LDS How a Cult Works

[topher694]

So you don't believe that eternal life is necessary for salvation? That is an interesting concept, but not a very good one. So how about this scripture:
(New Testament | Hebrews 5:8 - 9)

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Now you will will you say that obeying Jesus Christ has nothing to do with keeping the commandments?

What about this:

(New Testament | James 1:19 - 24)

19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

And this:

(New Testament | John 14:12)

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

More deception. To folks reading, note the tactic that has been used several times here.

Take what someone has said and slightly misrepresent it (twist it) to:
A) make it seem like we are in agreement. So "Mormonism isn't bad", you agree with us! or
B) make it seem like you believe something nonsensical to put you on the defensive so, "Mormonism makes more sense than this guy"

It's all deception and manipulation tactics, which, goes to strengthen the premise that this entire thread was created on.

Politicians often use the same tactic. They will name a program they support something that sounds good to everyone, like "The strengthening families initiative". They'll ask you, "you want to strengthen families, don't you?" who wouldn't say yes to that? See, we are in agreement with one another on this legislation. However, what it really is, is a organization that supports and funds abortion. If you research this, and know it, and voice your opposition to the initiative then they can minimize you by saying things like, "It's not very Christian of you to oppose families." Then use it to marginalize anything you say on the matter in the future. This is the exact same tactic that has been used repeatedly here. It's dishonest.

And btw, eternal life comes from salvation. Salvation doesn't come from eternal life.

 

[He is the way]

So what do you do with these set of verses?
Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to Me,‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

These people obviously casually thought they believed in Christ as the used His Name

And this scripture is about those who practice lawlessness.

 

[Jamesone5]

And this scripture is about those who practice lawlessness.

What sculpture?????

 

[He is the way]

More deception. To folks reading, note the tactic that has been used several times here.

Take what someone has said and slightly misrepresent it (twist it) to:
A) make it seem like we are in agreement. So "Mormonism isn't bad", you agree with us! or
B) make it seem like you believe something nonsensical to put you on the defensive so, "Mormonism makes more sense than this guy"

It's all deception and manipulation tactics, which, goes to strengthen the premise that this entire thread was created on.

Politicians often use the same tactic. They will name a program they support something that sounds good to everyone, like "The strengthening families initiative". They'll ask you, "you want to strengthen families, don't you?" who wouldn't say yes to that? See, we are in agreement with one another on this legislation. However, what it really is, is a organization that supports and funds abortion. If you research this, and know it, and voice your opposition to the initiative then they can minimize you by saying things like, "It's not very Christian of you to oppose families." Then use it to marginalize anything you say on the matter in the future. This is the exact same tactic that has been used repeatedly here. It's dishonest.

And btw, eternal life comes from salvation. Salvation doesn't come from eternal life.

The Bible is not twisted, however there those who have been taught to overlook some of the very important scriptures found in the Bible as if they have no meaning. How is salvation possible without eternal life? Certainly those who asked Jesus what they needed to do to have eternal life knew that it was their goal and the way to salvation. There are people that want to believe in the Bible on their own terms and not God's terms. What will their defense be when they come face to face with God?

(New Testament | Romans 6:16)

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[He is the way]

What sculpture?????

23 Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

 

[topher694]

The Bible is not twisted, however there those who have been taught to overlook some of the very important scriptures found in the Bible as if they have no meaning. How is salvation possible without eternal life? Certainly those who asked Jesus what they needed to do to have eternal life knew that it was their goal and the way to salvation. There are people that want to believe in the Bible on their own terms and not God's terms. What will their defense be when they come face to face with God?

(New Testament | Romans 6:16)

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

See! He does it again! Tell me, where did I say the Bible is twisted? I didn't. I said YOU were twisting it and even more twisting the words of others, as you demonstrated here.

How about you actually address your deceptive tactics. Why should anyone listen to you about salvation or obedience or righteousness when you continually practice deception?

 

[Jamesone5]

23 Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Which comes right after these verses which you refuse to address.

Matthew 7:21-22
21 “Not everyone who says to Me,‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’

 

[He is the way]

See! He does it again! Tell me, where did I say the Bible is twisted? I didn't. I said YOU were twisting it and even more twisting the words of others, as you demonstrated here.

How about you actually address your deceptive tactics. Why should anyone listen to you about salvation or obedience or righteousness when you continually practice deception?

You asked: "Tell me, where did I say the Bible is twisted?"

In #122 you said: "More dishonesty, twisting and bait and switch." when I quoted:

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

This scripture is not twisted, false, or of no concern. It is our duty to fear God and keep His commandments. Keeping the commandments of LOVE helps us to become more like God because God is LOVE:
(New Testament | 1 John 4:7 - 8)

7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

(New Testament | Mark 12:33 - 34)

33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

When asked who is my neighbor Jesus told the parable of the good Samaritan then He said:

(New Testament | Luke 10:36 - 37)

36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

Here is another commandment:

(New Testament | Matthew 5:16)

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

 

[He is the way]

Which comes right after these verses which you refuse to address.

Matthew 7:21-22
21 “Not everyone who says to Me,‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’

I suspect they had forgotten the most important thing, to keep the commandments.

 

[BigDaddy4]

What exactly does lawlessness mean to you? It is about those who are a law unto themselves. They do not obey Christ or keep His commandments.

That makes no sense. You are misusing the phrase "a law unto themselves". See Romans 2:13-15 below. Those that "are a law for themselves" can be declared righteous. I don't think you can equate that with "lawlessness".

13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

 

[He is the way]

That makes no sense. You are misusing the phrase "a law unto themselves". See Romans 2:13-15 below. Those that "are a law for themselves" can be declared righteous. I don't think you can equate that with "lawlessness".

