How can I be sure I’m one of the elect?

[Blaise N]

Hi everyone,


I’d like to ask the community for support please.I for the past months have discovered the theology of the chosen elect in the Bible,and I’m very concerned about wether I am one of the elect.For some if not most of you who know me and have supported me,does OCD and scrupulosity demonstrate that I am not an elect?, I have many unwanted doubts about faith and I’m always afraid that with the condition I’m in,that I may not be one of the elect. Can someone please help me?

 

[BobRyan]

Hi everyone,


I’d like to ask the community for support please.I for the past months have discovered the theology of the chosen elect in the Bible,and I’m very concerned about wether I am one of the elect.For some if not most of you who know me and have supported me,does OCD and scrupulosity demonstrate that I am not an elect?, I have many unwanted doubts about faith and I’m always afraid that with the condition I’m in,that I may not be one of the elect. Can someone please help me?

2 Peter 3 "God is not WILLING for any to perish but for ALL to come to repentance"

1 John 2:2 "he is the Atoning Sacrifice for OUR sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD"

John 12:32 "I will draw ALL mankind unto Me"

John 3:16 "God so loved the WORLD that HE gave" --- "yes really"

Rev 3: 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

=====================

So then how is it not ALL are saved?

Matt 23: 37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’

John 1:11 "He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him NOT"

Is 5:4 "what MORE was there to do than that which I have already done? Why then when I expected good fruit did it produce bad?"

======================= assurance

How then do we individually - personally know we are accepted?

Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

==============

OCD is a disorder that would predispose one to doubt and obsessing over doubt. Be sure the OCD condition is getting treated.

1. The first step is to admit that it is a predisposition that is not always an accurate statement of what is true in reality.
2. The second step is to reinforce the mind by staying focused on Christ and things above. This is why I keep posting that link to the free online (world's best) commentary on the Life of Christ.

 

[TheWhat?]

I don't believe the OCD is a sign of not being elect. OCD and related trauma can have all sorts of causes. If it's demonic oppression I would take that as a good sign. It's not that the OCD is a good thing in and of itself, it's that you're someone the enemy wants to attack.

Still, the root causes of the OCD need to be addressed because the attacks of the adversary are somewhat calculated. It always seems to be at whatever point your weakness is so you have to be pragmatic about building up a defense in your life.

 

[friend of]

All who come to Jesus He will never cast out. How can you know if you are of the elect? You agree you are a sinner. You acknowledge that only Jesus can save you. You believe it. You are saved.

 

[MikeinSeattle]

Hi everyone,


I’d like to ask the community for support please.I for the past months have discovered the theology of the chosen elect in the Bible,and I’m very concerned about wether I am one of the elect.For some if not most of you who know me and have supported me,does OCD and scrupulosity demonstrate that I am not an elect?, I have many unwanted doubts about faith and I’m always afraid that with the condition I’m in,that I may not be one of the elect. Can someone please help me?

The secret things belong to God.

 

[Mark Quayle]

It's in God's hands. Pursue him. Get to know him.

Read the Bible all you can. Not now and then, not some, but all you can. Get to know John 1's Word of God.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

Hi everyone,


I’d like to ask the community for support please.I for the past months have discovered the theology of the chosen elect in the Bible,and I’m very concerned about wether I am one of the elect.For some if not most of you who know me and have supported me,does OCD and scrupulosity demonstrate that I am not an elect?, I have many unwanted doubts about faith and I’m always afraid that with the condition I’m in,that I may not be one of the elect. Can someone please help me?

If you believe that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior, then you are one of the elect.

The ones who are not elected will never believe to begin with.

 

[anna ~ grace]

Hi everyone,


I’d like to ask the community for support please.I for the past months have discovered the theology of the chosen elect in the Bible,and I’m very concerned about wether I am one of the elect.For some if not most of you who know me and have supported me,does OCD and scrupulosity demonstrate that I am not an elect?, I have many unwanted doubts about faith and I’m always afraid that with the condition I’m in,that I may not be one of the elect. Can someone please help me?

Don’t overthink it.

