• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured How can satan be already bound without contradicting Revelation 12?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by DavidPT, Jul 8, 2019.

  1. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,272
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Yes, by the Gospel and Holy Spirit.

    However, the Devil also ruled thru the 1st century Jewish Rulers, and they were indeed made a footstool of Jesus in 70ad and shown in Revelation....

    The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

    "I consider the Prophecy relative to the destruction of the Jewish nation,
    if there were nothing else to support Christianity, as absolutely irresistible."
    (Mr. Erskine's Speech, at the Trial of Williams, for publishing Paine's Age of Reason)

    History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. --
    Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ;.......................
    ===============================
    Matthew 3:7
    But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them,
    Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the being about wrath<ὀργῆς<3709>?

    Luke 3:7
    Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him,
    Brood of vipers! Who warned ye to flee from the being about wrath<ὀργῆς<3709>?
    ==============================
    Anyone notice any Chief Priests, Sadducees, Pharisees around lately?

    John 8:44
    "Ye out of a father, the devil are, and the desires of the father of ye, ye are willing to be doing...........................".

    The ruler of this world coming, judged, cast out


    John 16:11 "of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged
    John 12:31 "Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
    John 14:30
    "I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me. [Matthew 26:47]
    ==========================
    John 13:2 The evening meal was underway, and the Devil had already put into the heart of Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, to betray Jesus

    Notice this even happened after Jesus spoke the Olivet and Garden Discourse...........And look who comes for Jesus:

    Matt 26:
    14 Then one of the twelve, called Judas Iscariot, went to the chief priests
    47 And while he is yet speaking, behold!
    Judas, one of the twelve doth come and with him a great multitude, with swords and sticks, from the chief priests and elders of the people. [Luke 22:47 Mark 14:43]
    =============================
    Google search "binding of satan revelation"

    https://www.google.com/search?clien...10j0i22i30j0i22i10i30j33i22i29i30.H2MK-gJw_Uk

    The Binding of Satan by Douglas Kelly

    Revelation 20 is the only place in the Bible that speaks of “the millennium”—the thousand-year reign of the triumphant Christ on earth. Nowhere else does Holy Scripture mention this word, so it is necessary to look at related teachings elsewhere in Scripture to understand what it means in Revelation. A sound principle of biblical interpretation (used from ancient times by Augustine, Tychonius, and other early Christian writers) is that one interprets the few mentions of a word or concept in light of the many, and the symbolic in light of the plain.....................

    Although the evil one still has limited power in a fallen world, it is far less than what he had when he was able to bind and blind all nations outside Israel. And believers can still overcome even Satan’s limited power, for James 4:7 commands us, “Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.” Revelation 12:11 testifies of the embattled saints that “they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony.” Hence, on the foundational truth of Satan’s having been bound from blinding the nations, the church may daily pray, “Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven” (Matt. 6:10), and find comfort in God’s assurance: “Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession” (Ps. 2:8).
    =================

    https://www.preteristarchive.com/

    https://www.preteristarchive.com/hopkins_binding-satan.html

    The Binding of Satan

    By Jim Hopkins

    In Gen 3:15 God told Satan that He would put enmity between him and the woman, between his seed and her seed; he would bruise his head and Satan would bruise his heel. You know this to be a prophecy of Christ overcoming Satan. But when does it happen? Some look for this event when Christ returns again. Others see a thousand year reign and then the overthrow of Satan. Perhaps a review of the scriptures will help clarify the matter.

    In Mt 12:28 Jesus said, "But if I by the Spirit of God cast out demons, then the Kingdom of God is come upon you. Or how can one enter into the house of the strong man, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man?" Just the preaching about the Kingdom of God at hand was another way telling of the overthrow of Satan. The pro-claiming release to the captives is a quote from Isa. 62 that Jesus spoke in his hometown synagogue. The phrase, "This day hath this scripture been fulfilled in your ears," also speaks of Satan's overthrow. (Lk 4:18,21).

    After the seventy returned from their preaching, they said that even the demons were made subject unto them. Jesus said, "I beheld Satan fallen as lightening from heaven. Behold, I have given you authority to tread upon serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy; and nothing shall in any wise hurt you." (Lk 10:18,19).