13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

I was referring to this scripture:

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 88:35)

35 That which breaketh a law, and abideth not by law, but seeketh to become a law unto itself, and willeth to abide in sin, and altogether abideth in sin, cannot be sanctified by law, neither by mercy, justice, nor judgment. Therefore, they must remain filthy still.

 

[Jamesone5]

Uh, uh--tharis you story.

I suspect they had forgotten the most important thing, to keep the commandments. ---He is the Way

And I suspect this? An Opinion you are relying on?

They used HIs Name only and did many wonders {works} in His Name

21 “Not everyone who says to Me,‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness

 

[topher694]

You asked: "Tell me, where did I say the Bible is twisted?"

In #122 you said: "More dishonesty, twisting and bait and switch." when I quoted:

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

This scripture is not twisted, false, or of no concern. It is our duty to fear God and keep His commandments. Keeping the commandments of LOVE helps us to become more like God because God is LOVE:
(New Testament | 1 John 4:7 - 8)

7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

(New Testament | Mark 12:33 - 34)

33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

When asked who is my neighbor Jesus told the parable of the good Samaritan then He said:

(New Testament | Luke 10:36 - 37)

36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

Here is another commandment:

(New Testament | Matthew 5:16)

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

I really don't think you can help yourself.

Interesting how you left out the first part of what you said in that post. Here let me remind you:

So you don't believe that eternal life is necessary for salvation? That is an interesting concept, but not a very good one. So how about this scripture:

THAT was twisting. I previously said nothing about eternal life as it relates to salvation. You put those words in my mouth and then attempted to use it to marginalize me, "That is an interesting concept, but not a very good one" All the scriptures that follow are just an attempt to deflect and justify the twisting you did previously. Even this response is more of the same, you ignore your bad behavior and hide behind scriptures by claiming that I said the Bible itself is twisted... No, your interactions here are what is twisted.

Every single post you keep proving my point, and the premise of this entire thread.

 

[He is the way]

Uh, uh--tharis you story.

I suspect they had forgotten the most important thing, to keep the commandments. ---He is the Way

And I suspect this? An Opinion you are relying on?

They used HIs Name only and did many wonders {works} in His Name

21 “Not everyone who says to Me,‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness

The practice of lawlessness is akin to disobedience. Jesus is the author of salvation for the obedient, not those who practice lawlessness.

 

[He is the way]

I really don't think you can help yourself.

Interesting how you left out the first part of what you said in that post. Here let me remind you:



THAT was twisting. I previously said nothing about eternal life as it relates to salvation. You put those words in my mouth and then attempted to use it to marginalize me, "That is an interesting concept, but not a very good one" All the scriptures that follow are just an attempt to deflect and justify the twisting you did previously. Even this response is more of the same, you ignore your bad behavior and hide behind scriptures by claiming that I said the Bible itself is twisted... No, your interactions here are what is twisted.

Every single post you keep proving my point, and the premise of this entire thread.

Did you go to post #122? In post #122 I previously said: "Our part is more than just faith:" not: "So you don't believe that eternal life is necessary for salvation? That is an interesting concept, but not a very good one. So how about this scripture:" Try reading post #122 again and look at what you were responding to You have gotten mixed up here.

 

[topher694]

Did you go to post #122? In post #122 I previously said: "Our part is more than just faith:" not: "So you don't believe that eternal life is necessary for salvation? That is an interesting concept, but not a very good one. So how about this scripture:" Try reading post #122 again and look at what you were responding to You have gotten mixed up here.

I followed the response chain by clicking on the up arrow in the reply. That's the post it lead me to. If you were referring to a different one, then you are the one that was confused and replied to the wrong post. Regardless, I did look at 122 and the EXACT same thing applies. You misrepresented my statement, then posted a bunch of scripture to back up your misrepresentation and deflect from your actions. No where in ANY post did I say anything remotely like "The Bible is twisted" that is just inflammatory language over what is clearly just different takes on scripture. It is a dishonest and petty tactic.

 

[Jamesone5]

The practice of lawlessness is akin to disobedience. Jesus is the author of salvation for the obedient, not those who practice lawlessness.

And as God said believe in Him first.

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

As it says it is believe in Him---not just His Name.

And how would you know you have the wrong Christ if you did not see a difference?

 

[He is the way]

I followed the response chain by clicking on the up arrow in the reply. That's the post it lead me to. If you were referring to a different one, then you are the one that was confused and replied to the wrong post. Regardless, I did look at 122 and the EXACT same thing applies. You misrepresented my statement, then posted a bunch of scripture to back up your misrepresentation and deflect from your actions. No where in ANY post did I say anything remotely like "The Bible is twisted" that is just inflammatory language over what is clearly just different takes on scripture. It is a dishonest and petty tactic.

There is only one way to take the scripture I posted:

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

If you have another way to take it please let me know.

 

[He is the way]

And as God said believe in Him first.

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

As it says it is believe in Him---not just His Name.

And how would you know you have the wrong Christ if you did not see a difference?

As the scriptures state, there is a way to know the only true God and Jesus Christ who He sent:

(New Testament | 1 John 4:7 - 8)

7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
(New Testament | John 14:23 - 24)

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I was referring to this scripture:

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 88:35)

35 That which breaketh a law, and abideth not by law, but seeketh to become a law unto itself, and willeth to abide in sin, and altogether abideth in sin, cannot be sanctified by law, neither by mercy, justice, nor judgment. Therefore, they must remain filthy still.

Which is nothing more than gibberish and certainly is not scripture.