How can/do firearms glorify God?

[SnowyMacie]

I've taken the time to read through some of these threads, and this has come up a couple of times and it's utterly mind boggling to me. I don't own a gun, I've thought about buying one for self-defense, but it would be something that I would hope I never have to use and only use it as a last resort, and never to kill. Yet, I've seen multiple people on here saying it can glorify God, even one person saying they're gift. It's utterly foreign to me how a Christian can see an object built to destroy is a gift from God?

 

[Servant68]

Firearms Forum Statement of Purpose

There is nothing unChristian about owning firearms, though Christians can have a legitimate diversity of opinions on their proper usage. All disagreements between members should remain light and not turn into a serious debate. Such debates are better suited to other forums.

Some specific guidelines for this forum include:
1. This is a safehouse forum for firearms enthusiasts, criticizing or mocking gun owners is not alowed.
2. This forum is intended to be informational and not for debate. There may be some disagreements, but these should be handled with grace towards one another rather than attacking one another.

 

[GeorgeJ]

I've taken the time to read through some of these threads, and this has come up a couple of times and it's utterly mind boggling to me. I don't own a gun, I've thought about buying one for self-defense, but it would be something that I would hope I never have to use and only use it as a last resort, and never to kill. Yet, I've seen multiple people on here saying it can glorify God, even one person saying they're gift. It's utterly foreign to me how a Christian can see an object built to destroy is a gift from God?

From the statement of purpose:

2. This forum is intended to be informational and not for debate. There may be some disagreements, but these should be handled with grace towards one another rather than attacking one another.

Start another thread in another forum if you want a debate / discussion.

 

[SeventyOne]

I've taken the time to read through some of these threads, and this has come up a couple of times and it's utterly mind boggling to me. I don't own a gun, I've thought about buying one for self-defense, but it would be something that I would hope I never have to use and only use it as a last resort, and never to kill. Yet, I've seen multiple people on here saying it can glorify God, even one person saying they're gift. It's utterly foreign to me how a Christian can see an object built to destroy is a gift from God?

It's the same as any weapon, it can destroy, but it can also preserve and protect.

You'll never find the Lord condemning weapons, only some actions people have committed using weapons. He didn't send the Israelite armies out to fight, to bring glory to Himself, using brooms and bags of olives.

 

[PRESIDIO]

I've taken the time to read through some of these threads, and this has come up a couple of times and it's utterly mind boggling to me. I don't own a gun, I've thought about buying one for self-defense, but it would be something that I would hope I never have to use and only use it as a last resort, and never to kill. Yet, I've seen multiple people on here saying it can glorify God, even one person saying they're gift. It's utterly foreign to me how a Christian can see an object built to destroy is a gift from God?

Hi there. So, I think a lot of times we misunderstand people by what we don't know about them or what we may assume about them. I don't necessarily see "using firearms" as glorifying God but, I do not see protecting innocent life as unGodly. However, where I believe I glorify The Lord is who I am as an instructor of firearms. I witness to my students. I make no apologies for loving The Lord and everyone who receives instruction from me knows that. I work hard to be a man of God above reproach. I think that glorifies God even in a class on the instruction of firearms.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Firearms Forum Statement of Purpose

There is nothing unChristian about owning firearms, though Christians can have a legitimate diversity of opinions on their proper usage. All disagreements between members should remain light and not turn into a serious debate. Such debates are better suited to other forums.

Some specific guidelines for this forum include:
1. This is a safehouse forum for firearms enthusiasts, criticizing or mocking gun owners is not alowed.
2. This forum is intended to be informational and not for debate. There may be some disagreements, but these should be handled with grace towards one another rather than attacking one another.

From the statement of purpose:

2. This forum is intended to be informational and not for debate. There may be some disagreements, but these should be handled with grace towards one another rather than attacking one another.

Start another thread in another forum if you want a debate / discussion.

I'm not debating, I'm trying to understand.

It's the same as any weapon, it can destroy, but it can also preserve and protect.

You'll never find the Lord condemning weapons, only some actions people have committed using weapons. He didn't send the Israelite armies out to fight, to bring glory to Himself, using brooms and bags of olives.

How do you interpret the passage about the morning after Gethsemane where Jesus rubukes Peter who draws sword saying "those who live by the sword, die by the sword" and then heals the man's ear? Jesus's words about turning the other cheek amd giving your cloak as well?

Hi there. So, I think a lot of times we misunderstand people by what we don't know about them or what we may assume about them. I don't necessarily see "using firearms" as glorifying God but, I do not see protecting innocent life as unGodly. However, where I believe I glorify The Lord is who I am as an instructor of firearms. I witness to my students. I make no apologies for loving The Lord and everyone who receives instruction from me knows that. I work hard to be a man of God above reproach. I think that glorifies God even in a class on the instruction of firearms.

Do you ever feels moral qualms about one of your students? In other words, something just feels off about somone in your class and you're not sure they're there for the right reasons. What do you do in that situation?