Blaise, just keep trusting in Christ, and keep doing your best to live for Him, with His help. He’ll carry you, and bring you through this, and every, struggle. I like Mark and JM’s answers. Keep it simple, brother.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Hi everyone,


I’d like to ask the community for support please.I for the past months have discovered the theology of the chosen elect in the Bible,and I’m very concerned about wether I am one of the elect.For some if not most of you who know me and have supported me,does OCD and scrupulosity demonstrate that I am not an elect?, I have many unwanted doubts about faith and I’m always afraid that with the condition I’m in,that I may not be one of the elect. Can someone please help me?

The elect are simply those who have chosen Jesus Christ of Nazareth. If you have chosen Jesus Christ of Nazareth then you ARE part of the elect and in the Body of Christ. Do not ever doubt this.
Blessings.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Hi everyone,


I’d like to ask the community for support please.I for the past months have discovered the theology of the chosen elect in the Bible,and I’m very concerned about wether I am one of the elect.For some if not most of you who know me and have supported me,does OCD and scrupulosity demonstrate that I am not an elect?, I have many unwanted doubts about faith and I’m always afraid that with the condition I’m in,that I may not be one of the elect. Can someone please help me?

If God crafted one vessel to be a toilet, and another vessel to carry caviar - the point still stands that God crafted both said vessels.

The elect refers to a group within those who are called out from the world, these elect are called out from those who have been called out. Many are called, but few are chosen.

This just speaks of different callings, it's not about salvation.

 

[Ligurian]

2 Peter 3 "God is not WILLING for any to perish but for ALL to come to repentance"

1 John 2:2 "he is the Atoning Sacrifice for OUR sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD"

John 12:32 "I will draw ALL mankind unto Me"

John 3:16 "God so loved the WORLD that HE gave" --- "yes really"

Rev 3: 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

So then how is it not ALL are saved?

Out of context, not helpful at all. That last one is about people who have to go through the Great Tribulation to be purged... really not helpful.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 3:11 [Seeing] then all these things shall be dissolved, what manner [of persons] ought ye to be in holy behavior and piety,

Not willing that any [of us] should perish... is the real meaning.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the whole world. 3 And hereby we do know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto Me.
... [men] does NOT belong there: crucifixion made everything Jesus' possession.

Psalms 2:6 But I have been made King by Him on Sion His holy mountain, 7 declaring the ordinance of the Lord: the Lord said to Me, Thou art My Son, to-day have I begotten Thee. 8 Ask of Me, and I will give Thee the heathen for Thine inheritance, and the ends of the earth for Thy possession. 9 Thou shalt rule them with a rod of iron; Thou shalt dash them in pieces as a potter's vessel.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 18 He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
onoma = name (authority, character) ginomai = generated (come into being)

Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of My mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18 I counsel thee to buy of Me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear My voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me.

 

[Ligurian]

Hi everyone,


I’d like to ask the community for support please.I for the past months have discovered the theology of the chosen elect in the Bible,and I’m very concerned about wether I am one of the elect.For some if not most of you who know me and have supported me,does OCD and scrupulosity demonstrate that I am not an elect?, I have many unwanted doubts about faith and I’m always afraid that with the condition I’m in,that I may not be one of the elect. Can someone please help me?

Many are called, but few are chosen... chosen = elect.
Matthew 20:10-16

Do you know what it takes to be NOT elect?

1. Treat fellow believers like you deserve more than they do.
2. Question the authority of Jesus, the Son of our Father.

Do you do these things?

 

[Jeshu]

The teaching of election is dangerous, especially for people suffering from O.C.D, and is best refrained from. Scripture teaches that all those who call on the Name of The Lord shall be saved. i think it is best to go by that clear cut rule.

When you call on the name of the Lord to be saved then you are always saved. This is how i laid my O.C.D tendencies to rest, each time i feared my salvation i would call on the name of the Lord to save me. After i had done that then i knew i be saved for Scripture says so. Within a very short time in all my fearful self i had called out for the Lord to save me, and the fear that i wasn't saved hasn't plagued me since.

This is what you need to do my friend. Each time you doubt or fear the Lord call on Him to save you from that spiritual position, and i promise you He will do according to His word and save you, time and again. For God is always true to His word.

Know that God does not bring us a fearful mind and heart, but the devil loves doing that, and that calling on the Lord to save you from those lies pressing is what you need to experience a few times to know what it means to be saved by Christ for real.

