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Homosexuality, abortion, contraception, euthanasia, and refusing health care

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by HisdaughterJen, Feb 10, 2009.

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  1. HisdaughterJen

    HisdaughterJen Well-Known Member

    +411
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    Apparently, SOMEBODY thinks humans should be eliminated. And after Nancy Pelosi tried to slip contraception/abortion into the stimulus package to reduce the number of people that the government would have to support, along comes this:

    It seems that they just passed an incredible population control measure in the stimulus bill. When I heard about it, at first I could not believe what I was reading...and then horrible grief. :cry:

    They have hidden a measure in the stimulus bill where they are going to put everyone's medical records in an electronic database, create a governmental bureaucratic oversight commission, and force the medical profession (under threat of sanctions) to allow the government to decide who lives and who dies.

    Apparently, this is happening in Europe, Canada, Australia and now here.

    If this isn't the beginning of the beast's control measures, I don't know what is.

    CALL your representatives/senators!

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aLzfDxfbwhzs

    "Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan: Betsy McCaughey

    Commentary by Betsy McCaughey

    Feb. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Republican Senators are questioning whether President Barack Obama’s stimulus bill contains the right mix of tax breaks and cash infusions to jump-start the economy.
    Tragically, no one from either party is objecting to the health provisions slipped in without discussion. These provisions reflect the handiwork of Tom Daschle, until recently the nominee to head the Health and Human Services Department.
    Senators should read these provisions and vote against them because they are dangerous to your health. (Page numbers refer to H.R. 1 EH, pdf version).
    The bill’s health rules will affect “every individual in the United States” (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial. It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.
    But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.”
    Keeping doctors informed of the newest medical findings is important, but enforcing uniformity goes too far.
    New Penalties
    Hospitals and doctors that are not “meaningful users” of the new system will face penalties. “Meaningful user” isn’t defined in the bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to impose “more stringent measures of meaningful use over time” (511, 518, 540-541)
    What penalties will deter your doctor from going beyond the electronically delivered protocols when your condition is atypical or you need an experimental treatment? The vagueness is intentional. In his book, Daschle proposed an appointed body with vast powers to make the “tough” decisions elected politicians won’t make.
    The stimulus bill does that, and calls it the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research (190-192). The goal, Daschle’s book explained, is to slow the development and use of new medications and technologies because they are driving up costs. He praises Europeans for being more willing to accept “hopeless diagnoses” and “forgo experimental treatments,” and he chastises Americans for expecting too much from the health-care system.
    Elderly Hardest Hit
    Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.
    Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council (464).
    The Federal Council is modeled after a U.K. board discussed in Daschle’s book. This board approves or rejects treatments using a formula that divides the cost of the treatment by the number of years the patient is likely to benefit. Treatments for younger patients are more often approved than treatments for diseases that affect the elderly, such as osteoporosis.
    In 2006, a U.K. health board decreed that elderly patients with macular degeneration had to wait until they went blind in one eye before they could get a costly new drug to save the other eye. It took almost three years of public protests before the board reversed its decision.
    Hidden Provisions
    If the Obama administration’s economic stimulus bill passes the Senate in its current form, seniors in the U.S. will face similar rationing. Defenders of the system say that individuals benefit in younger years and sacrifice later.
    The stimulus bill will affect every part of health care, from medical and nursing education, to how patients are treated and how much hospitals get paid. The bill allocates more funding for this bureaucracy than for the Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force combined (90-92, 174-177, 181).
    Hiding health legislation in a stimulus bill is intentional. Daschle supported the Clinton administration’s health-care overhaul in 1994, and attributed its failure to debate and delay. A year ago, Daschle wrote that the next president should act quickly before critics mount an opposition. “If that means attaching a health-care plan to the federal budget, so be it,” he said. “The issue is too important to be stalled by Senate protocol.”
    More Scrutiny Needed
    On Friday, President Obama called it “inexcusable and irresponsible” for senators to delay passing the stimulus bill. In truth, this bill needs more scrutiny.
    The health-care industry is the largest employer in the U.S. It produces almost 17 percent of the nation’s gross domestic product. Yet the bill treats health care the way European governments do: as a cost problem instead of a growth industry. Imagine limiting growth and innovation in the electronics or auto industry during this downturn. This stimulus is dangerous to your health and the economy. "
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2009
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  2. HisdaughterJen

    HisdaughterJen Well-Known Member

    +411
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    "The March to Socialized Medicine Starts in Obama's Porkulus Bill
    February 9, 2009
    Rush


    Part of a transcript:

    ...

