House pulls health care vote for second time

[Aldebaran]

Yes, but then the ACA actually got republican votes. The republicans seem to be puzzled as to why democrats didn't vote for their bill, just because they didn't give them any say at all as to what was in it.

Go figure.

Then the democrats (especially Pelosi) should have just decided to pass the bill to find out what was in it. If she thought such a thing was reasonable before, then it was reasonable now as well.

 

[Aldebaran]

So, are we talking a fundamental change in health care or insurance? Lets be clear about what we are discussing.

Technically, we're talking about insurance. People always refer to the issue as being about reforming healthcare, but it's actually an attempt to reform how insurance works.

Then we agree. so why would the ACA be designed to fail if the goal is to insure a bunch of young healthy people to balance out those with pre-existing conditions?

Because that's not the goal. The Dems have already admitted that they expected it to fail and that their ultimate goal was to have a single payer system. But the ACA is designed to fail in that it causes rates to rise so much that fewer and fewer people will be able to afford it. Over the years as prices increase, more people drop out of having insurance coverage and opt to just pay the penalty. As a result, fewer people each year have insurance. Eventually, so few people would be covered that the whole thing collapses. By that time, only a minority of people would still have insurance. That really doesn't measure up to the "Affordable Health Act" name, does it? No wonder people are happier calling it Obamacare. It's anything but affordable.

 

[Aldebaran]

Actually if they don't improve it. It would look bad for the republicans. Since they aren't trying to work to improve it. Also the majority of people in the congress are republicans. So this is no longer just democrat problem.. A few votes to change the title and make it so bad, the even republicans voted against it. Is completely is nothing. They need to do their job and try to improve it.

The Democrats had the majority of the House and Senate during the first 2 years Obama was in office. They didn't get the blame for anything then either. Then when Obama failed to live up to his promises, people blamed the Republicans for "blocking" Obama from accomplishing anything. Now the democrats are doing nothing but voting "no" to common sense healthcare reforms, and they want to blame Republicans when a bill fails. All the Republicans are trying to do is put fairness back into the healthcare system, but the Dems keep standing in the way.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

Now the democrats are doing nothing but voting "no" to common sense healthcare reforms, and they want to blame Republicans when a bill fails. All the Republicans are trying to do is put fairness back into the healthcare system, but the Dems keep standing in the way.

Common sense healthcare reform and putting fairness back into the healthcare system? Well the freedom caucus wouldn't vote on it because it wasn't conservative enough. They wanted to make it so insurance companies weren't required to cover doctor visits, prescription drugs, emergency room visits, maternity care and substance abuse programs and mental health. Yeah, your premiums would certainly go down but if you get sick, hello bankruptcy. Good luck getting any moderate republican to vote yes on that with midterms coming up in 2018. Even if you got that through the house, those changes require 60 votes in the senate where the bill would almost certainly die. They had 7 years to come up with something and utterly failed. Embarrassing.

 

[Belk]

Technically, we're talking about insurance. People always refer to the issue as being about reforming healthcare, but it's actually an attempt to reform how insurance works.

Thank you. That makes sense.

Because that's not the goal. The Dems have already admitted that they expected it to fail and that their ultimate goal was to have a single payer system. But the ACA is designed to fail in that it causes rates to rise so much that fewer and fewer people will be able to afford it. Over the years as prices increase, more people drop out of having insurance coverage and opt to just pay the penalty. As a result, fewer people each year have insurance. Eventually, so few people would be covered that the whole thing collapses. By that time, only a minority of people would still have insurance. That really doesn't measure up to the "Affordable Health Act" name, does it? No wonder people are happier calling it Obamacare. It's anything but affordable.

Then what? They just hope that the democrats are in charge so that they can enact single payer? This scheme as propsed has plot holes in it bigger then a bad sci fi movie. Sorry, but there is no way any rational person thought this up as a way to get to single payer and tried to impliment it. Since the democrats were in charge with enough of a majority to get the ACA through why would they even bother?

 

[Aldebaran]

Common sense healthcare reform and putting fairness back into the healthcare system? Well the freedom caucus wouldn't vote on it because it wasn't conservative enough. They wanted to make it so insurance companies weren't required to cover doctor visits, prescription drugs, emergency room visits, maternity care and substance abuse programs and mental health. Yeah, your premiums would certainly go down but if you get sick, hello bankruptcy. Good luck getting any moderate republican to vote yes on that with midterms coming up in 2018. Even if you got that through the house, those changes require 60 votes in the senate where the bill would almost certainly die. They had 7 years to come up with something and utterly failed. Embarrassing.

If you're required to pay for the coverage whether you can afford it or not, and go bankrupt even if you never use it, what good is that? With the prices already rising to astronomical highs, you'll only have more people each year dropping out (or filing for bankruptcy). Besides, it's called INSURANCE. Insurance is something you purchase and hope you never need to use. That's what normally keeps the price down. But now that insurance is now being referred to as "healthcare" itself, it's expected to be used as a wallet rather than a rainy day fund.

 

[Aldebaran]

Then what? They just hope that the democrats are in charge so that they can enact single payer? This scheme as propsed has plot holes in it bigger then a bad sci fi movie. Sorry, but there is no way any rational person thought this up as a way to get to single payer and tried to impliment it. Since the democrats were in charge with enough of a majority to get the ACA through why would they even bother?