    After His triumphal entry, Jesus spoke of his coming death: "Now is the judgment of the world; now shall the prince of this world be cast out." (Jn 12:31). In speaking about the work of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit will convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment. (Jn 16:8). It is of judgment because the prince of this world hath been judged. (Jn 16:11).

    Now all of these statements speak as though the events of the cross have completed God's judgment on Satan. But the use of the present tense is consistent with Old Testament prophesy like Isa 9:6 "To us a child is born; to us a child is given." God "calls the things that are not, as though they were." (Rom 4:17). Jesus is also speaking in the same manner of Satan's overthrow. It will all tie in to the end of the age and the judgment of Israel." (regressive)

    To the Romans Paul spoke of "the God of peace bruising Satan under their feet shortly." (Rom 16:20). To Corinth Paul wrote that "the God of the age had blinded the unbelieving that the light of the gospel might not dawn upon them." (II Cor 4:4). To the Hebrews Paul wrote that "Jesus partook of flesh and blood that through death he might bring to nought him that had the power of death, that is, the devil." (Heb 2:14).
    Peter wrote that "the devil was going about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour." (I Pet 5:8). John says that "to this end was the Son of God manifested that he might destroy the works of the devil." (I Jn 3:8).

    So did Jesus accomplish what he came to do? The Book of Revelation is the story of this accomplishment. The Lord's Day is the Day of the Lord's Wrath -- not Sunday. It was the day that John the Baptist spoke about (Lk 3:7). Satan is no longer in charge of the world. Jesus now has the keys of death and Hades (Rev 1:18). Satan will cast some of you in prison but you will overcome him (Rev 2:10).
    In Chap 12 the devil stands before the woman to devour her son when he is born, but he is caught up to heaven to the throne of God. There is a war in heaven which Satan looses and he is thrown down to the earth. He knows that his time is short so persecutes the woman and her seed. I believe this chapter sums up the great events of the generation of Jesus and his apostles.

    Notice the introduction of the enemies of Christ and his church. First, the devil in Chap 12. Then the beast of the sea in Chap 13. Then the beast of the earth who turns out to be the False Prophet. Then Babylon is introduced. Then they are judged and fall in the reverse order of their introduction. Satan last of all falls in Chap 20.

    Now what do you see as the real purpose for Christ? Is it to restore man to the original garden paradise? A millennium in which Christ rules over the earth in perfect peace? Was His purpose to restore man in a perfect physical state free from disease and death? Or is the real mission a spiritual one that restores man to his relationship with God by making provision for sin and eternal death? This is really it!
    So when we read in Rev 21 that the new heaven and new earth have come down and God dwells in the midst of it, we are reading about the completion of Christ's work for us. The real paradise of God has been restored.
    No sin is there; the blood of Christ covers it. No death is there; all things are made new. Those who are in Christ Jesus today have entered into this new relationship.

    People are unable to accept that the Kingdom of God is present. They think in the physical realm where Satan still exists. But in the spiritual realm Satan has been removed from between man and his maker...........................

    May the Lord bless you in your study of God's Word.
    ====================================
    I tend to agree.........
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
  2. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

    +773
    United States
    Christian
    Married


    We're not entirely on the same page here, obviously. There is clearly prophecy in the OT that literally involves things post the 2nd coming, and also involves things as of the 2nd coming, as an example. How is that applicable to anything you said in this post and in the previous post?
     
  3. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    +4,883
    Christian
    Married
    Unless Paul is completely confused about the fire coming at His Second Coming in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and unless Peter is completely confused about the fire coming on "the day of the Lord", when He "comes as a thief" in 2 Peter 3:10-13, then we should be looking for the New Heavens and the New Earth to come on the day of His Second Coming.

    If you think there are any Old Testament prophecies that do not agree with Paul, and Peter, then you need to read those passages again.


    .
     
  4. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

    +4,893
    Anglican
    Married
    Maybe this is too large of a topic - I'm not sure....but it seems as if this thread has gone all over the place (or maybe it's just that studying Revelation is new to me -with a fresh perspective - so I'm getting a bit lost).

