Homosexuality

[Boise_Chief]

I have a daughter that has gone to a liberal arts college and now struggles with teachings and the Churches stance on homosexuality.

I have talked with our pastor several times but am unable to find a line of reasoning that has connected with her.

Obviously scripture is quite clear but our sticking point is that she truely feels that it is not a choice. She has a cousin that has acted gay his whole life. ( 3 years through adulthood)

Any thoughts or help would be appreciated. I just found this forum again after 15 years.

 

[com7fy8]

Our forum rules, to my knowledge, now are that we are not allowed to discuss if homosexuality is wrong. So, below I am only offering some basic Biblical principles which apply to all of us in general. These principles can apply to many things.

We all were born wrong, in sin. We all have been "by nature children of wrath, just as the others." (Ephesians 2:3)

God wants us all to desire and seek what He desires.

So, it is wrong to have a preference or tendency in us, for what is wrong. This goes for all of us; we need to know this so we are telling each other and our children the right thing. We all need how God corrects us so our character is not weak enough to give in to Satanic drives and preferences and ways of reacting > Hebrews 12:4-11.

And God is easily able to change any of us out of our wrong ways and wrong preferences; but Satan's evil spirit is dominating and driving, so we need how God alone is able to turn us "from the power of Satan to God" (in Acts 26:18), so we are not controlled by dominating and dictatorial drives and emotions of Satan's evil spirit (Ephesians 2:2).

We all need this correction, then, so we have "rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:28-30)

 

[Hidden In Him]

I take the position that it is indeed slightly more complicated than some suggest, but still nothing that the power of God cannot overcome.

- Are some born with a physical bent towards homosexuality? I think yes, to some extent. Several decades back there were a group of female Olympic athletes (Russian women) who were injected with inordinate amounts of testosterone. The result was that it showed up in their physical anatomy. Likewise, studies have shown that boys who are injected high doses of estrogen have eventually started developing breasts and other feminine physical characteristics.

The answer: God can HEAL people of their chemical imbalances, even if such things are present from birth. So no one has an excuse before God that they were simply "born this way." Those who truly love God will seek to please Him in all areas of their lives, which requires some to seek out healing for their physical bodies until they receive it.

- Are some more inclined to find the same sex more attractive to them intellectually and/ or emotionally than the opposite sex? I think yes, some. But this is again something that can be healed. Many are conditioned to have a disdain or dislike for the opposite sex because of past life experiences. Likewise, for those who simply have a healthy interest in the same sex, this does not and should not exempt them from having interest in the opposite sex.

The answer: God can HEAL people emotionally from wounds of the past, and He can also give people a greater respect for the mentality of the opposite sex. And these are HEALTHY perspectives to take in life (love and respect for ALL people). They are perspectives the Living God not only encourages others to adopt but enables them to.

- Some also argue that there is nothing immoral about homosexual practices.

The answer: Those who believe Scripture believe in the presence of demonic spirits, and unclean spirits (or simply "uncleanness" as you will often see in the Biblical texts) is mentioned almost invariably in the context of sexual immorality. The point here is that it may be morally acceptable to the world, but in the eyes of God it is a detestable thing because of the wicked and lustful spirits that people entertain when engaging in homosexual acts.

 

[HereIStand]

Try Robert Gagnon's material. He's an authority on the topic, and he defends the traditional Christian belief. Also, try the articles on the topic in First Things.

 

[CrystalDragon]

I have a daughter that has gone to a liberal arts college and now struggles with teachings and the Churches stance on homosexuality.

I have talked with our pastor several times but am unable to find a line of reasoning that has connected with her.

Obviously scripture is quite clear but our sticking point is that she truely feels that it is not a choice. She has a cousin that has acted gay his whole life. ( 3 years through adulthood)

Any thoughts or help would be appreciated. I just found this forum again after 15 years.

Only homosexual acts are condemned in Scripture. There's nothing about attraction. Those in Biblical times didn't know as much as we do now.

 

[salt-n-light]

I have a daughter that has gone to a liberal arts college and now struggles with teachings and the Churches stance on homosexuality.

I have talked with our pastor several times but am unable to find a line of reasoning that has connected with her.

Obviously scripture is quite clear but our sticking point is that she truely feels that it is not a choice. She has a cousin that has acted gay his whole life. ( 3 years through adulthood)

Any thoughts or help would be appreciated. I just found this forum again after 15 years.

It kinda sounds like an intervention, as if you're prescribing a medicine for a particular disease. But have you tried having it be a conversation? We know that it's true from a personal conviction of the Word, but we can't force others to have their own conviction about it. They have to come to the truth for themselves and pray them through it. You have to treat it almost as if a lost person came up to you for directions.

If you haven't, try to have an understanding of how she came to her conclusion, what about God's stance that she feels conflicted about, let her talk out her views and feelings where it's easiest for her to talk to you. And listen to her. A lot of time we get stuck at the byproducts and symptom of things, like homosexuality, that we're not patient enough to address the heart of matters. So be patient with her, allowed her to be open to you about it, and guide her through the bible, God's love and plan for everyone, the complexities of the soul, of the body, of the spirit, the dangers, the blessings, break it down for her, with grace and love. Respect if there's still disagreement, and acknowledge when you're on the same page.

And then pray about it. If she wants to talk about it again, let her, be open to guide her through it.