They want it now Democrats Supporting Single Payer Health Care

Just as much as they wanted it from the beginning Nancy Pelosi on Obamacare: ‘I Wanted Single Payer'

Obama himself stated it to be his goal: “My commitment is to make sure we’ve got universal health care for all Americans by the end of my first term as president,” Mr. Obama said at a SEIU health care conference in 2007. “I would hope that we could set up a system that allows those who can’t go through their employers to access a federal system or a state pool of some sort … but I don’t think we’re going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately. There’s going to be potentially some transition process. I can envision a decade out or 15 years out or 20 years out.”
The gradual transition to a single-payer health care system

 

[Belk]

They want it now Democrats Supporting Single Payer Health Care

Just as much as they wanted it from the beginning Nancy Pelosi on Obamacare: ‘I Wanted Single Payer'

Obama himself stated it to be his goal: “My commitment is to make sure we’ve got universal health care for all Americans by the end of my first term as president,” Mr. Obama said at a SEIU health care conference in 2007. “I would hope that we could set up a system that allows those who can’t go through their employers to access a federal system or a state pool of some sort … but I don’t think we’re going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately. There’s going to be potentially some transition process. I can envision a decade out or 15 years out or 20 years out.”
The gradual transition to a single-payer health care system

Yes. a lot of us want single payer. That does not fix the glaring flaws with the plan as you presented it.

 

[JohnHarthover]

Its important to recognize that there are a series of problems associated with each health care system and you have to decide which problems are worse:

1) No insurance, private: problem is that when you are going to die, you have no ability to negotiate for a fair price. Insurance solves that problem.
2) No regulation insurance: problem is that insurers have huge incentives to not cover sick people or people expected to become sick. As a result, they try to find ways to not cover those people. What is the point of health insurance that doesn't cover you when you need it?
3) Regulate insurance companies so they cannot discriminate against pre-existing conditions: People will now only get insurance when they get sick. This leads to a higher cost per person getting coverage for insurance companies, who then must pass it on to consumers.
4) ACA - regulations in (3) plus penalize healthy people that don't get insurance: Now people don't have the freedom to not get insurance
5) Single-payer health care: depends on people keeping their governments accountable

The problem with the Republican plan is that it basically kept the ACA model, while doing a worse job of balancing the cost/benefits of the ACA model. As a result, Republicans that hate the ACA model disliked the plan and those that liked the basic ACA model disliked the plan.

 

[The Barbarian]

What kind of barbaric society has such a goal?

Hey, watch it!

 

[Nithavela]

Hey, watch it!

What kind of barbarian are you, anyway?

 

[The Barbarian]

What kind of barbarian are you, anyway?

Celtic/Teutonic. Welsh/Irish/German

 

[Nithavela]

Celtic/Teutonic. Welsh/Irish/German

What a strange combination. The celts and teutons were at each others throats most of the time.

 

[DaisyDay]

Then the democrats (especially Pelosi) should have just decided to pass the bill to find out what was in it. If she thought such a thing was reasonable before, then it was reasonable now as well.

Exactly WHEN could she have voted on it, eh? It never came to the floor for a vote!

 

[The Barbarian]

What a strange combination. The celts and teutons were at each others throats most of the time.

Sounds like the clan at Thanksgiving. My Uncle Nuggie used to set people off by saying that the Welsh problem was that they made great kings, but lousy subjects, and the English made great subjects but lousy kings... and that was, he said, why the English rose to greatness under the Welsh Tudors.

I've got the high cheekbones and prominent nose so common among the Welsh, but I had red hair as a young man and it was red everywhere else until my late 60s.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

If you're required to pay for the coverage whether you can afford it or not, and go bankrupt even if you never use it, what good is that?

Well the ACA is not perfect, I never claimed it was. More states can expand medicare, medicare for all or add a public option to the ACA (which was thrown out of the original draft with blue dog democrats to blame for it). But we both know the republicans idea of decreasing premiums is just going back to allowing insurance companies to offer bare bone policies.

 

[USincognito]

Anyone else tired of winning yet?

 

[The Barbarian]

I'd be interested in how the MSM is going to avoid reporting how the Democrats stood in the way. Did they vote for this bill?

Republicans said they didn't need the democrats. They removed every amendment offered by democrats. Said they had a big majority, and didn't need to cooperate with democrats. So the democrats sat back munching popcorn as the whole fiasco collapsed in bickering and excuses. Next time, maybe Ryan will have learned from the experience. But I doubt it.

But we won't hear about how they were obstructing anything.

Guess it was a big mistake not bringing them into the process, um?

All we'll hear about is how the Republicans couldn't agree with each other about what should be in the bill.

That's the GOP. Too partisan to compromise, too weak to govern.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Yes, but then the ACA actually got republican votes. The republicans seem to be puzzled as to why democrats didn't vote for their bill, just because they didn't give them any say at all as to what was in it.

Go figure.

The ACA actually got no Republican votes.


S 3590: Affordable Care Act (Obamacare)

HR 3590: Affordable Care Act (Obamacare)

 

[Nithavela]

The ACA actually got no Republican votes.


S 3590: Affordable Care Act (Obamacare)

HR 3590: Affordable Care Act (Obamacare)

It got alternate votes.