    CALLER: -- what does somebody like me, I'm a nurse, you know, I work in health care, I make a relatively decent living, but how do you get to the point to find out exactly what's in the bill? I can't find it out. I can't get through my congressman, I can't get through my senators, they won't give me any information. To me, it boggles my mind that these people in Indiana, I feel like it's like a cult. Nobody asks the hard questions.

    RUSH: All right, I'll tell you what you need to do. You go to my website: RushLimbaugh.com.

    CALLER: Uh-huh?

    RUSH: We're going to link to this story this afternoon because it's -- you're a nurse.

    CALLER: I'm a nurse.

    RUSH: You won't believe the health provisions in this bill.

    CALLER: Oh, yeah, I do.

    RUSH: I don't think you do.

    CALLER: I do. We're going to lose millions, millions.

    RUSH: Betsy McCaughey has written a column at Bloomberg detailing some of the most onerous provisions in this stimulus bill on health care, and there's a new bureaucracy created, the national coordinator of health information technology -- now, listen to this -- the national coordinator of health information technology will monitor treatments that your doctor gives you to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective.

    CALLER: Rush.

    RUSH: Wait a minute. The goal is to reduce costs and guide your doctor's decisions. Page 442 and 446 of the stimulus bill.

    CALLER: But, Rush, wait. I have a comment.

    RUSH: Yeah?

    CALLER: What about all these people that come in, right off the boat, right off the plane, to the hospital, and they get millions of dollars of care? It happens every day where I work, every day.

    RUSH: It will continue.

    CALLER: But I can't get a tooth fixed.

    RUSH: You can, but it's going to be a laborious process. Look, I've gotta take a break here, but I want to give you some of the other details of the bill. I'm dead serious about the health requirements the bureaucracy set up in this so-called stimulus bill.

    Be back in a minute.


    BREAK TRANSCRIPT

    RUSH: Everybody assumes that the Obama administration's health plan -- the health reform, the gigantic national socialization of medicine bill -- is going to be a standalone to come down the pike, and everybody's especially thinking now it's been delayed since the Puffster pulled himself out of consideration at Health and Human Services for not paying taxes. That is not true. Betsy McCaughey has read the relevant portions of the stimulus bill. She's written about it in a commentary at Bloomberg.com, which we will link to at RushLimbaugh.com later this afternoon. By the way, for those of you who are like the lady that last called, who want to know where she could go to find out what's in this, we got a pretty good list from National Review that we boxed at the website last week (we'll put it in again today) of all of the pork, or the highlights of the pork in this bill. Why do you want to waste time going to a bunch of different websites? As some of my good buddies say, "We've coagulated it here all on one website." (laughing) We coagulated it out there. (laughing) Coagulated! You'll be able to see it all at one place at RushLimbaugh.com.

    I want to go through what Betsy McCaughey has discovered. We had a nurse on the phone mere moments ago. She wanted to know where she could go to figure out what all's in it, which is why I again remind you of RushLimbaugh.com. But the stimulus bill, the job-creation bill (so improperly named) creates a "new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology... Now, this new bureaucracy will monitor newly digitized medical records. There are rules-for-health care coverage in this bill, and they will affect every individual in the United States. You can consult if you want to go try to find a PDF copy of the bill you can find the references are on page 445, 454, and 479."

    Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Now, there are arguments back and forth about whether or not this is a good thing. The opportunity for the loss of privacy is huge here by digitizing and making everybody's health care records computerized, especially having a major federal database where everybody's health records are. Some people say this is a good thing because it will assist in treatment, particularly in emergencies. When you go in for an emergency, if they can get your records... Let's say you're out of town. Say you're vacationing in Alaska hunting moose and an accident happens up there, but you live in New Jersey. Doctors in Alaska will be able to consult the federal database to find out what your allergies are, what your treatments have been, what mistakes not to make on you.

