How can they morally aim when death penalty is involved?

[peter2]

I confess being confused as to making up my mind in the field of moral killing, as I really couldn't cope with aiming precisely at evil. Is it within reach to destroy it, through killing, as Jesus, our shepherd and as God's lamb, aimed far more precisely at its root, hit the bull's eye, namely sin?
Doesn't sin thrive on moral human death penalty?

 

[Doug Melven]

I confess being confused as to making up my mind in the field of moral killing, as I really couldn't cope with aiming precisely at evil. Is it within reach to destroy it, through killing, as Jesus, our shepherd and as God's lamb, aimed far more precisely at its root, hit the bull's eye, namely sin?
Doesn't sin thrive on moral human death penalty?

God instituted the death penalty for breaking the Sabbath, adultery and idolatry.
Then He had His own Son suffer the death penalty for sin, not His own but ours.

 

[Chinchilla]

I confess being confused as to making up my mind in the field of moral killing, as I really couldn't cope with aiming precisely at evil. Is it within reach to destroy it, through killing, as Jesus, our shepherd and as God's lamb, aimed far more precisely at its root, hit the bull's eye, namely sin?
Doesn't sin thrive on moral human death penalty?

killing somebody =/= murdering somebody .
God for example killed his people because they made golden calf , the ones which were dancing around it paid the price .

 

[peter2]

God instituted the death penalty for breaking the Sabbath, adultery and idolatry.

Thank you , Doug Melven.

God for example killed his people because they made golden calf , the ones which were dancing around it paid the price

Thank you, Chinchilla.

Both of you related my questionning to God's will as regards death penalty. Now, i am only considering this penalty when performed by men, not by our perfect God, for if men may do wrong justice, God won't.
So,

Then He had His own Son suffer the death penalty for sin, not His own but ours.

,
as He does righteous justice, through the accurate death penalty of His son, bearing the whole sin of mankind, Jesus himself had become the target's center God couldn't fail to reach, in order to annihilate sin and death.
How precise, indeed, and how could men imitate such précision in thé implementation of thé déath of any sinner, as distinct from this of thé sinless Jesus?
Please consider the effect the crucifixion of an innocent had in the heart of his just neighbor on his cross. Did God miss this heart? Or did He reach this goal?
Which goal and justice do our human death sentences reach and achieve?

 

[Chinchilla]

Thank you , Doug Melven.


Thank you, Chinchilla.

Both of you related my questionning to God's will as regards death penalty. Now, i am only considering this penalty when performed by men, not by our perfect God, for if men may do wrong justice, God won't.
So,
,
as He does righteous justice, through the accurate death penalty of His son, bearing the whole sin of mankind, Jesus himself had become the target's center God couldn't fail to reach, in order to annihilate sin and death.
How precise, indeed, and how could men imitate such précision in thé implementation of thé déath of any sinner, as distinct from this of thé sinless Jesus?
Please consider the effect the crucifixion of an innocent had in the heart of his just neighbor on his cross. Did God miss this heart? Or did He reach this goal?
Which goal and justice do our human death sentences reach and achieve?

Jesus was not innocent when he was at cross , God put sin on him and then unloaded his wrath on him so he didn't have on you .

2 Corinthians 5:21 King James Version (KJV)
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


Jesus become like a serpent on pole
Numbers 21:9 > John 3:14

 

[Doug Melven]

Both of you related my questionning to God's will as regards death penalty. Now, i am only considering this penalty when performed by men, not by our perfect God, for if men may do wrong justice, God won't.

God told them when someone broke one of those laws that the people were to stone them.
This was capital punishment, I also forgot to mention murder, the penalty was death.

God told them people were only to be executed on the testimony of 2 or 3 witness. One witness was insufficient for the death penalty.
This sounds like a trial and investigation.

 

[peter2]

God put sin on him and then unloaded his wrath on him so he didn't have on you .

I understand and agree, yet

Jesus was not innocent when he was at cross

21 Him who knew no sin he made [to be] sin on our behalf; that we might become the righteousness of God in him.KJV
All right, Chinchilla, He was made (to be) sin. But does it mean He did sin? Isn't there a nuance between the being made and the committing? Where do you see Him stopping from being innocent?

 

[peter2]

God told them when someone broke one of those laws that the people were to stone them.
This was capital punishment, I also forgot to mention murder, the penalty was death.

