How can one respond to the scientific facts known in the Quran?

[Nithavela]

You say that, but how many books do we have from 'back then', and how many are about fires or the weather?

You clearly desperately want this stuff to be significant or important, but to someone without a religious agenda to push it's just 'Meh', or mildly interesting at best. The writings of the Ancient Greeks are far more impressive in terms of contemporary-sounding scientific and metaphysical ideas. Try Plato, or Aristotle on the soul, or Epicurus, Leucritius, Leucippus, & Democritus on atomism, etc.

QuranX.com The most complete Quran / Hadith / Tafsir collection available!

I rest my case.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

QuranX.com The most complete Quran / Hadith / Tafsir collection available!

I rest my case.

OK; well I hope it brings you some relief, whatever it was

 

[Nithavela]

OK; well I hope it brings you some relief, whatever it was

My case was that the stuff written there is nonsense from a scientific standpoint...

 

[Michael]

While I'm at it:

2-Darkness in deep water
From 1000 meters below the surface, there's a complete darkness; There's no sunlight at all. How could an illiterate man who lived 1400 years ago in a desert know such a thing? Did he really dive all that way?

When I was a kid, I was snorkeling down in La Jolla. There's a "trench" there that drops off dramatically at one point, and it's *significantly* darker as I was looking down. That experience made me realize that the water was blocking a lot of the light. It doesn't take much imagination to assume it gets completely dark at a deep enough depth.

I think you're "assuming" that humans of the past weren't as "smart" as we are today, when it in fact they were able to accomplish things that *still* amaze and mystify us today, like moving massive stones and building amazing monuments. We still don't know how they did some of the things they did, but they did. Trade was common among various civilizations and people shared stories of their experiences. Muhammad need not have seen everything he described, including the ocean, but it's hard to believe that he'd have been unaware of the fact that it gets darker as you go deeper into the water. Even most lakes aren't completely transparent.

Now don't get me wrong. I'm not dissing on the Qur'an, or trying to undermine your faith in any way, but IMO your faith shouldn't be based on such trivial issues as these few points. I'm sure it's not actually, but I don't think anyone is likely to be swayed by these kinds of arguments frankly.

 

[Michael]

Well, it's really not a good move to ignore all of what I have said, and bring a new topic. I kindly ask you to respond to each of my point instead of sending irrelevant videos. Concerning that video, I will address its points as much as I can and refute them, but I would like at first to see your response to my points.

Surely you've heard the phrase: Live by the sword, die by the sword?

If you're trying to build a case that scientific accuracy is the primary reason that someone should trust the Qu'ran (or any religious book), then certainly the opposite should be true too, right?

I just don't think it's a great idea to suggest that any ancient book is likely to be 100 percent scientifically accurate, or that it's accuracy should be the basis for one's faith in God. I don't even have a lot of faith in the material from scientific textbooks written in 1950, or even astronomy textbooks in circulation today for that matter.

 

[Greengardener]

Thanks for caring. I'm glad that you open your eyes, and I hope that you open them fully. The Quran teaches us that Jesus is a prophet of God, not his son, and even though he was prophet, the Jew's didn't touch him. God saved from them, and made someone appear like him who was instead crucified. I invite to study Islam more. It's the most reasonable and plausible religion today and back then. It doesn't have teach absurd beliefs. There's only eternal God that we worship.

I can understand. Does the Qu'ran record anything that Jesus said as a prophet? The reason I asked is that I've been taught that Jesus' own words are in the Bible. I know history testifies that Jesus existed apart from the Bible account. I'm asking because in the Bible it presents the testimony of more than 4 witnesses to establish the validity of Jesus' life, what he said and did. Tell me please what I need to know about the Qu'ran witnessing of what Jesus said and did.

 

[SkyWriting]

Most people today don't even know that clouds are heavy. I even didn't know until I read about them. Why do you think anyone in the past would think of them as heavy although they look the opposite. This website even admits that clouds look light
Big white clouds are light and fluffy right? Wrong! | Pursuit by The University of Melbourne

Storm clouds look so heavy that rain comes pouring out the bottom and the rain can cave in a roof. Those are heavy clouds and have been evident since history has been recorded. Water is quite heavy......and comes from clouds. Perhaps even birds know about what is in clouds....heavy water.

 

[SkyWriting]

How much does that happen in the desert?