    That's what they used to sell this, but (laughs) ask Alex Rodriguez about privacy. There are 104 names on this list from 2003 of people who tested positive for steroids in a year it was legal. Only his name gets released of the 104. The players union was supposed to destroy the list, and they didn't. They had a reason for it, but they botched their philosophy. Their theory got confounded. So somebody who's got it in for Alex Rodriguez released his name to Sports Illustrated, four or five different people, and so now he's been tarnished with the steroids thing just as a lot of other players -- Barry Bonds and others -- have. This notion that privacy can exist particularly in a politicized Washington is a bit of a... I'm doubtful about it, but there are some people who like the idea. Anyway, this bill computerizes everybody's health records. Then after everybody's health records are computerized, this new bureaucracy is created, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology.

    And he'll have a whole bureaucracy at his disposal that "will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective." You know, right now a lot of you get all upset at your insurance company because they say, "Well, certain things will be covered and others won't," and you want it to be left up to the doctor. Try the government being in charge of what the doctor can do, the kind of treatments that can be extended to you -- and I'll tell you who gets creamed in this, is the elderly. The elderly get really shafted in this, and I'll explain why here in just a minute. Now, "The goal [of the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology] is to reduce costs and 'guide' your doctor's decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, 'Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.' According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and 'learn to operate less like solo practitioners.'"

    Doctors have to join the federal community here in dolling out treatment so that it's fair and equitable. "Keeping doctors informed of the newest medical findings is important, but enforcing uniformity," Betsy McCaughey writes, "goes too far. Hospitals and doctors that are not 'meaningful users' of the new system will face penalties. 'Meaningful user' isn't defined in the bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to impose 'more stringent measures of meaningful use over time' (511, 518, 540-541). What penalties will deter your doctor from going beyond the electronically delivered protocols when your condition is atypical or you need an experimental treatment? The vagueness is intentional. In his book, Daschle proposed an appointed body with vast powers to make the 'tough' decisions elected politicians won't make. The stimulus bill does that, and calls it the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research (190-192). The goal, Daschle's book explained, is to slow the development and use of new medications and technologies because they are driving up costs.

    "He praises Europeans for being more willing to accept 'hopeless diagnoses' and 'forgo experimental treatments,' and he chastises Americans for expecting too much from the health-care system." Now, the page numbers that I'm giving you here refer to the PDF inversion of HR1EH, the stimulus bill, not Daschle's book but the actual stimulus bill. Betsy McCaughey just read it and she's reporting what's in it. So Daschle says we need to become more like Europe. People need to accept catastrophic diagnosis and forget it. If you're told it's over, it's over. We can't keep spending money on people who want experimental treatments! We just can't do this. Now, "Daschle says health-care reform 'will not be pain free.' Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt." You read that right.

    Daschle says senior citizens "should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age," instead of trying to have them treated. "Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost-effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council (464). The Federal Council is modeled after a UK board discussed in Daschle's book. This board approves or rejects treatments using a formula that divides the cost of the treatment by the number of years the patient is likely to benefit. Treatments for younger patients are more often approved than treatments for diseases that affect the elderly, such as osteoporosis." For example: "In 2006, a UK health board decreed that elderly patients with macular degeneration had to wait until they went blind in one eye before they could get a costly new drug to save the other eye.

    "It took almost three years of public protests before the board reversed its decision. If the Obama administration's economic stimulus bill passes the Senate in its current form, seniors in the US will face similar rationing. Defenders of the system say that individuals benefit in younger years and sacrifice later." Let me translate this for you. You are a seasoned citizen. You come down with a disease that is not immediately life-threatening. You go into your doctor. The doctor consults the federal database to get your health care records. He then has to consult this new health council board. They then figure the cost of treating whatever's wrong with you, based on the statistics that tell 'em how long you're going to live -- and if the cost vastly outweighs the number of years you're going to live, they will deny you treatment.

    That's what Daschle says: you just need to become accepting. Seniors need to become accepting of their condition. Basically, you need to just go away and die. We don't have the money. I'll tell you the architect for this. I mean, she credits Daschle, but who was that governor in Colorado? It was Richard Lamm of Colorado: Old people have "a duty to die." Get out of the way because they're putting too much pressure on the health care system. Younger people, they'll get the treatment because it will be more cost effective. The statistics say they'll live longer. Now, the reason that I'm harping on this... We got the call from the nurse. I wanted to tell her what was in this bill to reflect... This is in the stimulus bill. This is national health care, essentially. It is in the "stimulus bill," and they snuck it in.