 

[Darkhorse]

I'm not debating, I'm trying to understand.



How do you interpret the passage about the morning after Gethsemane where Jesus rubukes Peter who draws sword saying "those who live by the sword, die by the sword" and then heals the man's ear? Jesus's words about turning the other cheek amd giving your cloak as well?

Jesus was the Messiah.

He had to die a sacrificial death to take away the sins of humanity.

Peter's well-intentioned attempt to defend Him was misdirected, since preventing Jesus' death would have left us all in sin.

However, I am not the Messiah; neither are my family and friends.
Our sacrificial deaths will not save anyone, including ourselves.

Therefore, my wife and I carry our guns, but hope we never have to use them.


If a person lives a life of violence and lawlessness, they can expect to die violently.
This life describes the criminal, not the law-abiding defender.


I used to struggle with this "turn the other cheek" passage also, but I learned the hard way that Christian ethics are much more complicated than surrender.

If a person has others depending on them for protection, provision, or other needs, then that person has a very limited - possibly non-existent - right to passively surrender and not fight.

Should a mother with small children blithely allow a kidnapper to abduct one of her children, who will probably be sexually abused and killed? Should a husband tell a home invader to take whatever he wants and go, trusting that a criminal will stop there? Should a soldier tell his fellow soldiers "Hey, I'm through with this killing stuff. You guys go on without me"?

We may (or may not) have the right to not fight in our own defense when no one else depends on us. We DON'T have that right when others depend on us. Our passiveness puts them in danger.

 

[SeventyOne]

How do you interpret the passage about the morning after Gethsemane where Jesus rubukes Peter who draws sword saying "those who live by the sword, die by the sword" and then heals the man's ear? Jesus's words about turning the other cheek amd giving your cloak as well?

That quote concerning the sword is contextual. We are told immediately prior to that, the crowd was large, armed, and looking for a fight. His response to Peter was that those who would take up a sword to fight against the crowd would die.

It might shock you to learn Jesus never actually said, "those who live by the sword, die by the sword". It's been twisted into that to make it seem like some life axiom, but rather He said, "those who take the sword will perish by the sword". That word 'take' right there means just what it says, take or lay hold of. In short, He was telling Peter to put the sword down or he would die, and then immediately reminds him that if He wanted to fight, He could call more than 12 legions of angels.

As far as turning the other cheek, He is discussing persecution for believing in Him. Someone breaking into your home to potentially harm yourself, family, or property, aren't doing so because of your relationship with Christ.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Jesus was the Messiah.

He had to die a sacrificial death to take away the sins of humanity.

Peter's well-intentioned attempt to defend Him was misdirected, since preventing Jesus' death would have left us all in sin.

However, I am not the Messiah; neither are my family and friends.
Our sacrificial deaths will not save anyone, including ourselves.

Therefore, my wife and I carry our guns, but hope we never have to use them.


If a person lives a life of violence and lawlessness, they can expect to die violently.
This life describes the criminal, not the law-abiding defender.


I used to struggle with this "turn the other cheek" passage also, but I learned the hard way that Christian ethics are much more complicated than surrender.

If a person has others depending on them for protection, provision, or other needs, then that person has a very limited - possibly non-existent - right to passively surrender and not fight.

Should a mother with small children blithely allow a kidnapper to abduct one of her children, who will probably be sexually abused and killed? Should a husband tell a home invader to take whatever he wants and go, trusting that a criminal will stop there? Should a soldier tell his fellow soldiers "Hey, I'm through with this killing stuff. You guys go on without me"?

We may (or may not) have the right to not fight in our own defense when no one else depends on us. We DON'T have that right when others depend on us. Our passiveness puts them in danger.

So, basically turn the other cheek does not apply when we are protecting/defending other people, and you aren't sure about ourselves? What do you think about the Bishop in Les Miserables allowing himself to be robbed by Jean Valjean by essentially giving him what he stole to become an honest man? For me at least, that seems like the most Christ-like response to being robbed.

That quote concerning the sword is contextual. We are told immediately prior to that, the crowd was large, armed, and looking for a fight. His response to Peter was that those who would take up a sword to fight against the crowd would die.

It might shock you to learn Jesus never actually said, "those who live by the sword, die by the sword". It's been twisted into that to make it seem like some life axiom, but rather He said, "those who take the sword will perish by the sword". That word 'take' right there means just what it says, take or lay hold of. In short, He was telling Peter to put the sword down or he would die, and then immediately reminds him that if He wanted to fight, He could call more than 12 legions of angels.

As far as turning the other cheek, He is discussing persecution for believing in Him. Someone breaking into your home to potentially harm yourself, family, or property, aren't doing so because of your relationship with Christ.

So essentially, turning the only cheek only pertains to persecution? What do you think about the Bishop in Les Miserables allowing himself to be robbed by Jean Valjean by essentially giving him what he stole to become an honest man? For me at least, that seems like the most Christ-like response to being robbed.