    Can we maybe focus on just comparing these passages (because it seems as if this might get to the place of disagreement and confusion without being too broad)? The two passages I'm referring to are:

    Then I saw thrones, and people took their seats on them, and judgment was given in their favor. They were the ones who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and God's word, and those who hadn't worshiped the beast or its image, who hadn't received the mark on their forehead or hand. They came to life and ruled with Christ for one thousand years.


    and


    When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar those who had been slaughtered on account of the word of God and the witness they had given.
    They cried out with a loud voice, "Holy and true Master, how long will you wait before you pass judgment? How long before you require justice for our blood, which was shed by those who live on earth?"
    Each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to rest a little longer, until their fellow servants and brothers and sisters—who were about to be killed as they were—were finished.


    Do you see these as the same event or different?

    To me.....they seem to be the SAME event - the intermediate state of the saints that were martyred for His word.

    Then look at Revelation 14:13, which states:

    Revelation 14:13 ~ Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”
    Meredith Kline explains,

    "This sabbath blessing is very much the same as the millennial blessing of Revelation 20:6. For the biblical concept of sabbath rest includes enthronement after the completion of labors by which royal dominion is manifested or secured (cf., e.g., Isa. 66:1). The sabbath rest of the risen Christ is His kingly session at God’s right hand. To live and reign with Christ is to participate in his royal sabbath rest. In Revelation 20:6 this blessedness is promised to those who have part in 'the first resurrection' and in the Revelation 14:13 equivalent it is pronounced on the dead who died in the Lord." ~ Primal Parousia - Meredith G. Kline Resource Site

    Sam Storms asks this question: "Why does the PM argue that anastasis (“resurrection”) must mean physical resurrection, although it occurs nowhere in Revelation outside chapter 20, but ignore thronos which never in Revelation refers to anything other than a heavenly throne (and that, in 40 texts!)?

    In Luke 1:32 the angel Gabriel refers to the “throne” of David on which the coming Messiah will sit in fulfillment of the divine promise,
    to which Peter makes explicit reference in Acts 2:30. In the verses which follow it is clear that Peter envisioned Christ’s resurrection and exaltation to have resulted in his enthronement at the right hand of the Father in fulfillment of Gabriel’s declaration.


     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
  5. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,272
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Hello mkgal.
    Revelation and Luke go together like white on rice......fulfilled in the 1st century........
    Luke uses the word "avenge and vengeance" more than Matt and Mark put together.
    Please visit my 70ad "days of vengeance" thread..........

    "DAYS OF VENGEANCE" Isaiah 61:2 and Luke 21:22 Revelation

    Isaiah 61:2
    To proclaim the year of the good pleasure of Yahweh,
    And the day of vengeance<5359> of our 'Elohiym, To comfort all mourners.

    Luke 4:
    17 the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. Unrolling it, He found the place where it was written:
    21 and He began by saying,
    “Today this Scripture is fulfilled<4137> in your hearing.”

    Luke 18:7
    The yet God not no should be doing the avenging<1557> of the chosen-ones of Him, the ones imploring to Him of day and night and is far-feeling on them.

    Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

    Luke 21:
    22 That days of vengeance<1557> these are, of the to be fulfilled<4130> all the having been written
    23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
    For there will be great Distress in the land and Wrath<3709> upon this people.

    Revelation 6:10
    And they cry out to a great voice saying "how long, Owner/Master<1203> the Holy and True, not Thou are judging and avenging<1556> the blood of us from out of the ones homing upon the land?"
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  6. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

    +773
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Actually I agree with that, yet we are not placing some of these things in the same era of time. This is where I feel chronology is helpful.

    Let's start with the 5th seal first.

    Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
    10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
    11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

    The martyrs already under the altar are told that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. This seems to tell us that the little season the martyrs are told to rest, this is when, back on earth, their fellowservants also and their brethren, are persecuted by the beast in Revelation 13, where many of them will end up martyrs. IOW this little season some are resting during, this runs parallel with the 42 month reign of the beast back on earth.

    How does this connect to Revelation 20:4 then?

    Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    Obviously, what I have underlined, all of these are martyred during the 42 month reign of the beast, IOW during the little season the other martyrs are resting during. We could then conclude, since the 5th seal and Revelation 20 both mention a little season, these are one and the same then. It might sound like this should be the conclusion to come to except for a cpl of things though.