    Daschle advised Obama, "Stick it in here because the way the Clintons tried it failed. They went big. They went all in. It allowed for people to oppose it and tear it apart. Do it stealthily. Do it where nobody knows it's happening," like the amnesty bill was tried. There are so many things like this in the stimulus bill that have nothing to do with stimulus but have everything to do with advancing the liberal agenda and strengthening and repairing the Democrat Party.

    Now, the Democrats, every campaign cycle, love to run around and accuse the Republicans of wanting to deny senior citizens Social Security, maybe kick 'em out of their houses or what have you. It is the Democrat apart which is essentially, in the stimulus bill, setting up procedures whereby the older you are, the more likely you are to have treatment denied simply because it isn't gonna be worth the money.

    ...

    END TRANSCRIPT "

    http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/dai...111.guest.html
     
  3. HisdaughterJen

    HisdaughterJen Well-Known Member

    +411
    Christian
    Private
    Does anyone doubt the agenda that has been written in stone for decades?

    http://www.radioliberty.com/stones.htm


    THE MESSAGE OF THE GEORGIA GUIDESTONES
    1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.
    2. Guide reproduction wisely - improving fitness and diversity.
    3. Unite humanity with a living new language.
    4. Rule passion - faith - tradition - and all things with tempered reason.
    5. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.
    6. Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.
    7. Avoid petty laws and useless officials.
    8. Balance personal rights with social duties.
    9. Prize truth - beauty - love - seeking harmony with the infinite.
    10.Be not a cancer on the earth - Leave room for nature - Leave room for nature.
    Limiting the population of the earth to 500 million will require the extermination of nine-tenths of the world's people. The American Stonehenge's reference to establishing a world court foreshadows the current move to create an International Criminal Court and a world government. The Guidestones' emphasis on preserving nature anticipates the environmental movement of the 1990s, and the reference to "seeking harmony with the infinite" reflects the current effort to replace Judeo-Christian beliefs with a new spirituality.
    The message of the American Stonehenge also foreshadowed the current drive for Sustainable Development. Any time you hear the phrase "Sustainable Development" used, you should substitute the term "socialism" to be able to understand what is intended. Later in this syllabus you will read the full text of the Earth Charter which was compiled under the direction of Mikhail Gorbachev and Maurice Strong. In that document you will find an emphasis on the same basic issues: control of reproduction, world governance, the importance of nature and the environment, and a new spirituality. The similarity between the ideas engraved on the Georgia Guidestones and those espoused in the Earth Charter reflect the common origins of both.
    Yoko Ono, the widow of John Lennon, was recently quoted as referring to the American Stonehenge, saying:
    "I want people to know about the stones ... We're headed toward a world where we might blow ourselves up and maybe the globe will not exist ... it's a nice time to reaffirm ourselves, knowing all the beautiful things that are in this country and the Georgia Stones symbolize that. " (1)
    What is the true significance of the American Stonehenge, and why is its covert message important? Because it confirms the fact that there was a covert group intent on (1) Dramatically reducing the population of the world.
    (2) Promoting environmentalism.
    (3) Establishing a world government.
    (4) Promoting a new spirituality.
     
  4. Big Mouth Nana

    Big Mouth Nana Post Tribulationist

    +166
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    Rush Limbaugh is a raving lunitic!! The man also had/has an addiction to pain meds that he got into some trouble over. A few weeks ago when Rush was making the news more then the new Prez regarding him being the possible new Republican candidate, I thought, good grief people, get a real life!!!!! This mans mouth overrides his brain.
    http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/10/10/rush.limbaugh/
     
  5. Giantsbran1227

    Giantsbran1227 The Sinner.

    757
    +45
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    US-Republican
    Scary stuff indeed.....
     
  6. Ephesian

    Ephesian Member

    96
    +2
    Non-Denom
    Rush may be a raving lunatic (personally, that's what I find so entertaining), but he is commenting on an article from Bloomberg.com written by Betsy McCaughey and the implications are mind boggling.