It is especially prevalent in the desert. In harsh dry climates, it it the most common way for plants to spread over long distances to find rare good conditions.

 

[DamianWarS]

1-People even today still think of clouds of light formations of gases. I even thought though. Back then, people thought of clouds as a bunch a gases, and they believed that gases are weightless. Clouds don't really appear to have any weight at all, and the weight of clouds was only discovered lately.

2-Total darkness in deep water is 1000 meters below the surface. On the other hand, no one reported that the Prophet Muhammad dived in deep water below surface.

3-You literally came out with all the translated verses that didn't have the word fertilizing. The verse that I quoted is from sahib international. You can search it up, and it's actually the true one because the word لواقح is translated as fertilizers.

By the way, you missed the pulsars, and every one who replied doesn't bother to reply a good response to them. How sad...

sorry but post got cut off which is why it seems incomplete. it doesn't matter, the Quran is not making scientific claims like these and it is not on me to disproof them it is on you to prove how these seemingly random and vague descriptors have such profound scientific grasp far out of reach of its time. listing the verse and then the alleged scientific claim is the same as me hearing my dog bark and saying he just said 2+2=4. There simply is no proof you list here and all you have done is superimposed the verse over the scientific claim which doesn't mean anything at all. Even worse than that, you have copied and pasted these and they aren't even your own ideas. Read the passages and tell me how they make such claims because you briefly explain the science, you list the verse but fail to show how such a great leap can be made.

pulsars? the Quran speaks of no such thing, Arabic is a concrete language and develops abstracts using concretes, the "knocker" is the "night comer" as night time is when the doors are shut and people would come knocking but you left that part out didn't you. The stars are the knocker not because they pulse but because they come at night time. The root of the word is in physical knocking on a door associated with night time and it has nothing to do with stars. this is then used more abstractly to point to something that comes at night time but when it turns abstract the concrete qualifiers drop so when stars are described as the knocker it's not the sound qualifiers that are being used (which you are forcing) it is the "coming at night" qualifiers that is being used.

Christians do the exact same things and their claims are just as ridiculous. The Quran does not have a secret scientific code that is far out of reach of when it was written so it can be validated centuries later. If it did you certainly haven't given anything to show this.

You also fail to show that if these are the claims you say they are then why does this prove it is from God? We believe in a spiritual world with both good and evil with knowledge far out of our reach so simply saying something is profound doesn't mean its source is from God.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

My case was that the stuff written there is nonsense from a scientific standpoint...

OK, now I get it

 

[SkyWriting]

In the desert? And how come no one talked about those fire tornados.They are extremely rare, and only last a few time.

They exist in cooking fires. Everyone has one, every day of the year.
Any fire of any kind can have a tornado vortex in it.
You seem to insist that the Koran was written by simple minded idiots.
I don't agree. Many historians have noted that early civilizations
were more advanced in many ways than modern ones.

 

[Nithavela]

They exist in cooking fires. Everyone has one, every day of the year.
Any fire of any kind can have a tornado vortex in it.
You seem to insist that the Koran was written by simple minded idiots.
I don't agree. Many historians have noted that early civilizations
were more advanced in many ways than modern ones.

I get the impression Truth Seekers imagines the time the Koran was written as similiar to the stone age.

He reminds me of that crazy haired "aliens did it" guy.

 

[TruthSeeker321]

I can understand. Does the Qu'ran record anything that Jesus said as a prophet? The reason I asked is that I've been taught that Jesus' own words are in the Bible. I know history testifies that Jesus existed apart from the Bible account. I'm asking because in the Bible it presents the testimony of more than 4 witnesses to establish the validity of Jesus' life, what he said and did. Tell me please what I need to know about the Qu'ran witnessing of what Jesus said and did.

When the angels said, “O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary – distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allah ]. He will speak to the people in the cradle and in maturity and will be of the righteous. She said, “My Lord, how will I have a child when no man has touched me?” [The angel] said, “Such is Allah [God]; He creates what He wills. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, ‘Be,’ and it is,” (Surah 3, 45-47).

And when Allâh said, `O Jesus, son of Mary! did you say to the people, "Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allâh?"' He (-Jesus) replied, `Glory to You! it was not possible and proper for me to say thing to which I had no right. If I had said, You would indeed have known it, (for) You know all that is in my mind but I do not know what is in Yours. It is You alone Who truly know all things unseen.