God told them people were only to be executed on the testimony of 2 or 3 witness. One witness was insufficient for the death penalty.
This sounds like a trial and investigation.

Yes, Doug Melven, it does sound.
17 Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthew5
Why did Jesus come , but to show how law and prophets should be implemented?

 

[Doug Melven]

Yes, Doug Melven, it does sound.
17 Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthew5
Why did Jesus come , but to show how law and prophets should be implemented?

Not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me.

 

[peter2]

Not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me.

Not sure myself..truthseeking..
May be is it like in mathematics: There are definitions,which i relate to law and prophets; then, examples, to be related to christian lives, ans especially this of Jesus, that wholly broke sin in his flesh. Besides, both aim at circumscribing sin outside. But only Jesus and the Father forgiveness can relieve sinners from guilt, whereas I'm not sure of the depth of the relief or redemption brought about by any death penalty of malefactors. The reproaches of the bad malefactor on the cross didn't bring about any soothing word in Jesus mouth, whereas the conversion of the good one did. Is our justice through death penalty sufficiently efficient to avoid the silence of our Savior to those who don't convert? Does it elevate mankind?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I confess being confused as to making up my mind in the field of moral killing, as I really couldn't cope with aiming precisely at evil. Is it within reach to destroy it, through killing, as Jesus, our shepherd and as God's lamb, aimed far more precisely at its root, hit the bull's eye, namely sin?
Doesn't sin thrive on moral human death penalty?

Is the church putting people to death in France?

 

[peter2]

Is the church putting people to death in France?

It was practised centuries ago by church, no longer since.
As for the state, death penalty was abolished in the early 1980s

 

[Chinchilla]

I understand and agree, yet

21 Him who knew no sin he made [to be] sin on our behalf; that we might become the righteousness of God in him.KJV
All right, Chinchilla, He was made (to be) sin. But does it mean He did sin? Isn't there a nuance between the being made and the committing? Where do you see Him stopping from being innocent?

Because innocent can't pay for guilty because it would be not just . Guilty has to be punished .

 

[peter2]

Because innocent can't pay for guilty because it would be not just . Guilty has to be punished .

I saw many movies yet with people paying for others, and if such human heroism existed, at war, for instance, as it sometimes occurs too, for prison sentences, in peaceful time, or for other kinds of punishment, why do you believe God and Jesus unable to accept the replacement of the payer?
Wasn't a ram sacrificed instead of Isaac? Unfortunate ram, that providence had left the horns caught in bushes, and that Abraham killed, intead of his son. Do you think this ram was guilty of something? What's more, as distinct from Jesus, it didn't willingly die, that is, to please to God.

 

[Chinchilla]

I saw many movies yet with people paying for others, and if such human heroism existed, at war, for instance, as it sometimes occurs too, for prison sentences, in peaceful time, or for other kinds of punishment, why do you believe God and Jesus unable to accept the replacement of the payer?
Wasn't a ram sacrificed instead of Isaac? Unfortunate ram, that providence had left the horns caught in bushes, and that Abraham killed, intead of his son. Do you think this ram was guilty of something? What's more, as distinct from Jesus, it didn't willingly die, that is, to please to God.

Hebrews 10:6-8 King James Version (KJV)
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

 

[peter2]

You mean?

 

[Desk trauma]

Because innocent can't pay for guilty because it would be not just . Guilty has to be punished .

So much for Christianity.

Fold the tent guys, the religions over, moving on.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It was practised centuries ago by church, no longer since.
As for the state, death penalty was abolished in the early 1980s

I guess I don't understand the purpose of this thread. ???

 

[peter2]

I guess I don't understand the purpose of this thread. ???

Sorry for deviating a little from my initial goal.
As my first post asked for, i was only looking for help so as to find how morally behave, think and above all christianly aim, as far as self or neighbor's defence, death penalty require intervention or positionning. Do you have a clue?

 

[narrowgateevangelist]

An inescapable reality is that some people murder other people. Exacting justice against murderers is the reason governments exists. When a government refuses to take action against murderers, problems like we witness today follow.

Even when murderers are incarcerated. The general observation is that they'll murder other inmates. Unless other inmates bow to their murderous caprice. So prison gangs have expanded greatly all over the industrialized world.

In the book of Romans. Paul specifically warns against church members. Disrupting local civil authorities from performing government functions.

Here is the excerpt.

Romans 13: 3. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4. For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.