How can any Christian vote for pro-abortion politicians?

[SANTOSO]

Who is the man who FEARS THE LORD? Him will he instruct in the way that he should choose. -Psalms 25:12

If you are concerned in the way that you should choose when the time come to vote;
whether the politicians pro abortion or against abortion or others; we find out that the Lord give instruction to those who fear Him; then we should be concerned how to understand the fear of the Lord, as spoken in Proverbs 2:1-5.

What we should do, as people of God; we gain insight from how Daniel lived among many rulers in his days. What prayer Daniel had lifted to the Lord, that we may pray, too, that may hope in the land of the living.

I prayed to the LORD my God and made confession, saying, "O Lord, the great and awesome God, WHO KEEPS COVENANT AND STEADFAST LOVE WITH THOSE WHO LOVE HIM AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, -Daniel 9:4
we have sinned and done wrong and acted wickedly and rebelled, turning aside from your commandments and rules. -Daniel 9:5

yet we have not entreated the favor of the LORD our God, TURNING FROM our iniquities and GAINING insight by your truth. -Daniel 9:13

O my God, incline your ear and hear. Open your eyes and see our desolations, and the city that is called by your name. For we do not present our pleas before you because of our righteousness, BUT BECAUSE OF YOUR GREAT MERCY. -Daniel 9:18

O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive. O Lord, pay attention and act. Delay not, for your own sake, O my God, because your city and your people are called by your name." -Daniel 9:19

 

[tturt]

God has a plan for each one including the time and place of our births:
-“And he made from one man every race of men to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted epochs and the fixed boundaries of the places where they would live;” (Acts 17:26)

He formed us:
-“For You formed my innermost parts; You knit me [together] in my mother’s womb” Psa 139:13
-“Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?” Mal 2;10
-“The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.” Job 33:4
"I will put ligaments on you, place muscles on you, and cover you with skin. I will put breath in you, and you will live. Then you will know that I am Yahweh." Eze 37:6

 

[sparow]

Abortion isn't a choice; it's taking an innocent life. Abortion advocates like to fancy themselves as "pro-choice," but such a term is misleading. It wouldn't make sense if I were to say that stealing is wrong, but I would never interfere in other people's right to choose to steal, and therefore conclude that theft shouldn't be a crime.

Many verses in the Bible testify to the fact that there is life in the womb. One such verse is Luke 1:41: "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit."

How can any Christian vote for politicians who support abortion? That goes against God's teaching in the Bible not to murder (Exodus 20:13).

Abortion is not of the kingdom of God, but it is of the other kingdom; should we tell them how to behave in their kingdom. For the Christian who votes for the lessor of evils, there is a lot more at stake than Abortion.

 

[Ananias]

lessor of evils

What evil could be greater than the deliberate murder of helpless babies?

 

[Archivist]

What evil could be greater than the deliberate murder of helpless babies?

If you regard abortion as being murder then by all means do not have one.

 

[RDKirk]

What evil could be greater than the deliberate murder of helpless babies?

John Piper provides an answer to that question.

I remain baffled that so many Christians consider the sins of unrepentant sexual immorality (inappropriate contenteia), unrepentant boastfulness (alazoneia), unrepentant vulgarity (aischrologia), unrepentant factiousness (dichostasiai), and the like, to be only toxic for our nation, while policies that endorse baby-killing, sex-switching, freedom-limiting, and socialistic overreach are viewed as deadly.

The reason I put those Greek words in parentheses is to give a graphic reminder that these are sins mentioned in the New Testament. To be more specific, they are sins that destroy people. They are not just deadly. They are deadly forever. They lead to eternal destruction (2 Thessalonians 1:9).

In fact, I think it is a drastic mistake to think that the deadly influences of a leader come only through his policies and not also through his person.

This is true not only because flagrant boastfulness, vulgarity, immorality, and factiousness are self-incriminating, but also because they are nation-corrupting. They move out from centers of influence to infect whole cultures. The last five years bear vivid witness to this infection at almost every level of society

Where does the wickedness of defending child-killing come from? It comes from hearts of self-absorbed arrogance and boasting (James 4:1–2). It comes from hearts that are insubordinate to God. In other words, it comes from the very character that so many Christian leaders are treating as comparatively innocuous, because they think Roe and SCOTUS and Planned Parenthood are more pivotal, more decisive, battlegrounds.

I think Roe is an evil decision. I think Planned Parenthood is a code name for baby-killing and (historically at least) ethnic cleansing. And I think it is baffling and presumptuous to assume that pro-abortion policies kill more people than a culture-saturating, pro-self pride.