 

[SeventyOne]

So essentially, turning the only cheek only pertains to persecution? What do you think about the Bishop in Les Miserables allowing himself to be robbed by Jean Valjean by essentially giving him what he stole to become an honest man? For me at least, that seems like the most Christ-like response to being robbed.

I'm not going to get into a debate with you over a believers right of self-defense. Your stance is between you and God.

Also, I don't know anything about Les Miserables. I tried watching it once and 10 or 15 minutes into it I was so bored out of my skull that I had to stop watching.

 

[Darkhorse]

So, basically turn the other cheek does not apply when we are protecting/defending other people, and you aren't sure about ourselves? What do you think about the Bishop in Les Miserables allowing himself to be robbed by Jean Valjean by essentially giving him what he stole to become an honest man? For me at least, that seems like the most Christ-like response to being robbed.

You are equating allowing a thief to steal your money with murder, rape, mayhem, and other expressions of the criminal mind.

If you want to allow someone to steal your stuff, go ahead. It might be covered by insurance. It might be something you can afford. It might (or might not) be a very Christian thing to do.

On the other hand, how do you explain to a mother why you didn't protect her kid when you could?
How do you explain to your wife how it was better for her to get raped than for you (or her) to shoot her attacker? How do you explain why you trusted a criminal to honor their word ("Don't resist and I won't hurt you")? How do you care for your dependents when you're dead?

The laws of many states do not allow the use of deadly force to protect property (like punks stealing hubcaps and running away). But using deadly force against a robber is legally and morally justified because they aren't just stealing your property; they are threatening you (or others) with death or great bodily harm. And if you think giving them what they want ensures that you won't get hurt, I know some dead people you should talk to...

 

[-Luca]

I will swiftly attempt to answer your question brother. But how will I do this, you ask? With a quote. For I see it to be unecessary to babble on and to debate. Worry about what I am to shed light on and nothing else here.

"For all who draw the sword will die by the sword"

You have your answer.

 

[Darkhorse]

I will swiftly attempt to answer your question brother. But how will I do this, you ask? With a quote. For I see it to be unecessary to babble on and to debate. Worry about what I am to shed light on and nothing else here.

"For all who draw the sword will die by the sword"

You have your answer.

Yes, I do - in post #7 above.

 

[-Luca]

Yes, I do - in post #7 above.

You are a friendly one aren't you, where did they find you?

 

[Servant68]

You are a friendly one aren't you, where did they find you?

Your condescending tone is not welcome here. Please leave and come back when you have matured and can have a grown up discussion.

 

[-Luca]

.

 

[-Luca]

Your condescending tone is not welcome here. Please leave and come back when you have matured and can have a grown up discussion.

Apologies, did not mean to offend anyone. Showing a lack of respect to one another is wrong and for that I am sorry. I need to work on my pride and stop acting like I am superior.
God bless brother and thank you for helping me

 

[Darkhorse]

You are a friendly one aren't you, where did they find you?

Thank you, I try...

Actually, some of my ancestors trace back to England.
They lived in the American colonies, but when the American Revolution broke out, they ran off to Canada, since they were Tories (loyal to the king).

In 1900, my grandfather emigrated to the U.S.A.
And he owned at least one gun.

 

[HawgWyld]

I've taken the time to read through some of these threads, and this has come up a couple of times and it's utterly mind boggling to me. I don't own a gun, I've thought about buying one for self-defense, but it would be something that I would hope I never have to use and only use it as a last resort, and never to kill. Yet, I've seen multiple people on here saying it can glorify God, even one person saying they're gift. It's utterly foreign to me how a Christian can see an object built to destroy is a gift from God?

I've wondered the same thing a time or two. However, I regard my pistols as mere tools that I hope I'll never have to use rather than objects that somehow honor God.

Of course, it could just be the fact that I'm a lifelong Arkansan and guns are as common as sin here (if you'll pardon the expression). I've been exposed to them for as long as I can remember and it's just part of the culture.

One thing interesting about your comment here -- you don't plan to kill someone with a gun yet you are considering one for self defense? If you point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, the chances are very good that person won't survive the encounter. Most people who train folks for self defense recommend hitting center mass and sticking with a large enough caliber to neutralize an assailant, and the goal here is clear -- get 'em before they get you and the best way to do that is to put a few rounds in a vulnerable spot. If you can't accept that, you might want to think twice about purchasing a firearm...

 

[Rigatoni]

Firearms can be used for sport, such as for shooting clay and cardboard targets; we even have sport shooting in the Olympics. And if someone is able to purchase a firearm for self-defense, that can be considered a gift from God, because He's giving you the ability to defend yourself and your loved ones.

Just because certain Christians believe God can be glorified through firearms doesn't mean we believe He's always glorified through firearms; many people do misuse them. Also, that doesn't mean that we are "idolizing guns" or saying they should be used recklessly - quite the contrary. Some people may see guns as being built to destroy, while others see them as being built to protect and for sport.