How can baptism be required for salvation?

[Doug Brents]

Where is baptism commanded for salvation?

Direct command
Mark 16:16
Acts 2:38

Demonstrated application
Acts 8:37-38
Acts 22:16

Reference to what happens
Rom 6:1-11
Col 2:11-14

 

[GodLovesCats]

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Mark 16:16 only says you have to believe to be saved, not baptized.

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Again, no reference to baptism in water being required for salvation. In fact, because Peter told everyone, "in the name of Jesus Christ . . ." (not of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit), he was talking about being baptized by the Holy Spirit, who then gives you one of His gifts (tongues, healing, hospitality, teaching, and three more).

I just noticed Acts 8:37 is missing in the NIV.

Romans 7 does not mention baptism at all.

Colossians 2 explains why the only correct way to get baptized is via immersion after you have believed.

 

[disciple Clint]

Yes, but Jesus had not yet died at that point. Until he dies, a man’s Will can be changed as he sees fit. So too, until He died, Christ could do anything He wanted in terms of who He saved.

You lost me, so are you saying that Christ cannot do His will now because He is dead.

 

[disciple Clint]

The scriptures don’t say that he wasn’t baptized. People had been being baptized for over three years by this time and they were coming in huge numbers to be baptized. It’s very possible that the thief had already been baptized.

Based on what do you believe what you posted.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes, the Holy Spirit fell on them (with miraculous manifestation) before they were saved in water baptism. This is the same thing that Acts 8 is talking about; the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit. Simon didn’t want to buy the indwelling. He wanted to buy the ability to lay hands on and give miraculous power to others (Acts 8:19).

But miraculous gifts are not the indwelling. The Spirit dwells in our hearts today, yet there are no legitimate “miracle workers” today (nor, I believe, has there been one in 1900 years (since the last Apostle died) but that is a discussion for another thread).

How can you say that with any certainty? There’s no verse that says Cornelius and his family didn’t receive the indwelling Spirit your just assuming they didn’t. According to the scriptures I provided it appears that the Holy Spirit is given at God’s discretion not automatically after baptism. Cornelius and his family received the Holy Spirit before they were baptized and the people in Acts 8 didn’t receive it after they were baptized so it would seem that baptism is not an event that automatically triggers the Holy Spirit.

 

[Doug Brents]

Mark 16:16 only says you have to believe to be saved, not baptized.

Oh, the hard of heart.

If 2 conditions are given, the one being the prerequisite of the second, and then you say if you don’t do the first you don’t get the reward, that does not mean the second is unnecessary. It means that the second requires the first. If the first is not present the second is meaningless. But if the first is present then the second has meaning and is required also.

That is the case here. Baptism is meaningless if you do not believe. But if you believe and are not baptized you still do not receive salvation. Only when both conditions are met is the blessing received

Again, no reference to baptism in water being required for salvation. In fact, because Peter told everyone, "in the name of Jesus Christ . . ." (not of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit), he was talking about being baptized by the Holy Spirit, who then gives you one of His gifts (tongues, healing, hospitality, teaching, and three more).

Is Christ not also God? Reference to one is reference to all. This is not reference to Spirit Baptism. Peter was answering their question, “What must WE do?” They weren’t asking what would God do. They had to repent and be baptized.

I just noticed Acts 8:37 is missing in the NIV.

Indeed. Some of the ancient manuscripts don’t include that statement, so some translations don’t include it. But that is neither here nor there. It is clear that water baptism (not Spirit Baptism) was part of Philip’s teaching about Jesus, because it is the Eunuch who points out the water and asks to be baptized.

Romans 7 does not mention baptism at all.

I fat-fingered that. It should have been Acts 6:1-11. I apologize.

Colossians 2 explains why the only correct way to get baptized is via immersion after you have believed.

Indeed, the word baptize means “to dip or immerse”. And as pointed out in Mark 16, it must follow after belief. But if you notice in the passage here it is DURING baptism that the Spirit takes action to remove sin and unite us with Christ.
“Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”
Wherein what? In baptism we are raised with Christ (not before).

 

[Doug Brents]

You lost me, so are you saying that Christ cannot do His will now because He is dead.