Over the years Jesus has saved me from all my fears and taught me to love God instead of fear Him.

It is true, it was a hard road to follow, for i had to learn to trust Jesus on His word and not believe what those lies about Him and me all told me. Yet once i learned that trusting Jesus on His word, makes it come true, i moved very fast out of the grip satan had on me with all his lies.

This is really true! Suffering from O.C.D, like any mental illness, gives satan much easier access to your mind through the fears he can cast upon you through your illness. It is hard thinking rationally when we are overcome by our fears. This is why it is so important that mentally ill people learn to trust The Word, and let the truths of Scripture protect them from the lies satan fires their way through their ill minds.

Try it next time you fear your salvation, try calling out to God to save you! And then try believing that you are really saved! Even for a few seconds! For then you will see that the moment you believe the truth, the truth comes to your rescue and you feel heaps better. That is what it means to be really saved. When Jesus rescues you in real life from those fears assailing you.

But if on the other hand you believe those lies pressing then you feel terrible and suffer immense spiritual agony. Believing the lies make them come true, at least for you.

Seeing what power the truth had was the proof in my life that helped me turn to God to save me from my fears, and He really did and set me free from them altogether by teaching me to trust His word and not believe the lies of my ill mind any longer. It is great being free from those fears they used to pester me day in day out.

Jesus wants to do that for you as well. You can learn to call on the name of the Lord to be saved when you have been overcome by the lies of your ill mind. Then you will get better as well. For the truth heals us of our fears as His love casts our fears out one by one, time and again.

 

[Tolworth John]

does OCD and scrupulosity demonstrate that I am not an elect?,

No, only unbelief demonstrates that one is not one of the elect.

Doubts and questions are a demonstration that you are one of the elect, because you care about these matters.
The non Christian, the unelected has no interest in spiritual things.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Hi everyone,


I’d like to ask the community for support please.I for the past months have discovered the theology of the chosen elect in the Bible,and I’m very concerned about wether I am one of the elect.For some if not most of you who know me and have supported me,does OCD and scrupulosity demonstrate that I am not an elect?, I have many unwanted doubts about faith and I’m always afraid that with the condition I’m in,that I may not be one of the elect. Can someone please help me?

I think only someone who is one of the elect would ask such a question.

Perhaps Paul had OCD.

"Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." 2 Corinthians 12

 

[The Liturgist]

Hi everyone,


I’d like to ask the community for support please.I for the past months have discovered the theology of the chosen elect in the Bible,and I’m very concerned about wether I am one of the elect.For some if not most of you who know me and have supported me,does OCD and scrupulosity demonstrate that I am not an elect?, I have many unwanted doubts about faith and I’m always afraid that with the condition I’m in,that I may not be one of the elect. Can someone please help me?

Well, firstly, that’s Calvinist doctrine, which frankly I have outgrown - in part by realizing that John Calvin made a huge error, in that he based his determinism on what he thought the Early Church believed, but if you look at the writings of the early church, this is unsupported. The consensus patrum, to use a phrase of Calvinist origin, actually supports Arminius in so far as he believed in free will. All of the ancient churches (Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian Church of the East) believe in free will, and the same is true of the greater portion of Protestants.

Now, I am not saying you need to reject Calvinism or Calvinist churches; I just want you to be aware that your status as a member of the elect is interpreted in vastly different ways by a great many Christians.

So, my suggestion to you would be to seek baptism in a traditional church, a liturgical Protestant or Orthodox church, if you have not been baptized already (I would also suggest Roman Catholics except I have huge problems with Pope Francis and am afraid he will cause severe damage to that church). If you have been baptized, you need to find a pastor who understands your OCD and who can provide guidance. This could even be a Calvinist.

The danger you face, which Christians with OCD face, is an excessive religiosity which leads to excessive guilt and despair over our salvation, which the Bible says we should not engage in, and this can be self destructive.

You have to focus on the Scriptural fact that God is Love. “I will have mercy and not sacrifice,” said our Lord. God loves us so much that He died on the cross in order to defeat death and make resurrection a possibility for us, recreating humanity in His own image.

God bless you.

