• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

How about a flat tax?

Discussion in 'News & Current Events (Articles Required)' started by IslandBreeze, Jan 10, 2003.

  1. mala

    mala fluffy lion

    +2,165
    Muslim
    Single

    by way of the leprechaun initiative. those guys have pots of gold stashed everywhere! :D
     
  2. cenimo

    cenimo Jesus Had A 12 Man A-Team

    +76
    Christian
    Married
    kern
    In the past proximity to a school was a big plus, especially for parents with grade school or high scholl children. That was then. Sad to say, now, it is not only not a + but in fact a negative, because of gangs, violence at school, etc...
     
  3. Dewjunkie

    Dewjunkie Well-Known Member

    +4
    Christian
    cenimo,

    Should people only pay Social Security tax if they use it? That wouldn't be feasable, because there would never be enough in reserve to cover the checks. What about city or state run homeless shelters? Taxes pay for those, am I being punished because I own a home? Or am I paying to help keep homeless people from freezing to death in an alley? What about state funded medical insurance programs? Am I being punished for having a job that affords me great medical coverage, or am I helping less fortunate people get the medical attention they are entitled to as a citizen?

    If everything was privatized (schools, law enforcement, fire), and you only paid per use, I'd be willing to bet in the end the cost would be far more than the amount taken in taxes from you checks now.

    And as one who can speak from experience, when you NEED a program that is funded by tax money, you'll be glad it's there. When you're past needing it, you'll be a little more happy to help it out, for all of those that need it after you. At least I am.
     
  4. cenimo

    cenimo Jesus Had A 12 Man A-Team

    +76
    Christian
    Married
    Dewjunkie

    Gee, all I commented on was people without children paying the portion of property taxes that go to schools...and no one did reply about a center for childless couples and the uproar that would cause.

    Let's see, some states now tax unempoyment, right? Gee, that makes a lot of sense...

    There's a book called The April Game, by an autjor (ex-gov't investigator) calling himself Dogenes...it covers a lot of this, well worth reading.
     
  5. MyJhongFist

    MyJhongFist Active Member

    534
    +0
    Actually, a flat tax would be more beneficial to everyone.  It is the liberal belief that the wealthy should be punished for success, that keeps the flat tax from being considered as an actual viability.
     
  6. MyJhongFist

    MyJhongFist Active Member

    534
    +0
    I feel inclined to agree with that part of your post, but not all of it.

    Should people only be required to pay for a road if they actually drive?  That wouldn't be fair, now would it?
     
  7. Morat

    Morat Untitled One

    +2
    Atheist
    Notes: Caley stated he felt that no taxes of any sort should be levied, not me.

    Secondly:
    I take it you view it as a coincindence that the flat tax is often pushed hardest by those who would pay nothing in taxes if it were passed.

    Forbes comes to mind.
     
  8. MyJhongFist

    MyJhongFist Active Member

    534
    +0
    If an actual flat tax were passed, everyone would pay the same percentage.  There would be noone who paid 'nothing'.  I don't know whose plan you are looking at.
     
  9. kern

    kern Miserere Nobis

    +7
    Catholic
    We've seen proposals just in this thread for flat tax plans where interest off of investments is not charged tax. Since the very wealthy make virtually all their income from interest, under such a flat tax plan, they would pay next to nothing.

    -Chris
     
  10. MyJhongFist

    MyJhongFist Active Member

    534
    +0
    By your response, I take it that you know alot of very wealthy people and their financial records.  Being in the upper 10 percent of wage earners myself, I know where my income comes from and it's not primarily from investments.

    By the way, a household only needs to earn $ 92,000 a year to be in the upper 10 percent of wage earners.  That means a teacher married to a fire-fighter are considered rich in this economy.  Do those people really deserve to be punished for their success?

    In the actual plan that is on the table now, cutting out tax on investment income would encourage more people from every tax bracket to invest.  If that wouldn't strengthen the economy, what would? 

    Just using logic here. 
     
