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Horned Moses - The Lamb of God?

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by Lulav, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. Lulav

    Lulav Everyone will give an account Staff Member Administrator CF Staff Trainer Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    upload_2019-4-20_15-2-33.png
    It was after Moses went back up again to get the replacement for the ones he broke that this happened.

    Ex 34:1 And the L-RD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which you broke.


    I won't post all the scripture but these are the highlights of what passed between the L-RD and Moses on this trip up the mountain.

    • He was to come up in the morning unto mount Sinai
    • No humans or animals were to be seen upon the mountain
    • Nor were the flocks to be feeding in front of the mountain
    • The L-RD descended and stood with Moses and proclaimed the name of the L-RD saying:The L-RD, The L-RD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
    • Moses then bows down and worships, asking for pardoning for the sins of the people.
    • A covenant is then made between the L-RD and Israel that He would drive out from the land the Amorite, Canaanite, Hittite, Perizzite, Hivite, and the Jebusite.
    • He also tells him to tell the people to NOT make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and to destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves: For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God
    • This is to keep them from going after the foreign gods, and that part ends with:
      Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.This is of course in reference to why Moses broke the first set, the golden calf.

    Then these commandments are listed
    • Keep the feast of Unleavened bread for seven day in the month of Aviv
    • Everything that is first born belongs to the L-RD, male of the cattle. An Ass is to be replaced with a lamb. All firstborn men belong to the L-RD.
    • Six days to work, seventh day rest
    • Observe feast of weeks (counting omer)
    • Shavuot - first fruits of wheat and ingathering (Sukkot)
    • Three times a year appear before the L-RD and he will enlarge their boarder, and have plenty if they do this.
    • Sacrifices not to be offered with leavened bread
    • Passover sacrifice not to be left unto the morning.
    • The first of firstfruits to be brought to the house of the L-RD
    • Do not seeth a kid in mothers milk
    After this he tells Moses to write those words because that is the covenant between Him and Israel.
    Moses was there 40 days and forty nights fasting.


    upload_2019-4-20_15-0-30.png
    Statue by Michelangelo showing Moses with horns

    29 And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him.
    30 And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.
    31 And Moses called unto them; and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned unto him: and Moses talked with them.
    32 And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that the L-RD had spoken with him in mount Sinai.
    33 And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face.
    34 But when Moses went in before the L-RD to speak with him, he took the vail off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded.
    35 And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Could a veil hide rays of light?, how could Moses see?

    The word highlighted above is qaran קָרַן

    And in most bibles it is translated as a verb meaning " to send out rays"

    However an alternate meaning is
    Hiph`il denominative of קֶרֶן

    1a, display (grow) horns (be fully developed), Participle מָּר מַקְרִן מַפְרִיס Psalm 69:32.

    And from Strong's Exhaustive Concordance:
    have horns, shine
    A primitive root; to push or gore; used only as denominative from qeren, to shoot out horns; figuratively, rays -- have horns, shine.​


    Now would the people of Israel who had gone through the plaques and the salvation on the First Passover, through the flood, and brought to the mountain, given food and water be afraid of Moses? Even his brother Aaron?

    "and they were afraid to come nigh him"

    BUT, if he came down with fully emerged horns, now that would be significant.

    In the time he was up there, (40 day) it could have happened.

    upload_2019-4-20_15-46-41.png
    Yes, that is the same ram lamb.
     
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  2. Lulav

    Lulav Everyone will give an account Staff Member Administrator CF Staff Trainer Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Some say that the bible that contains 'horns' was a mistranslation, this translation is in the Latin Vulgate, aka the Catholic Bible, translated by Jerome.

    From HaAretz:

    Why Even Some Jews Once Believed Moses Had Horns
    It is often said that this is a simple matter of mistranslation, but Vulgate author Saint Jerome would not have made such a crude mistake.

    The Latin translation says, that Moses “et ignorabat quod cornuta esset facies sua,” that is,“did not know his face had become horned.”

    But Saint Jerome, who made the translation called the Vulgate at the end of the 4th century, would not have made such a crude mistake. In fact we know he was aware that “karan,” the verb which he translated as “had become horned,” could also mean “had become radiant”; he makes this clear in his commentary on the Book of Amos, written a few years later. This means that Jerome knew that the verse was understood as meaning Moses’ face glowed and was rendered as such in nearly all the ancient Greek and Aramaic translations. Only one Greek translation available to Jerome – that by the Jewish convert Aquila – understood “karan” to mean “had become horned,”
     
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  3. Lulav

    Lulav Everyone will give an account Staff Member Administrator CF Staff Trainer Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    I'm thinking that there is a relationship to be found here.

    Let's look at this first:

    Moses tells the people before he dies, in Deuteronomy 18

    15 The L-RD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; According to all that thou desiredst of the L-RD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the L-RD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. And the L-RD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. ​

    We know that prophet was Yeshua, the Lamb of G-d


    Rev 5:6 Then I saw a Lamb who appeared to have been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which represent the sevenfold Spirit of God sent out into all the earth.

    Consider this:

    Why does the altar that the sacrifices are burnt upon, have horns?
     
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  4. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    Interesting find.. something to ponder.. thanks
     
  5. Grumman Tomcat

    Grumman Tomcat The LORD is my Pilot Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    I was aware that the horns on the sculpture were a result of how the Latin Vulgate was translated.
     
  6. Lulav

    Lulav Everyone will give an account Staff Member Administrator CF Staff Trainer Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Thanks, I thought so to.

    I'm sure there is more but that will be for days to come.

    It's interesting to note that both Rams, even baby ones (year olds) and goats have horns.

    Some interesting facts,
    Separating the Sheep from the goats.

    From Sheep 101

    • Each is a distinct species and genus.
    • Sheep (Ovis aries) have 54 chromosomes
    • Goats (Capra aegagrus hircus) have 60 chromosomes. (6 more than sheep)
    • Goats like to eat the top of plants --- Sheep prefer to graze on grasses and such close to the ground
    • Goats are curious and like to see what's happening, Sheep are more aloof
    • Sheep prefer to stay in flocks, while goats will wander
    • When fighting a ram will put it's head down to ram, a goat will rise up on his hind feet and then but.
    • Sheep need sheering and tending while most goats have short hair
    • Sheep have a divided upper lip, goats do not
    • Sheep horns tend to curl, Goats are more straight.
    Due to their more aggressive behavior, goats will usually dominate sheep, especially if the goats have horns and the sheep are polled (hornless). However, when young bucks and rams are maintained together, rams will dominate because the ram will preemptively strike the buck in the abdomen while the buck is still in the act of rearing up.
     
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  7. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    Which brings to mind, the prophecy of Daniel.
    Daniel 8:1 In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first. And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai. Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last. ...3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.4 I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great....6 And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power. 7 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.....20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.

    But the goat wins.. 5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. ...7 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand. 8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
  8. Lulav

    Lulav Everyone will give an account Staff Member Administrator CF Staff Trainer Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Yes, I thought of that too, I think that was supposed to represent Alexander the Great, however this prophecy could certainly be two fold as most are. Are we looking for another Alexander the Great?
     
  9. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

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    "The first shall be last........"

    upon mention of the 4 curled horns of the first altar of mercy i was reminded of things to come at the second altar of 4 horns. Then at the 4 cups of the menorah "Many blessings.
     
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