Homosexuals and Bisexuals

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Tarpshack

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And although I'm sure this has been said numerous times in numerous different threads regarding homosexuality, but separation of church and state.

Religion is more of a choice then homosexuality is, so why are religious groups allowed so many rights?

Religious groups have so many rights because that was the intent of the founders. That's the meaning of "separation of church and state" as found in Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists.

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

The wall Jefferson referred to was to protect religious freedoms from the government.

To impose morality by legislation or court decision at the national level is not only unconstitutional but also immoral. By doing so, it would diminish the degree of moral responsibility of the people, making us all less able to decently self-govern on moral issues. If we receive all the answers to our moral dilemmas by seeking intervention from Washington, we will become incompetent in decently regulating our own lives. This will lead to both a loss of morals and freedom.
 
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rosenherman

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Yes; ultimately, I feel that it is wrong though forgivable. And taken to the extreem, it becomes yet another reason why the divorce rate in modern society is so rampant.
Where is your source for this belief?
 
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LittleNipper

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What gives you the right to tell someone else that the marriage they enter into is not "a real marriage" -- and to enforce that on them by rule of law? That's a much better question.

Nobody is telling you what you can think a marriage ought to be. On the other hand, you and those who think like you are telling others what you demand it has to be.

My Bible tells me what real marriage is. It should inform all believers of such. What is that "someone else" basing his values of marriage on? His own feelings? That is not good enough. Personal values, feelings, and opinions are a very shaky foundation ---- they change as does fashion.
 
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Mercy Medical

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My Bible tells me what real marriage is. It should inform all believers of such. What is that someone else basing his reality of marriage on? His own feelings? That is not good enough. Personal values, feelings, and opinions are a very shaky foundation ---- they change as does fashion.
And if that's what you believe then you should inform them, but you shouldn't force them to live by your standards because in the end it all comes down to free will which God has granted to all of us.
 
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beechy

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It is called a miracle, and yes, possible.
How is it possible -- in the sense that "anything" is possible with an omnipotent God? If it is possible for a woman to conceive and bear a child without eggs and a womb, it should also be possible for my cat to conceive and bear a litter of bunny rabbits, right? Or for my coffee maker to sprout legs, walk to my bedside and hand me a steaming cup of joe (which would be AWESOME). Or for a lesbian couple to conceive and bear a child together.

Also, this topic has been asked and answered dozens of times. It is about having the capacity to address specific issues that arise between heterosexual couples. One of the multiple reasons it has nothing to do with sterile people is you were supposed to get married beforehand, meaning for most of history there was no way to know until after.
We aren't living in history. We're living now. Do you think the United States should enact and enforce laws making it illegal to have sex before marriage?

Apparently history is also full of heterosexual people remarrying when older, and not having children. That ought to tell you something about the preference people have for healthy and normal relationships and continuing to model the correct coupling, the respect people have for the institution of marriage and the sense in which it fulfills a specific need between men and women, but you use it instead to attempt to legitimize perverse sex practices.
It tells me that older people are less fertile, and/or that couples who marry later in life are less interested in having children.

There is no place for continued breakdown of the normal and healthy model of men and women being held accountable for their relationships with each other, and with their kids.
I think that it is also normal and healthy for two women to be held accountable for their relationships with each other and with their kids.

All of this self destructive behavior is being encouraged specifically to break down the authority inherent in parenthood and pass it over to the state and academic bureaucracies despite the fact that every claim favoring homosexual marriage is demonstrably wrong or at the very least highly questionable, up to and including the accusation that it is as it is because it is a religious institution, given how wide spread it is even in places where religion is actively banned.
Why does gay marriage break down parental authority? Gay parents are legally just as accountable for their children as straight parents are.

The source of this movement is socialist, and it is driven by hate. Those pushing this agenda hate the Christian religion and find in the gay marriage debate an opportunity to permanently stigmatize it.
I disagree.

I am now even being threatened for saying this at all, which to me completes the circle. I came here hoping this site had made some changes since they chose to return to the name "Christian" forums, but I am on the verge of being banned for speaking the truth.
You're being "threatened" by who? CF mods?

There can be no doubt that most of the people posting here in favor of gay marriage, whether they claim membership in a church or not, hate the Christian religion and what it actually teaches. It can be seen in the constant harassment they put Christians through, and in the name calling. And yet, this site harasses and bans people who point out the simple truth, and indeed defends those who do the harassment.
I don't care if people want to be Christians. But I don't think the U.S. should be a Christian theocratic state, do you?