    1---there is only one 42 month reign of the beast, and that it has to occur when satan is not in the pit, thus can't for sure occur during the thousand years.

    2----the 42 month reign of the beast has to be followed by the 2nd coming, thus the 42 month reign of the beast has to happen in the literal end of this age.


    3----Revelation 20:4 clearly and undeniably places the 42 month reign of the beast as already fulfilled and in the past when satan is loosed after the thousand years. Therefore the only logical place the 42 month reign of the beast can possibly fit is before the thousand years. This is clearly Premil in that case. Amil couldn't even remotely work with this. Yet Amils tell Premils that Premil is not the correct conclusion to be arriving at, while John in Revelation 20:4 is clearly telling us otherwise.

    Getting back to the 5th seal for a moment, I would like to make an additional point in which I neglected to do above.

    Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

    And if one looks at the 6th seal events, obviously this little season is now in the past at that point, also meaning the reign of the beast has been put to a stop, and that now it's payback time, IOW the beginning of the fulfilling of this---judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth. Meaning as of the 6th seal.

    As I have clearly demonstrated, the 42 month reign of the beast has to proceed the thousand years, not follow it. And Revelation 20:4 undeniably proves it, yet you all will remain in denial, regardless. You can count on it. Meaning any non Premil who places the 42 month reign of the beast in the end of this age. Since there are apparently also Preterists who feel the 42 month reign of the beast has already been fulfilled, my comment about being in denial would not apply in that case. I thought I should maybe make that clear since TLLJ's last post reminded me that not all non Premils place the 42 month reign in the end of this age.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
  7. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,272
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    The 42 months were fulfilled in the 1st Century.
    Please visit my Luke 21:24 Revelation 11:2 Revelation 13:10 thread.

    Captivity and sword Luke 21:24 Revelation 13:10

    Jeremiah 15:2
    “And it shall be, if they say to you, ‘Where should we go?' then you shall tell them, ‘Thus says the LORD:
    “Such as are for death, to death;
    And such as are for the sword, to the sword;
    And such as are for the famine, to the famine;
    And such as are for the captivity, to the captivity.” '


    Luke 21:24

    And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations. [Deuteronomy 28:68]
    And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
    [Revelation 11:2/Revelation 13:10]

    Revelation 11:
    1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary of the God and the Altar and those worshiping in it
    2 and the Court/fold<833> without of the Sanctuary, be Casting-Out!<1544> out-side, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the Nations and they shall be trampling<3961> the holy City forty two months.

    Revelation 13:10
    If any to-captivity, into captivity is going away.
    If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.

    Here is the endurance<5281> and the faith of the Saints

    The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

    Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, to which must be added, above TWO-HUNDRED AND THIRTY-SEVEN THOUSAND who perished in other places...... Of the captives the whole was about NINETY-SEVEN THOUSAND. Of the Two great leaders of the Jews, who had both been made prisoners, John was doomed to a dungeon for life ; while Simon, together with John, in triumph at Rome was scourged, and put to death as a malefactor.

    https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html

    TRACKING THE FIRST JEWISH REVOLT FROM A
    MILITARY POINT OF VIEW


    POV: Administrative | Factional | Military | Theological

    CAST OF CHARACTERS: Roman: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline

    CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

    Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
    Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
    Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
    Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
    Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
    Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
    Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70

     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
  8. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

    +773
    United States
    Christian
    Married

    But even a good majority of Amils would disagree with that. The way it looks to me then, maybe what I concluded wouldn't debunk a position such as you hold, but it would for sure debunk a position such as the typical Amil holds to, meaning the ones who agree that the 42 month reign fits in the end of this age and that the 2nd coming has to follow it.

    I may take a look at your thread later on, but I'm already 100% convinced that the 42 month reign of the beast has to happen in the end of this age, thus it couldn't possibly be already in the past and fulfilled. I don't buy that, regardless.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  9. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

    +773
    United States
    Christian
    Married

    What's ironic about some of this, I'm Premil which means I take some things in the literal sense. Many of you are Amil, which means you don't take some of these same things in the literal sense. I agree with the connection of Luke 21 with that of Revelation 11. Very little, if anything at all, in Revelation 11 am I taking in the literal sense though. And if this connects with some of Luke 21, some of that can't be meaning in the literal sense either, as in it literally involving literal Jerusalem in the first century. Some of this has to be spiritually discerned, and in my mind, Revelation 11 proves it.
     
