How can any Christian vote for pro-abortion politicians?

[Ananias]

I suspect a few of them are opposed to abortion, but have other agendas, such as running the country in a way that serves God's purposes as much as possible and if that means compromise on one issue in order to achieve another I don't doubt they would go for it.

So sanctioning the murder of tens of thousands of unborn infants every year is just a "compromise" some people are willing to make in order to gain other political ends?

 

[Ananias]

So sanctioning the murder of tens of thousands of unborn infants every year is just a "compromise" some people are willing to make in order to gain other political ends?

I hate quoting myself, so apologies, but I want to expand my comment a bit.

I've always understood that Christianity teaches us that while we must be in the world, we must not be of the world. That is, regardless of the state of outside culture, Christians keep to God's Word as the only correct way to live a righteous life.

It seems to me that voting in favor of a politician who advocates for abortion, or actually positively affirms it, would place that politician beyond the pale as far as a believing Christian is concerned. What possible stance could a politician have -- on tax policy, military spending, foreign policy, or other social programs -- that could offset such a moral evil?

 

[Archivist]

I hate quoting myself, so apologies, but I want to expand my comment a bit.

I've always understood that Christianity teaches us that while we must be in the world, we must not be of the world. That is, regardless of the state of outside culture, Christians keep to God's Word as the only correct way to live a righteous life.

It seems to me that voting in favor of a politician who advocates for abortion, or actually positively affirms it, would place that politician beyond the pale as far as a believing Christian is concerned. What possible stance could a politician have -- on tax policy, military spending, foreign policy, or other social programs -- that could offset such a moral evil?

First, remember that even as Christians we do not agree on exactly when human life begins. Some say conception, some say quickening, some say first breath. If Scripture clearly said "life begins at..." but it doesn't.

Second, remember that many Christians may be absolutely opposed to abortion for themselves, but do not believe that they should be forcing their views on others. For example, some Christians believe that abortion should be illegal in all cases. Other Christians believe that exceptions should be allowed for rape, incest and the life or health of the pregnant woman.

Third, some Christians look beyond abortion. Is it right to force a pregnant woman to carry a fetus to term but then not provide her with health care and food? Is it right to ban abortions, but allow the execution of criminals for some crimes or send soldiers off to fight wars that often result in the killing of innocent civilians?

If everything was black or white this would be easier. The problem is that most things fall into some shade of grey.

 

[Ananias]

Is it right to force a pregnant woman to carry a fetus to term but then not provide her with health care and food?

Given the hundreds of billions poured into social programs by the US alone, this is a non-issue in the US. I don't even consider it a serious argument. If you're a pregnant woman or single mother, you can easily get free health care and food.

Is it right to ban abortions, but allow the execution of criminals for some crimes or send soldiers off to fight wars that often result in the killing of innocent civilians?

I think there's a moral distinction between murdering helpless infants and judicial killing of adults, yes. The death penalty for certain offenses is affirmed in both the Old Testament and the New. (Paul grants it to the inherent power of civil government even apart from scriptural support, as I read it in Acts 25:10-11.) Nowhere in the scripture is the murder of innocent children acceptable.

Abortion is in no way a "gray" issue for Christians (or at least should not be).

 

[Junia]

It is a tricky one.

Some political parties are rightly against abortion but they may support oppressing the poor by cutting welfare or by refusing to help refugees

All these things are wrong and anti Christ

so how do we vote? If we vote at all?

 

[Junia]

I am not American so won't be voting either way but one thing I do like about Trump is his support for Israel.

I believe the sin that brings God's judgement on a nation is mistreating Israel

 

[RDKirk]

Trump is not racist and not bigoted.

Racists and bigots seem to think he's one of them.

The cloud of evil flying monkeys surrounding Trump is scarier than he is, and arguably more dangerous.

 

[RDKirk]

Someone else has already said this in this thread. I'm paraphrasing and plagiarizing it, but it bears repeating, and I'm going to repeat it in other places:

It has always been assumed that the GOP is the party opposed to abortion, but of course Roe v Wade was passed on their watch and is still in place despite the Reagan, Bush, and Trump administrations. It seems most of Republican Supreme Court and federal court appointments have been for their position on the second amendment and corporation power rather than abortion. There is already a conservative majority in the Supreme Court and yet Roe v Wade and the principle of viability is still in place.

If voting for Trump makes no difference regarding the actual law, if the Supreme Court now has its swing-proof conservative majority (and yet the Democratic administrations hold the record of reducing the abortion body count with sex education) then the abortion issue is no longer a reason to vote for Trump.
Of course the appointment of Barrett might change the dynamic in SCOTUS but if it does why do you still need Trump? Trump was elected by anti-abortion forces to put an ostensibly swing-proof anti-abortion Supreme Court into place.

He's done that.

Trump has been an unmitigated disaster in all other areas of governance. So why vote for Trump now when the health crisis and CV19 combined are causing a higher body bag count than abortion, and Barrett is already in place?

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

I hate quoting myself, so apologies, but I want to expand my comment a bit.

I've always understood that Christianity teaches us that while we must be in the world, we must not be of the world. That is, regardless of the state of outside culture, Christians keep to God's Word as the only correct way to live a righteous life.

It seems to me that voting in favor of a politician who advocates for abortion, or actually positively affirms it, would place that politician beyond the pale as far as a believing Christian is concerned. What possible stance could a politician have -- on tax policy, military spending, foreign policy, or other social programs -- that could offset such a moral evil?