And, because of their unjust rules, nowhere on this site is their staff harassment discussed, and they believe this shields them, but there are plenty of Christians in this world whose lives do not revolve around this web site, and as its fame grows as a place where Heresy is allowed to flourish, I believe God will take action against it. I know I certainly intend to.

Just and decent rules, honesty, and integrity -- these things are not that difficult to support if they are actually what you want.

I don't think every single member of staff is guilty. I have known a person or two who went into staff here hoping to make changes, but they have been defeated by the spirit if this place, and I think it is clear enough why. The ownship is more concerned about the dollars than they are about God's people.
This is a random Internet forum, not a court of law or city hall. I've had lots of posts edited, deleted or reprimanded over the years on CF. I don't always agree with mod decisions either but it sounds like you may be taking this forum a bit too seriously.
 
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Shane Roach

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Religion is more of a choice then homosexuality is, so why are religious groups allowed so many rights?

The false nature of this statement is becoming more evident daily.

"Potential for homosexual response is prevalent and genetic"
Potential for homosexual response is prevalent and...[Biol Psychol. 2008] - PubMed Result

And religious groups are "allowed" so many rights because of the Constitution of the United States of America. Interestingly, there is not a single mention of protected sexual perversions in the Constitution. I say interestingly because it seems sexual perversions of every type seem to be finding judicial activist support all over the place over the past four or five decades. Witness the expanding "rights" concerning inappropriate content, even up to and including kiddy inappropriate content if it is animated, while the right to political free speech is now openly and unapologetically encroached upon in laws concerning non profits, political funding, and on and on.
 
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beechy

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And religious groups are "allowed" so many rights because of the Constitution of the United States of America. Interestingly, there is not a single mention of protected sexual perversions in the Constitution. I say interestingly because it seems sexual perversions of every type seem to be finding judicial activist support all over the place over the past four or five decades. Witness the expanding "rights" concerning inappropriate content, even up to and including kiddy inappropriate content if it is animated, while the right to political free speech is now openly and unapologetically encroached upon in laws concerning non profits, political funding, and on and on.
Do you think the Constitution of the United States of America is right to protect peoples' ability to choose different religions?

Why should the Constitution protect a person's ability to practice, preach, and attempt to convert people to religions which lead people to hell by unapologetically denying that Jesus Christ is our Lord and savior?
 
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sidhe

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...amazing.

Absolutely amazing.

A study which indicates that homosexuality has a genetic component, and is therefore not a choice, being presented as evidence that homosexuality is a choice.

Full abstract:
We investigated the potential to engage in homosexual behavior in 6001 female and 3152 male twins and their siblings finding that 32.8&#37; of the men and 65.4% of the women reported such potential (p<0.001). 91.5% of these men and 98.3% of these women reported no overt homosexual behavior during the preceding 12 months. The potential to engage in homosexual behavior was influenced by genetic effects for both men (37.4%) and women (46.4%) and these overlapped only partly with those for overt homosexual behavior.
 
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Shane Roach

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How is it possible -- in the sense that "anything" is possible with an omnipotent God? If it is possible for a woman to conceive and bear a child without eggs and a womb, it should also be possible for my cat to conceive and bear a litter of bunny rabbits, right? Or for my coffee maker to sprout legs, walk to my bedside and hand me a steaming cup of joe (which would be AWESOME). Or for a lesbian couple to conceive and bear a child together.

Interesting point.

Luke 19:39-40

39 And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.

40 And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.
KJV
Interestingly, there is no record in the Bible of any prophet, nor of Jesus, making any claim that an un-Godly action would be so rewarded.


We aren't living in history. We're living now. Do you think the United States should enact and enforce laws making it illegal to have sex before marriage?

In the past simple social pressure was enough. I think it is likely such pressures would re-assert themselves if our government did not interfere regularly and help inculcate a spirit of sexual immorality in our nation.

I think that it is also normal and healthy for two women to be held accountable for their relationships with each other and with their kids.

This is essentially a lie. We all know it is not normal. We also know they are not having their kids in the sense that normal families do. This repeated statement, oft addressed, demonstrates the willingness of gay activists and their supporters to simply lie to get their way.

Why does gay marriage break down parental authority? Gay parents are legally just as accountable for their children as straight parents are.

Gay parents are not the source of the kids, thus the opposite sex parent in every case needs to be specifically addressed.

I don't care if people want to be Christians. But I don't think the U.S. should be a Christian theocratic state, do you?

The citizens should be allowed to have the government reflect their values, whether they are Christian values or not. That is not theocratic. That is democracy and self government.

This is a random Internet forum, not a court of law or city hall. I've had lots of posts edited, deleted or reprimanded over the years on CF. I don't always agree with mod decisions either but it sounds like you may be taking this forum a bit too seriously.

