders (highest ranking) and members ,
(from memory, from his life testimony and his prayer while with the leaders of the nations here) "Thank you God for your sovereignty and mighty hand, especially for salvation in Jesus and atonement by His Blood. We ask You to accomplish your purpose in this time of war....."

He never tried to speed up 'saving' mankind - and mankind is not saved. He did not save mankind.

Don't you find it a bit contradictory? don't you believe the good malefactor is saved?

Jesus did not even think of the risk of anyone thinking anything - it was unimportant to Him.

Yet He warned in several way His disciples against their going astray by their possible listening to pharisees leaven, wolves, blinds, etc..Do you think He said all this with indifference of souls fates?

This use and uses of the word(s) does not seem to be something Yahweh is concerned with, nor Jesus, nor Watchman Nee, nor any Ekklesia.

May be they aren't, you did seem

 

[peter2]

I’m sure the Romans had no issue obliging those looking for suicide by legionnaire.

You seem to forget christians believe Jesus didn't come only for romans. Hence the Gospels. May be are you joking, in your turn.