 

[SkyWriting]

I have a daughter that has gone to a liberal arts college and now struggles with teachings and the Churches stance on homosexuality.

I have talked with our pastor several times but am unable to find a line of reasoning that has connected with her.

Obviously scripture is quite clear but our sticking point is that she truely feels that it is not a choice. She has a cousin that has acted gay his whole life. ( 3 years through adulthood)

Any thoughts or help would be appreciated. I just found this forum again after 15 years.

Treat gay people exactly as you would wish Gay people to treat you.
Treat gay issues on sexuality just exactly as you would have Gay people
discuss sexuality issues with you and your interests.

Perhaps some of your neighbors are gay?
What Does the Bible Say About Neighbors? - OpenBible.info

 

[Monk Brendan]

- Are some more inclined to find the same sex more attractive to them intellectually and/ or emotionally than the opposite sex? I think yes, some. But this is again something that can be healed. Many are conditioned to have a disdain or dislike for the opposite sex because of past life experiences. Likewise, for those who simply have a healthy interest in the same sex, this does not and should not exempt them from having interest in the opposite sex.

Forgive me, but from family experience, I can say that there are people who--through no fault of their own or their family--just KNOW that they are homosexual, and there is no amount of healing, no amount of prayer, no amount of counseling that can change that knowledge. Some choose to suppress that knowledge, go on to marry, and then end up divorced years later.

Some choose to suppress that, and live a celibate life, torn by wanting something that the world says is wrong, and hating themselves. Some of those can hold themselves together until they have a breakdown. Others commit suicide.

Finally, there are some that accept that challenge, embrace it, make it part of themselves, and live life as morally as they can.

I have seen all three at work. Don't ask me to say which is best.

 

[SPF]

I have talked with our pastor several times but am unable to find a line of reasoning that has connected with her.

As a parent, I'm sure you can relate to this. I have three boys, each of them are very different and unique. Each of them have different struggles. My middle child for instance, I knew from a very young age was going to struggle with honesty. My oldest child does not struggle with telling the truth, but my middle child does.

I think part of the fall is that each of us will have different struggles, and different tendencies towards sin. For people who are not Christians, of course it being homosexual feels natural - why wouldn't it? Of course it feels like they've always been that way, why wouldn't it? But that doesn't make it morally acceptable.

My middle child is simply a natural hider and a good liar. Does that make it morally ok for him to lie since it comes so naturally to him? I don't think so.

The problem with homosexuality is that God created us as relational beings, so we're dealing with something that's at the core of who we are and how we interact and relate with other people. Marriage and a sex is frankly the greatest gift that God has given us. But it can also cause the most destruction and damage in our lives when abused. Homosexual relationships speak to the core of how we relate, so it is a very difficult thing for people to accept that something that feels so basic to them is actually wrong.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Some choose to suppress that, and live a celibate life, torn by wanting something that the world says is wrong, and hating themselves. Some of those can hold themselves together until they have a breakdown.

I never advocate hating oneself. I'm not very much for ever advocating suppression of the self either.
What I believe in is the replacement of fleshly and soulish desires with spiritual ones (1 Corinthians 7:29-31), and that for those who invest themselves entirely in the things of God, sexual and soulish desires can eventually become largely irrelevant. But I believe that for those He gives the gift of sexuality and the need for marriage (1 Corinthians 7:7), He provides a proper and scriptural means for its expression.

 

[Boise_Chief]

Thank you all for your replies. I will spend some time tonight contemplating each and praying about them.

As an lcms lutheran her concern is more with communion in regards to gay christians. A gay member wouldn't be served at the rail if they are living that life.

My explaination to her is that they would be showing unrepentant public sin. Much like if we had a member that was abusing their family member, or an alcoholic that shows up on sunday drunk. (This one has happened and wasn't a pleasant convo)

While we all know that we are sinners and all sin is equally horrible, if you visibly are sinning the elders and pastor need to keep that person from taking the sacraments. We certainly don't want them taking them as a judgement on themselves.

We should all remember gay christians in our prayers continually. There is no bigger cross to bear than to be a gay christian in my opinion.

 

[Monk Brendan]

DP

 

[Monk Brendan]

Several decades back there were a group of female Olympic athletes (Russian women) who were injected with inordinate amounts of testosterone. The result was that it showed up in their physical anatomy. Likewise, studies have shown that boys who are injected high doses of estrogen have eventually started developing breasts and other feminine physical characteristics.

Excuse me, but that is not correct. The Russian athletes were given testosterone to improve their strength and stamina. It had nothing to do with sex.

The same is true about men being given estrogen. They end up with enlarged breasts, and ED. Their sexual desire ends, but this has nothing to do with gay or straight.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Excuse me, but that is not correct. The Russian athletes were given testosterone to improve their strength and stamina. It had nothing to do with sex.

The same is true about men being given estrogen. They end up with enlarged breasts, and ED. Their sexual desire ends, but this has nothing to do with gay or straight.

Monk Brendan, can you at least try. My point there was simply that changes in anatomy can affect a person's perception about their sexual identity.

I despise going around and around with brothers, especially at a grinding pace. So you'll have to forgive me if I bow out on this one. Believing we'll share better conversations in the future; ones where we're more in agreement.

Blessings in Christ Jesus our Lord,
HiH