  11. Morat

    Morat Untitled One

    +2
    Atheist
    Forbes', actually. He wouldn't pay any money under his plan. Neither would Bill Gates, or Cheney (he would on his VP salary, of course).

    Money on the demand side. As has been noted, the problem with the economy is too much capacity for too little demand. Increase capacity without increasing demand would just make it worse.

    Regardless, it would still lead to the richest people in America earning millions of dollars a year and not paying a penny in taxes.

    And somehow it's dubbed "class warfare" to get upset at that idea.
    But not all the facts.
     
  12. MyJhongFist

    MyJhongFist Active Member

    534
    +0
    Actually, "class envy" is the term.  It's pretty accurate.
     
  13. Morat

    Morat Untitled One

    +2
    Atheist
    You're right. I would be really envious if people making millions of dollars a year paid nothing in taxes, where people like myself where chunking in 20% or so.

    The question, I suppose, is why you wouldn't be? I mean, let's face it, it's really unusual to meet someone whose so cheery about paying taxes that'd he rather pay a higher rate so that poor millionaires don't have to pay anything.
     
  14. Yinlowang

    Yinlowang Scientia Est Potentia

    64
    +0
    Agnostic
    Just some info from the IRS Stats page.

    top 1% of returns paid 29% of taxes, yet earned only 15% of income.

    top 10% of returns (average Income $158,000) paid 63% of all taxes.

    top 20% of returns (average Income $120,000) paid 79% of all taxes.

    top 40% of returns paid 94% of all taxes.

    Seems fair to me, not.

    Investment Income under a flat tax would be taxed at the corporate level like it is now. It would just not be taxed again at the individual level.

    The only thing that is taxed now that would not be taxed under the flat tax are Capital Gains, which probably should not be taxed anyway.

    With the first $35,400 of income being exempt, it seems more fair to me. We should not Tax success.

    Of course, I would pay about $6,000 less per year... That may bias my opinion:)
     
  15. Morat

    Morat Untitled One

    +2
    Atheist
    Ahem. Link please. First off, I suspect payroll taxes were not included. When payroll taxes are included, the system is only mildly progressive.

    Secondly, as an IRS page, I know state and local taxes (which are generally fairly regressive) where not included.

    Citizens for Tax Justice (a labor funded group) have stats here.

    To be blunt, income tax looks so progressive because payroll and excise taxes are really regressive. It's deceptive to only look at part of the taxes an individual pays. At the very least, you should use numbers that include payroll taxes, as that's 7% that you only pay on income below 85,000. So please, don't tell me how progressive and unfair the income tax is when you leave out the rest of federal taxes.
     
  16. Yinlowang

    Yinlowang Scientia Est Potentia

    64
    +0
    Agnostic
    OK Morat, using your link, the numbers are just about the same.

    top 1% of returns paid 25.1% of all taxes

    top 10% of returns paid 41.2% of all taxes.

    top 20% of returns paid 67.7% of all taxes.

    top 40% of returns paid 85.6% of all taxes.


    The one change I would love to see in the tax system is totally revenue nuetral. I want to do away with withholding and have everybody have to make quarterly estimated tax payments. Writing that check Every quarter is ALOT more painful than having it come out of your check allmost invisibly 26 times a year.
     
  17. Morat

    Morat Untitled One

    +2
    Atheist
    My link doesn't include payroll or state taxes either. I was sourcing the material you didn't.

    Taxes are 7% higher on anyone on income lower than 85,000 a year, and it doesn't show up on income tax projections. That's from payroll taxes alone.
     
  18. Yinlowang

    Yinlowang Scientia Est Potentia

    64
    +0
    Agnostic
    Yes it does Morat, look again

    From your link, this is just the fed income tax.

    top 1% of returns paid 36% of all taxes

    top 5% of returns paid 56.1% of all taxes.

    top 20% of returns paid 81.7% of all taxes.

    top 40% of returns paid 95.7% of all taxes.

    What I posted before is the far right Col. on the chart titled "Precentage Distribution of Pretax Income & Federal Taxes By Income Group"

     

     
     
Loading...