    The NWO folks no longer care if their agenda is out in the open or not and they have found willing partners in the current administration. Four years from now, this country will be unrecognizable. We are heading into Earth's final days with breakneck speed.
     
  7. Giantsbran1227

    Giantsbran1227 The Sinner.

    757
    +45
    Eastern Orthodox
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    There have been cases of so called "groups" like this that have been planning to "take over the world" for centuries. There are WAY to many opposed to this radical NWO for it to come into effect.

    The end times were also when Hitler took power, when Castro took power, during the bubonic plague, etc. Guys we DO NOT KNOW, as Christ has made apparent through many instances in history. While YES we can say that this country is headed for a new direction and it may not be good, to say without certainty that these are the end times is unaccurate. Christ ONLY knows.
     
  8. gracechick

    gracechick Senior Veteran

    +219
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    Jen this makes me want to puke if I may be frank. Funny how they will be able to find the right healthcare treatment for their elderly parents or ill children. Let them die as long as we live is their creed. You are optional if you arn't their bloodline.

    When I read about immigrants receiving care while our own legal citizens are ill and dying I could only think of that poor child that died of an absessed tooth. I know everyone needs care, but they don't care. Our world is overpopulated and we are living a huge carbon footprint. WELL here is an idea why don't they live like the rest of us and greatly reduce THEIR carbon footprint.

    I have alot of family in medicine and I don't believe they realise what is going on! One of them is into homeopathic treatment when all possible and she hadn't heard of the bill that went into effect that will make it impossible to receive herbals without a drs. perscription. Now with this bill thrown in the mix what dr is going to write a perscription for herbals when there are huge penalities involved.
     
  9. 4hurting

    4hurting Member

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    Welcome to the end times.

    Remember Bible history repeats itself.
    What happened first time Yeshua came, Israel under occupation from Romans, felt oppressed and so on.

    Today, including UK, becoming very Anti-Christian.
    This is to please the so called other faiths.

    They tried to, think they have in a crime bill, having once failed cause they sent Tony Blair home, thinking they had enough, introduce the Religious hatred bill.

    Again on the surface, fine to secular people.
    But dig a little deeper.

    Rowan Atkinson was against it, cause worried be in trouble if he used faith in any jokes and gags.
    Funny we take that, make fun of Jesus, worst you get is complaint like Jerry Springer.
    Do it of Mohammed and watch the riots, fists fly, not by all, but many.

    What would happen, tell us uncle Lee in the Religious hatred clause.

    Let's say I ran a Christian guest house and therefore, being a Christian, following the Bible, best I can, abide morally, to certain things.
    That being that God does not want the practicing of homosexual behaviour.

    What's this I see, two women have turned up, want a room, now I can not lie, try not to, so will not say they are all taken for, but refuse them on the grounds they want a double bed, make it obvious they are lesbians and might be having, you know, relations in that one room, double bed.

    Surely my right to refuse who I darn well like.
    Wrong.
    They go to police, or lawyers and bang, I'm in court, facing changers.

    Only the tip of the iceberg.
    One more, so called well meaning secular mp's vote something in to protect, but actually causes more trouble than enough.
    Same for Muslims, against it as well, they too could be in trouble, think they objected for once, some, along with the Christians on this issue.

    The so called, make little of it, sneak it in another bill syndrome.

    Yep, expect worse, as Christianity fades, only thing to look forward to, is as we become the minority we can then cry out like we are more than we are and claim prejudice and racism back and then we might get favours done for us.
    But some how I doubt it, why?

    Because it goes against the tide.
    How do I know Christianity is the right one of them all, because it causes the most offense, when we do the least.

    Leave being a muslim in a muslim country to be Christian and oh dear, in big trouble, watch for your life, family abandon you.
    But you leave Christianity to be Muslim and oh well, wish you weren't going, but can see I can't change your mind, wish you all the best.

    Also, if it's so wrong, that bad, why the need unlike other faiths to kills us, arrest us, all we do is talk and people get saved.
    Yet for the fanatics, fundamentalists of other religions, sometimes it's force and violence if you won't join them, see it their way, etc.