No. I am saying that His will is now written in the Bible and it doesn’t change from one person to the next. The covenant is the same for you, for me, and for the man from the 1st century. From the moment Christ died until the end of the world everyone was, is, and will be subject to the same requirements for salvation; and those are written in New Testament scripture. They are: believe, repent, confess Jesus’ name, and be baptized.

 

[d taylor]

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requirements for salvation; and those are written in New Testament scripture. They are: believe, repent, confess Jesus’ name, and be baptized.

Perfect example above in italics, of a man crafted salvation using Bible verses.

 

[Doug Brents]

How can you say that with any certainty? There’s no verse that says Cornelius and his family didn’t receive the indwelling Spirit your just assuming they didn’t. According to the scriptures I provided it appears that the Holy Spirit is given at God’s discretion not automatically after baptism. Cornelius and his family received the Holy Spirit before they were baptized and the people in Acts 8 didn’t receive it after they were baptized so it would seem that baptism is not an event that automatically triggers the Holy Spirit.

Several reasons I am certain of that.
First, if Peter believed that the Spirit’s coming on Cornelius and family indicated they were saved, he wouldn’t have suggested that they be baptized in water afterwards.
Second, we still have the indwelling today, but there are no miraculous gifts given today because the purpose for which they were given has ended (proving the validity of the message).
Third, the Scriptures show one path to salvation, not a different path for each person. Acts 2:38 says that the Holy Spirit is a reward or result of repentance and baptism.
Yes, there were quite a few things that were different in the first century. Things were just getting started in the Church and even the Apostles didn’t have all the answers right away. But I believe that those were anomalies, not indications of the norm.

 

[Doug Brents]

_​

requirements for salvation; and those are written in New Testament scripture. They are: believe, repent, confess Jesus’ name, and be baptized.

Perfect example above in italics, of a man crafted salvation using Bible verses.

There is nothing “man crafted” salvation to that.

There is only one author to Scripture: God. He used many men to “ghost write” His Word, but He is the author. There is no contradiction or error in His Word. That means that ALL of it is one unified instruction.
Now, if in one place it says “believe and be saved”, and in another place it says “repent and be baptized to be saved”, which is it? If there is no error or contradiction, it MUST be both! So EVERYTHING that the Bible says leads to salvation (or forgiveness, or eternal life, or any of the other symptoms for being reunited with God) must be included in our understanding of what it takes to receive salvation.

We can’t pick and choose the ones that make us feel good, or that we think He meant, and exclude the ones that we don’t “feel”.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I agree. But most people I know use the term “believer” to indicate someone who is saved. That is why I put that in quotes.

Absolutely one must believe before they are baptized, but just believing does not make one saved. That was the point I was trying (and evidently failing) to make.

Paul said that it’s the gospel that has the power to save.

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:9-14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[d taylor]

There is nothing “man crafted” salvation to that.

There is only one author to Scripture: God. He used many men to “ghost write” His Word, but He is the author. There is no contradiction or error in His Word. That means that ALL of it is one unified instruction.
Now, if in one place it says “believe and be saved”, and in another place it says “repent and be baptized to be saved”, which is it? If there is no error or contradiction, it MUST be both! So EVERYTHING that the Bible says leads to salvation (or forgiveness, or eternal life, or any of the other symptoms for being reunited with God) must be included in our understanding of what it takes to receive salvation.

We can’t pick and choose the ones that make us feel good, or that we think He meant, and exclude the ones that we don’t “feel”.

Since you pick and chose verses, how do you know your order is right. Why is it not repent, confess, baptize and believe. or confess, repent, believe and baptize. etc.....

Show me where your order is used in any one single area in The Bible. When a person is telling a person how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life

 

[d taylor]

There is nothing “man crafted” salvation to that.

There is only one author to Scripture: God. He used many men to “ghost write” His Word, but He is the author. There is no contradiction or error in His Word. That means that ALL of it is one unified instruction.
Now, if in one place it says “believe and be saved”, and in another place it says “repent and be baptized to be saved”, which is it? If there is no error or contradiction, it MUST be both! So EVERYTHING that the Bible says leads to salvation (or forgiveness, or eternal life, or any of the other symptoms for being reunited with God) must be included in our understanding of what it takes to receive salvation.