It is not a "random" internet forum. It has twice now in its history taken on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to further its own organizational ambitions, whatever those might be, and it is utterly inappropriate to do so while openly harassing decent people and encouraging vile behavior and teachings.
 
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Shane Roach

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...amazing.

Absolutely amazing.

A study which indicates that homosexuality has a genetic component, and is therefore not a choice, being presented as evidence that homosexuality is a choice.

Full abstract:

I suggest you read it again. It states that some people with the genetic predisposition do not practice homosexual behavior, and some who do not have the genetic predisposition do, essentially putting the last nail in the coffin of the idea that it is genetically determined.
 
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Philothei

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Christ was not Jesus' last name though. Christos is Greek for the Hebrew word moshiach which we translate into English as messiah. So "Christian Forums" isn't taking the NAME of Jesus, but the TITLE you apply to Jesus.

First off this is not the thread for such discussion ....And secondly Christ is Jesus. According to the Hebrews the Messiah... So what is your point? How this is related to the topic?
 
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Skaloop

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I suggest you read it again. It states that some people with the genetic predisposition do not practice homosexual behavior, and some who do not have the genetic predisposition do, essentially putting the last nail in the coffin of the idea that it is genetically determined.

If that's how you interpret the study, then you don't know what "genetic predisposition" and "genetically determined" mean.
 
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b&wpac4

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First off this is not the thread for such discussion ....And secondly Christ is Jesus. According to the Hebrews the Messiah... So what is your point? How this is related to the topic?

Read the post directly above mine. Is there any reason you have singled out my post to attack when the whole thread is wildly off topic?

Messiah is a title that referred to more than Jesus. I'm sorry if that bothers you, but it's true. Messiah as a title only referred to an anointed person.
 
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Philothei

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Once again, using inappropriate behavior with animals and pedophilia as an example is wrong. Both acts do not pertain to CONSENTING ADULTS. An animal cannot consent to a relationship of that nature, therefore the individual is forcing it into that situation. They aren't even comparable and this is the typical "slippery slope" argument used by religious folks against homosexuality and gay marriage.

And your response really does not address anything that I brough up in my initial post. It's the same fear mongering [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] that religious individuals like to use.

EDIT: Holy LOL at the editting of "naughty phrases."


And who says who are those "consenting adults"? In a few years a minority might decide to change those standards... Just because the minors who are homosexuals might feel "discriminated" for they are minority and decide that they deserve to be included with the rest of the adult population and treated as adults... Since the "majority" cannot "dictate" no more on law making....the sky is the limit..Get my drift here
 
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Philothei

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Read the post directly above mine. Is there any reason you have singled out my post to attack when the whole thread is wildly off topic?

Messiah is a title that referred to more than Jesus. I'm sorry if that bothers you, but it's true. Messiah as a title only referred to an anointed person.

What this has to do with Homosexuality out of curiocity ....
 
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Shane Roach

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If that's how you interpret the study, then you don't know what "genetic predisposition" and "genetically determined" mean.

I have the whole study sitting right here in front of me. I know exactly what they are talking about, but the text itself as posted is self explanatory. They found the potential in men and women wide spread, and yet the behavior itself limited. Of those who exhibit the behavior, not all of them were positive for the genetic potential, meaning there is a non-genetic potential as well.

Abstract
We investigated the potential to engage in homosexual behavior in 6001 female and 3152 male twins and their siblings finding that 32.8&#37; of the
men and 65.4% of the women reported such potential ( p < 0.001). 91.5% of these men and 98.3% of these women reported no overt homosexual
behavior during the preceding 12 months. The potential to engage in homosexual behavior was influenced by genetic effects for both men (37.4%)
and women (46.4%) and these overlapped only partly with those for overt homosexual behavior.
# 2007 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved.
Keywords: Sexual orientation; Homosexuality; Behavior genetics; Genes; Twins
 
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jja1981

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i personal dont approve of it because if you follow the bible which most of us dont i would be a hyprocrite!!!we take things from the bible at our own liking that what makes us sinners!!!!!

so end of the day who is judge like in the bible ''cast the first stone who judges''.
 
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Mercy Medical

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And who says who are those "consenting adults"? In a few years a minority might decide to change those standards... Just because the minors who are homosexuals might feel "discriminated" for they are minority and decide that they deserve to be included with the rest of the adult population and treated as adults... Since the "majority" cannot "dictate" no more on law making....the sky is the limit..Get my drift here
No, I don't get your drift at all because it doesn't make any sense.
 
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