  10. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,148
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    The final resurrection is of only the unsaved. The only judgment in the final one is to the LOF.


    There weren't any when he rose. People resurrected when he died. But then there is Lazarus and some child who were raised from the dead. There's many resurrections mentioned in scripture but Rev 20 only speaks of two mass bodily resurrections...one of the dead in Christ, and one of all the others.

    Yes, judgment day for the saved happens that day but judgment day for the unsaved happens much later.

    Yes but not reigning with the rod of iron over the nations...that's a type of reign meant only when it was time to leave the Father's right hand and come to the Earth. You can't force that particular reign into any other timeframe.




    Perfect tense is past tense not future. The Imperfect is future tense because it's not finished or perfected yet.

    The Qal Perfect with Strong Verbs

    "think of the perfect conjugation as the past tense in the active voice"
     
  11. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    +4,883
    Christian
    Married

    Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
    Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
    Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
    Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

    The timing of the event above is found below.

    Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

    This is confirmed by 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 where Paul describes Christ returning "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and Paul also revealing that the judgment of both the living and the dead occurs at His appearing in 2 Timothy 4:1.

    .
     
  12. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,272
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    I believe Armegeddon involved the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad and the Great City is 1st century Jerusalem and we are now in the 1000 yr period. I don't know how Amills view it.

    Gog Magog and the GWTis the next event...............

    Titus sieges Jerusalem on Feast of Passover/Destroyer in Revelation


    The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19
     
  13. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

    +559
    United States
    Word of Faith
    Married
    If we just leave Revelation in its God given order, all problems solved! Satan is cast down from the heavenly realms (wicked spirits in high places) at the midpoint of the 70th week. He will not be bound until the end of the 70th week just before the start of the millennial kingdom.
     
  14. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

    +559
    United States
    Word of Faith
    Married
    I hope you are not trying to tell us that Jesus' authority over the devil, extended now the church, is what this binding in Rev. 20 is? Of course it is NOT. While some believers do exercise authority of the devil today, He is still free to wreck havoc in other's lives. He is by no means "bound" today as he will be during the millennial reign of Christ.
     
  15. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

    +559
    United States
    Word of Faith
    Married
    Sorry, but yours is a very weak cement. Just so you will know, Jesus DID NOT COME in the first century. His coming is STILL future. The vast majority of scriptures prove this.
     
  16. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

    +773
    United States
    Christian
    Married

    I don't find issue with this. Yet it doesn't matter when satan gets cast to the earth, whether 2000 years ago, or whether still in our future, he still can't get bound until Revelation 12:17 has been fulfilled first. In my view, Revelation 12:17---and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ---this is meaning during the 42 month reign of the beast. The 42 month reign of the beast is meaning the GT. The GT is meaning the final half of the 70th week.
     
  17. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

    +559
    United States
    Word of Faith
    Married
    People resurrected when he died. Sorry, but this is not what is written: the graves were opened
    I agree: silly to think He can make war while bound!
     
  18. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

    +773
    United States
    Christian
    Married

    Like I have been going on about numerous times in the past, satan isn't bound indefinitely, he is only bound a thousand years. Therefore, what does all of the above you submitted mean when he is loosed?
     
  19. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

    +559
    United States
    Word of Faith
    Married
    People resurrected when he died. Sorry, but this is not what is written: the graves were opened at the earthquake but they did not rise until HE rose.
     
  20. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

    +773
    United States
    Christian
    Married

    Sometimes all that is required is using a little common sense from time to time. And like you pointed out, it would for sure be silly to think satan can still wage war while being bound in the pit. The same goes for him persecuting the woman, which is the first thing he sets out to do once he realizes he has been cast to to earth. He would not be doing that either while being bound in the pit. Nothing in Revelation 12 involves satan's binding. Yet Revelation 12:17 has to end with the 2nd coming eventually. And if satan isn't depicted as bound anywhere in all of chapter 12, what option does that leave remaining? That he is bound after Revelation 12:17 has been fulfilled. That's Premil not Amil.
     
Loading...