You have the right idea here, but you might better saying, "It seems to me that voting in favor of a politician who advocates for any sin, or actually positively affirms it, would place that politician beyond the pale as far as a believing Christian is concerned."

The issue is all about making one sin greater than another. Yet they are all sinful and voting for any candidate that engages in or encourages sinful practice would be a no-no... except that politicians lie (i.e. sin) all the time.

Abortion is horrible, but there are times when it is necessary. Taking an extreme view on the subject helps no-one. And actually if there was less military spending and better tax policy and other social programs, there would likely be a lower level of abortions anyway.

If you want to prevent abortions, educating and encouraging are far better than enforcing.

 

[Archivist]

Given the hundreds of billions poured into social programs by the US alone, this is a non-issue in the US. I don't even consider it a serious argument. If you're a pregnant woman or single mother, you can easily get free health care and food.

I think there's a moral distinction between murdering helpless infants and judicial killing of adults, yes. The death penalty for certain offenses is affirmed in both the Old Testament and the New. (Paul grants it to the inherent power of civil government even apart from scriptural support, as I read it in Acts 25:10-11.) Nowhere in the scripture is the murder of innocent children acceptable.

Abortion is in no way a "gray" issue for Christians (or at least should not be).

And you are entitled to your opinion and you interpretation of scripture just as other are entitled to their opinion and their interpretation of scripture.

 

[Isilwen]

If you want to prevent abortions, educating and encouraging are far better than enforcing.

A thousand times this ^

 

[Ananias]

If you want to prevent abortions, educating and encouraging are far better than enforcing.

It hasn't worked for thievery, murder, fraud, prostitution, or assault. I'm not sure why you think it would work for abortion.

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

It hasn't worked for thievery, murder, fraud, prostitution, or assault. I'm not sure why you think it would work for abortion.

cynic

 

[Ananias]

cynic

I prefer to use the term "realist", but...*shrug*. Human nature is eternal.

 

[WolfGate]

Single issue voters - parties love them. You can guarantee their vote by saying the right words without actually having to do anything. And the people in your party who disagree with the single issue voters position understand what is happening and drive the party to spend time on more "pressing" issues.

 

[RDKirk]

It hasn't worked for thievery, murder, fraud, prostitution, or assault. I'm not sure why you think it would work for abortion.

I think you have the comparison 180 degrees backward. What "hasn't worked" for thievery, murder, fraud, prostitution, and assault has been the attempt to criminalize them.

People who don't do thievery, murder, fraud, prostitution, and assault are people who are taught better from early age that they should not and needed not do them...not simply because it's been criminalized.

 

[Ananias]

I think you have the comparison 180 degrees backward. What "hasn't worked" for thievery, murder, fraud, prostitution, and assault has been the attempt to criminalize them.

Wait wait wait. I want to make sure I understand you: are you seriously saying that fraud, thievery, assault and murder should not criminalized? (I will leave prostitution to one side for the time being because I actually advocate decriminalization of that; many women are forced into it against their will or through the ravages of substance abuse or mental problems. They need help and love, not jail.)

 

[RDKirk]

Wait wait wait. I want to make sure I understand you: are you seriously saying that fraud, thievery, assault and murder should not criminalized? (I will leave prostitution to one side for the time being because I actually advocate decriminalization of that; many women are forced into it against their will or through the ravages of substance abuse or mental problems. They need help and love, not jail.)

I'm saying that being criminalized has not prevented fraud, thievery, assault and murder. People who don't do fraud, thievery, assault and murder are not dissuaded because of the law, but because they have been taught better.

 

[Ananias]

I'm saying that being criminalized has not prevented fraud, thievery, assault and murder. People who don't do fraud, thievery, assault and murder are not dissuaded because of the law, but because they have been taught better.

OK, fair enough.

Laws (whether religious or civic) on their own do nothing absent an enforcement mechanism. When enforcement is too lenient, the deterrent value of that law is commensurately reduced. (I say this tentatively, because the moment I write the words I begin to think of exceptions to this.) Laws themselves are not the deterrent, but the enforcement mechanism.

As Madison wrote in Federalist 51, "If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary."

 

[SANTOSO]

When you are considering voting for politicians whether pro abortion or non abortion, whether pro war or against war, whether pro national interests or non, or others, CONSIDER THIS :

Thus says the LORD: "Cursed is THE MAN WHO TRUSTS IN MAN and makes flesh his strength, whose heart turns away from the LORD. -Jeremiah 17:5
He is like a shrub in the desert, and shall not see any good come. He shall dwell in the parched places of the wilderness, in an uninhabited salt land. -Jeremiah 17:6

"Blessed is THE MAN WHO TRUSTS IN THE LORD, whose trust is the LORD. -Jeremiah 17:7
He is like a tree planted by water, that sends out its roots by the stream, and does not fear when heat comes, for its leaves remain green, and is not anxious in the year of drought, for it does not cease to bear fruit." -Jeremiah 17:8

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it? -Jeremiah 17:9
"I the LORD search the heart and test the mind, TO GIVE EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO his ways ( man’s ways), according to the fruit of his deeds." -Jeremiah 17:10

Good and upright is the LORD; therefore He ( the Lord ) instructs sinners in the way. -Psalms 25:8
He ( the Lord ) leads the humble in what is right, and teaches the humble His way (the Lord’s way ). -Psalms 25:9