When a leader models self-absorbed, self-exalting boastfulness, he models the most deadly behavior in the world. He points his nation to destruction. Destruction of more kinds than we can imagine.

It is naive to think that a man can be effectively pro-life and manifest consistently the character traits that lead to death — temporal and eternal.

Policies, Persons, and Paths to Ruin: Pondering the Implications of the 2020 Election

 

[Ananias]

When a leader models self-absorbed, self-exalting boastfulness, he models the most deadly behavior in the world. He points his nation to destruction. Destruction of more kinds than we can imagine.

I have to wonder what Piper thinks of, e.g., King David or Cyrus the Great. God can use even wicked men to his own ends. Jesus himself came from the line of David.

Human rulers, being human, are fallen. None are truly righteous or just. Not one. So a Christian is left to choose the ruler to who best advances the aims and ends of Christian teaching, in results and not simply in intentions. Good intentions do not a good ruler make. Results are what matter in civic government -- "good" government is government that advances the good, not one that merely pays lip-service to it.

 

[RDKirk]

I have to wonder what Piper thinks of, e.g., King David or Cyrus the Great. God can use even wicked men to his own ends. Jesus himself came from the line of David.

First: Trump hasn't "paid off" for the Church. The Church is not any more advanced in its mission, which is to "Make disciples," which Piper points out. Making disciples is what the Church in America will be judged for. Everything else is mission creep. As Piper points out, Trump has made "making disciples"in America even more difficult.

Second, Cyrus the Great wasn't wicked. Not only was he a benefactor to the Jews, he was known as a benefactor to all the different peoples of his empire. He was known for not only being successful as an empire builder and recognized for his achievements in human rights and politics. Cyrus created the largest empire the world had known to that point. Cyrus is lauded to this day by all the peoples of the Middle East.

Cyrus is actually the proof of Piper's comments.

 

[Ananias]

Trump hasn't "paid off" for the Church.

Since I didn't bring Trump into the conversation, I'm not sure why you did. I very very much do not want to turn this into a Current Year political shouting match.

 

[RDKirk]

Since I didn't bring Trump into the conversation, I'm not sure why you did. I very very much do not want to turn this into a Current Year political shouting match.

You're diverting around the debate. That's okay...I just want to point out that I see what you're doing.

 

[Ananias]

I just want to point out that I see what you're doing.

Your ESP is impressive. Generally I have to ask people what they're actually thinking.

 

[RDKirk]

Your ESP is impressive. Generally I have to ask people what they're actually thinking.

As I said, I see what you're doing. Your diversion is in what you wrote.

And, obviously, you're still diverting from the discussion.

 

[SPF]

Single issue voters - parties love them. You can guarantee their vote by saying the right words without actually having to do anything. And the people in your party who disagree with the single issue voters position understand what is happening and drive the party to spend time on more "pressing" issues.

If by "single issue voter" we mean that there are certain people that are willing to not vote for a candidate because of a specific view they hold which is contrary to their moral worldview, which of us would not classify ourselves as a single issue voter?

If the perfect candidate came along and believed every single thing you do about how the government ought to work and was just so amazing, but then you found out that in addition to promoting everything you do, you also learned that he believed that all people over 70 were a drain on the economy and was going to push for mandatory euthanasia of all people 70+. Would you still vote for him?

The point is, while I don't (and I don't know of anyone) who votes for a candidate because of 1 sole position they hold, I do know plenty of people (everyone, if we're honest) who might not vote for someone because of a position they hold which truly violates one's conscience and belief system. Why exactly would that be a bad thing? Wouldn't that sort of be like maintaining personal integrity?

If you regard abortion as being murder then by all means do not have one.

Also, if you regard abortion as murder, by all means don't support candidates who favor it.

 

[Archivist]

Also, if you regard abortion as murder, by all means don't support candidates who favor it.

Except abortion is not murder. Joe Biden is pro-choice and I voted for him.

 

[Ananias]

As I said, I see what you're doing. Your diversion is in what you wrote.

And, obviously, you're still diverting from the discussion.

Very well: the reason I don't want to get drawn into a Current Year political debate is because the debate is not about Christianity. None of the candidates on offer are believers. Thus, we can only approach the issue as a "least worst" contest, and in so doing we must fall back on our religious principles to gauge how well our Christian cause is served by voting a certain way.