 

[Randy777]

Hi everyone,


I’d like to ask the community for support please.I for the past months have discovered the theology of the chosen elect in the Bible,and I’m very concerned about wether I am one of the elect.For some if not most of you who know me and have supported me,does OCD and scrupulosity demonstrate that I am not an elect?, I have many unwanted doubts about faith and I’m always afraid that with the condition I’m in,that I may not be one of the elect. Can someone please help me?

If you are in Christ you are Abrahams seed and heirs according to the promise.

The test to see if you are in the faith.
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?

The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.

Those God calls His children
children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

 

[BobRyan]

In this response we see the will of God to save all.

2 Peter 3 "God is not WILLING for any to perish but for ALL to come to repentance"

1 John 2:2 "he is the Atoning Sacrifice for OUR sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD"

John 12:32 "I will draw ALL mankind unto Me"

John 3:16 "God so loved the WORLD that HE gave" --- "yes really"

Rev 3: 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

=====================

So then how is it not ALL are saved?

Matt 23: 37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’

John 1:11 "He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him NOT"

Is 5:4 "what MORE was there to do than that which I have already done? Why then when I expected good fruit did it produce bad?"

======================= assurance

How then do we individually - personally know we are accepted?

Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

==============

OCD is a disorder that would predispose one to doubt and obsessing over doubt. Be sure the OCD condition is getting treated.

1. The first step is to admit that it is a predisposition that is not always an accurate statement of what is true in reality.
2. The second step is to reinforce the mind by staying focused on Christ and things above. This is why I keep posting that link to the free online (world's best) commentary on the Life of Christ.

Out of context, not helpful at all.

interesting.

I prefer scripture in this case.

Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

That last one is about people who have to go through the Great Tribulation to be purged... really not helpful.

No reference to survive or having gone through tribulation at all in the texts I posted.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 3:11 [Seeing] then all these things shall be dissolved, what manner [of persons] ought ye to be in holy behavior and piety,

Not willing that any [of us] should perish... is the real meaning.

Actually the text is about God delaying the second coming so that more people hear the gospel and come to Christ in repentance in 2 Peter 3.

 

[Ligurian]

Rev 3: 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of My mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18 I counsel thee to buy of Me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear My voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me.

No reference to survive or having gone through tribulation at all in the texts I posted.

Revelation 3:20-21 in context... you must think context doesn't matter.
Revelation 3:16 has Jesus vomitting them out.
Revelation 3:17 = Matthew 25:10-12 (Revelation 3:8 = Matthew 25:4)
Revelation 3:18 means going through the Great Tribulation.

They're these seeds:
Matthew 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

 

[fide]

Hi everyone,


I’d like to ask the community for support please.I for the past months have discovered the theology of the chosen elect in the Bible,and I’m very concerned about whether I am one of the elect.For some if not most of you who know me and have supported me,does OCD and scrupulosity demonstrate that I am not an elect?, I have many unwanted doubts about faith and I’m always afraid that with the condition I’m in,that I may not be one of the elect. Can someone please help me?

Your concern, "I’m very concerned about whether I am one of the elect" - St. Peter directly addresses the matter here (bold added by me for emphasis):

The Power of God’s Promise:

2 Peter 1:3 His divine power has bestowed on us everything that makes for life and devotion, through the knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and power.
4 Through these, he has bestowed on us the precious and very great promises, so that through them you may come to share in the divine nature, after escaping from the corruption that is in the world because of evil desire.
5 For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, virtue with knowledge,
6 knowledge with self-control, self-control with endurance, endurance with devotion,
7 devotion with mutual affection, mutual affection with love.
8 If these are yours and increase in abundance, they will keep you from being idle or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 Anyone who lacks them is blind and shortsighted, forgetful of the cleansing of his past sins.
10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more eager to make your call and election firm, for, in doing so, you will never stumble.
11 For, in this way, entry into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ will be richly provided for you.​

Peter's answer to the issue is a full-time 24/7/365 remaining in Jesus life of a disciple. Our goal: share in His divine nature! And remain in that holiness! Live in that holiness, in Him. Such is a life of repentance, of conversion, of devotion, of self-giving into His holy will. Such a life is attained only by and in and with His Holy Grace, by those who seek and ask and knock self-sacrificially at the door of His Sacred Heart.