 

[TruthSeeker321]

Maybe they don't *all* sound like a "knocking" noise, but some of them do:

If you skip to the 14 second mark and the 38 second mark and you'll hear some sounds that sound like "knocking". What makes you think they weren't talking about exploding "shooting" stars?

Okay, I'm gonna assume that the verse is talking about any other star. How did the Prophet Muhammad (May peace be upon him) knew that some stars made noises like that of knocking?

 

[Albion]

Thanks for caring. I'm glad that you open your eyes, and I hope that you open them fully. The Quran teaches us that Jesus is a prophet of God, not his son

It is hard to imagine how a prophet of God could also be a blasphemer, falsely represent himself as God, and in general lie about his identity.

and even though he was prophet, the Jew's didn't touch him. God saved from them, and made someone appear like him who was instead crucified.

and you know this to be true...how?

As for the physical science that this discussion started out to deal with, the ancients were aware of quite a lot that we moderns simply assume was not known by them and could not have been known by them. Gradually, we are learning how much knowledge was known but then lost only to be rediscovered in more recent years.

 

[TruthSeeker321]

You say that, but how many books do we have from 'back then', and how many are about fires or the weather?

You clearly desperately want this stuff to be significant or important, but to someone without a religious agenda to push it's just 'Meh', or mildly interesting at best. The writings of the Ancient Greeks are far more impressive in terms of contemporary-sounding scientific and metaphysical ideas. Try Plato, or Aristotle on the soul, or Epicurus, Leucritius, Leucippus, & Democritus on atomism, etc.

We had a good number of books back then
That's how we learned history, and how we obtained some detailed information on some specific incidents. It would be weird how someone out of all these people saw a fire tornado in the action, and didn't talk about although it has been reported in the Islamic the history, that the Prophet Muhammad(May peace be upon him) usually talked about the extraordinary events that occurred to him. For instance, he told us about Al-Isra' and Al mi'rag, and he told us about the animal that he rode to the seventh heaven. Moreover, not a single historian, not a philosopher, not a scientist mentioned anything about a fire tornado. It even wasn't known until the 19 century. Most people even today don't know that such a thing exists.

 

[essentialsaltes]

It is hard to imagine how a prophet of God could also be a blasphemer, falsely represent himself as God, and in general lie about his identity.

That's what the Jews accused Jesus of in the Biblical account. The Biblical accounts of Jesus actually making the claim to be a god is a lot weaker, in my view.

 

[TruthSeeker321]

They exist in cooking fires. Everyone has one, every day of the year.
Any fire of any kind can have a tornado vortex in it.
You seem to insist that the Koran was written by simple minded idiots.
I don't agree. Many historians have noted that early civilizations
were more advanced in many ways than modern ones.

Wait..what? Fire tornadoes are everywhere in fire cooking, and any kind of fire is a tornado? Is that the reason why we didn't knew them until they were discovered in the 19th century? I'm sure that you are making this up. I'm also sure that if I talked to you about the fire tornados in the 18th century, you might though crazy of me.

 

[Albion]

'Fire tornadoes' are not actually tornadoes. However dust devils, firewhirls, fire storms, and etc. were common in Arabia in Mohammad's time, so there is nothing special about this.

Most people today don't even know that clouds are heavy. I even didn't know until I read about them. Why do you think anyone in the past would think of them as heavy although they look the opposite.

Clouds were believed by the ancients to be living creatures, not weightless clumps of mist or the like.

 

[Michael]

Okay, I'm gonna assume that the verse is talking about any other star. How did the Prophet Muhammad (May peace be upon him) knew that some stars made noises like that of knocking?

As others have pointed out to you in this thread, your "interpretation" of the term "knocker" is itself rather suspect. The meaning of that single word in the Qur'an is interpreted differently in that passage by different individuals, so even your assertion that it means what you think it means, is debatable.

What about all the other things that are listed in the video that was cited earlier which are recorded in the Qur'an which are scientifically false? You haven't addressed any of those things, just the ideas that you're interested in asserting as being "correct" while ignoring the passages which are scientifically *incorrect*.

You appear to be "cherry picking" when it comes to what's recorded in the Qur'an, and making dubious assumptions about the meaning of individual words. It doesn't come across as being a convincing argument I'm afraid.