We can’t pick and choose the ones that make us feel good, or that we think He meant, and exclude the ones that we don’t “feel”.

So people had to wait till The Bible was bound and published before they could know God's salvation plan. So they could read the whole Bible and pick out these verses you have selected.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Several reasons I am certain of that.
First, if Peter believed that the Spirit’s coming on Cornelius and family indicated they were saved, he wouldn’t have suggested that they be baptized in water afterwards

That’s an assumption, not conclusive evidence. He could’ve had them baptized as an outward expression of their faith.

Third, the Scriptures show one path to salvation, not a different path for each person.

The path is repentance and believing in the gospel not water baptism. The scriptures repeatedly state that whosoever believes will be saved not whosoever believes and is baptized in water will be saved.

 

[Doug Brents]

Paul said that it’s the gospel that has the power to save.

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:9-14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Indeed, the Gospel, the good news about who Christ is and what He did (that only He could do) to give us a way to be reunited with God does have the power to save. But as I have said, you cannot pick and choose your favorite Scriptures and ignore the rest.
Yes, Rom 10:9-10 only mentions belief and confession of Jesus’ name. But that is not the only Scripture that mentions something that leads to salvation. Acts 3:19 says repentance is required because it leads to forgiveness. Acts 2:38 says repentance and baptism are required. John 3:16 only mentions belief. Which one do these is not inspired by the Holy Spirit? Which one of these is not God’s direct command. They all are, so all of them must be part of the Gospel message. And we know that it is because we see the results of the Gospel taught by Philip to the Eunuch when the Eunuch pointed to the water and asked to be baptized.

Again, this is not me coming up with an idea and looking through Scripture to find evidence that says what I want. I started this study by looking at every Scripture that said anything about salvation, forgiveness, reunion with God, inheriting Heaven, etc. I then sifted through them to the ones that said what was required to receive that blessing. That is how I came to the conclusion that belief in Christ, confession of His name, repentance from sin, and baptism into Him are ALL required to receive salvation.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Since you pick and chose verses, how do you know your order is right. Why is it not repent, confess, baptize and believe. or confess, repent, believe and baptize. etc.....

Show me where your order is used in any one single area in The Bible. When a person is telling a person how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life

Paul said that the gospel is the power unto salvation. To me that means that a person can be saved by believing the gospel. If baptism was absolutely necessary for salvation then the gospel would not be the power unto salvation because salvation cannot be attained by the gospel itself.

 

[Doug Brents]

So people had to wait till The Bible was bound and published before they could know God's salvation plan. So they could read the whole Bible and pick out these verses you have selected.

No. The Apostles taught the whole Gospel from Pentecost verbally. But the Spirit didn’t record every word they said into their writings. Some of the writers, John for example, expected you to know, or to already have, some of the other writings, like the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke.

So today we do need to sift through all of what was written. Partly, this is to fulfill what the Spirit said when He said, “seeing they do not understand, and hearing they do not comprehend.”

 

[BNR32FAN]

Acts 2:38 says repentance and baptism are required.

Acts 2:38 doesn’t say that brother.

“Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

He told them to repent and be baptized he didn’t say that baptism is required for salvation. The people in Acts 8 followed these instructions and they didn’t receive the Holy Spirit. Peter and John had to come and lay hands on them so that they would receive the Holy Spirit.

 

[d taylor]

No. The Apostles taught the whole Gospel from Pentecost verbally. But the Spirit didn’t record every word they said into their writings. Some of the writers, John for example, expected you to know, or to already have, some of the other writings, like the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke.

So today we do need to sift through all of what was written. Partly, this is to fulfill what the Spirit said when He said, “seeing they do not understand, and hearing they do not comprehend.”

Again i ask for Biblical proof for your crafted salvation plan. Not a, i am sure they did it the way i am saying.

 

[d taylor]

Paul said that the gospel is the power unto salvation. To me that means that a person can be saved by believing the gospel. If baptism was absolutely necessary for salvation then the gospel would not be the power unto salvation because salvation cannot be attained by the gospel itself.

The gospel points to The Messiah who is salvation. Just like the cross, the gospel saves no one, they all point to The Messiah. Or at least they should if taught correctly, if they just stop at the gospel or the cross they fall short .