But murder of infants is a red line for me. I will not vote for any candidate that espouses infanticide, irrespective of any other position they might hold. Sanctioning the murder of infants is an immediate disqualifier. I don't care how many social programs they espouse, how tender they are to the poor and oppressed. Nothing outweighs supporting the murder of innocent unborn children. It is an awful, evil, depraved thing, and any politician that supports it cannot be trusted to be Godly in other respects.

If there is no candidate who can clear that bar, I either write in a vote or don't vote at all. There is no "lesser evil" calculus in this.

 

[Isilwen]

Very well: the reason I don't want to get drawn into a Current Year political debate is because the debate is not about Christianity. None of the candidates on offer are believers. Thus, we can only approach the issue as a "least worst" contest, and in so doing we must fall back on our religious principles to gauge how well our Christian cause is served by voting a certain way.

But murder of infants is a red line for me. I will not vote for any candidate that espouses infanticide, irrespective of any other position they might hold. Sanctioning the murder of infants is an immediate disqualifier. I don't care how many social programs they espouse, how tender they are to the poor and oppressed. Nothing outweighs supporting the murder of innocent unborn children. It is an awful, evil, depraved thing, and any politician that supports it cannot be trusted to be Godly in other respects.

If there is no candidate who can clear that bar, I either write in a vote or don't vote at all. There is no "lesser evil" calculus in this.

To me this sounds like a well, I don't care about the poor, the elderly, the people who need help as long as them babies are saved!

You do know that pro-life means all stages of life, right? That includes, "social programs they espouse, how tender they are to the poor and oppressed." That is what a pro-life person should be. Care about all of those things, not one of those things to the exclusion of the others.

Joe Biden is pro-choice and I voted for him.

I did as well as I am pro-choice too!

 

[SPF]

Except abortion is not murder. Joe Biden is pro-choice and I voted for him.

Sure, according to current American laws, abortion is not considered murder.

But as Christians, we know a few things about the moral worth and value of human beings - namely that all human beings are created in the Image of God and possess inherent moral worth and value.

We also know, thanks to the advancements of science and biology that a new and unique human being comes into existence at fertilization.

Thus, as we don't see any sort of discrimination going on in Scripture about a human's moral worth and value being based on anything related to their age, gender, nationality, location of residence, or intellectual level - but is instead based upon and rooted in being made in the Image of an immutable God. We can safely assert as Christians that the 98.5% of abortions, which are permitted for convenience reasons are immoral.

Sure, if you want to be technical and say that it's not murder based upon current American laws, I won't argue the point. But that doesn't make it morally acceptable, or that God doesn't consider it murder.

So back to the topic, while there aren't many people I know that will vote for a candidate because of a singular issue, it is certainly acceptable, and I daresay all of us would be willing to not vote for a candidate over an issue that we deemed morally important enough.

For many, that morally important enough issue is abortion.

 

[sparow]

What evil could be greater than the deliberate murder of helpless babies?

We are talking about opinions; some late term abortions could constitute murder; legally, a law would be required to say so.

A greater evil is fornication that leads to the bulk of abortions, and these two constitute a single sin.

Biblically, a new born child is the property of the father; if the mother is unwed the the Child is the property of the mother's father; historically, abortion was practiced in Pagan societies, which explains the nature of todays societies.

Placing a value on the life of a unborn child compared to the mother:

Exodus 21:22-24 (NKJV)
22 "If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman's husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
23 But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life,
24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

 

[Justified_By_Christ_Alone]

That's why I don't vote. In Canada even the conservatives won't do anything about the abortion issue. I would only vote for left-leaning policies if they didn't promote the LGBT agenda and pro-choice that comes along with it which is indeed anti-christ. All political parties are corrupt. If I were in the US and the republicans were doing something about the abortion issue (I don't know their platform, I don't think they're doing enough anyway) I would pretty much be forced to vote Republican regardless of all other policies because it is a serious life issue affecting millions of lives... It's a mass genocide on the unborn that not many people seem to care about. But other than that, I am in support for more social assistance policies and improvements on health care. But if that comes along with killing babies then NO THANKS.

 

[Junia]

Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Idle word is equivalent to idle non-vote.

And you plan on laying low because Trumps past offends you - I question what (and their prescribed narrative) are you listening to. And after 60 million babies in the US have been aborted. With Trump's new Supreme Court Justice who will be seated I am convinced we will say goodbye to Roe v Wade (which was illegitimate legislation from the bench). The issues at stake could not be more clear.

As to the deficit spending - I am also not too happy. On the positive side, Trump has made up energy independent and is bring back manufacturing jobs - which will be very important if the value of our dollar sinks due to the deficit.

I am not American but I think I'd vote for neither of them