    Was said in the Bible, let it be, and if it is not of God, will disappear and if it is......

    2,000 years on, far more Christians, though fragmented into many groups, Catholics etc, that follow and accept Christ than any other faith, well religion.

    This is the problem, Christian is faith, a right, based on forefathers, not some man made religion.

    Mohammed, Buddah, never claimed to have been risen from the dead, all have graves.

    So sadly, yeah expect persecution the more we take Bible out of the picture.

    When will Christians wake up, more that fuss, stronger the voice, they get scared, back off, people power, so long as strong and many does work.

    But too many asleep, not bother, chilling man, your just over the top Lee, your nuts, not interested, sick of hearing about it.
    Well I'm close now to not bothering anymore.

    Just wake up one day and go, why can't I go to church, why did they remove the bibles, what has happened to......
    Game over.
     
  10. 4hurting

    4hurting Member

    477
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    Single
    See my profile, click on my web site, look at index and then the bit on global government and monstano and so on, get the picture and the agenda here.
    In fact, if they can't kill all Christians off, control them, and then we can, once we shut them up, maybe cut off the heads is symbolic in Revelation after all, lol, for shut them up, we can carry on forming our tower of babel to the heavens, which God will allow them this time to build.

    Until Yeshua returns and bang, think 9.0 eathquake and tsunami were bad, seen nothing yet, small drop in the ocean.
    Iamgine about, oh 50 of them happening almost at the same time, or one big 12.5 one, etc.
    Get the picture.
    Heck hope I'm wrong about the mid to post rapture, lol.
    Blessings Lee.
     
  11. 4hurting

    4hurting Member

    477
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    Quote:

    There have been cases of so called "groups" like this that have been planning to "take over the world" for centuries. There are WAY to many opposed to this radical NWO for it to come into effect.

    The end times were also when Hitler took power, when Castro took power, during the bubonic plague, etc. Guys we DO NOT KNOW, as Christ has made apparent through many instances in history. While YES we can say that this country is headed for a new direction and it may not be good, to say without certainty that these are the end times is unaccurate. Christ ONLY knows.

    True, lol, love this kind of challenge, but perhaps not here, see my blog for evidence to as why I believe we are that final generation, else be no need for Yeshua to return, way we going, and I can list hundreds of major events in the last few years alone, that says things like worst floods in a century, decades, so on.

    Point:
    Matthew 24:8 about the birth pangs, she does not stay pregnant forever.
    Why eas it not Hitler, Israel not a nation again, 1948, big key, need to read, research and look into it, the fig tree, Jesus said, symbol for Jerusalem etc.

    Again we take a look at Luke 21:24 They will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
    25 There will be signs in the sun, moon, and stars; and on the earth anxiety of nations, in perplexity for the roaring of the sea and the waves;
    26 men fainting for fear, and for expectation of the things which are coming on the world: for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
    27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

    Some take this to mean all in one, possible.
    But I know things also in the Bible work in stages, right, been proved, over time periods, etc.

    I believe today we are seeing only this:

    Stage set, music starting, lights dimming, curtain not even raised.

    God truly help us, if not mentally prepared when the curtain raises.
    Forget 911, Tsunmi, Katrina, all be going on that much, who can survive unless I return, be no flesh to return to Christg says.

    UK, worst Snow and cold weather in 20 years.
    So what, had them worst in the past, true, but in the past, did you have at the same time, recession, wild fires in Australi and this and that and diseases and.....
    Now you get the picture, hence Jesus warning Matthew 24:7, the end is not yet, have world wars and so on, not yet, not yet.
    But she is in labour.

    Forget global warming, where should we be looking for clues as to what is affecting the earth, apart from sin, see above, Bible source again:
    25 There will be signs in the sun, moon, and stars; and on the earth anxiety of nations, in perplexity for the roaring of the sea and the waves;

    What about sunspots, what about the moons affect on our tides, hmm, interesting.
    Maybe I should google, what did the 9.0 plus earthquake do in Far East apart from kill over 225,00 people, shook the earth of its axis.

    So the point is as I keep saying, when you start to see these happen more often, closer together, what must we do:

    28 But when these things begin to happen, look up, and lift up your heads, because your redemption is near."

    1 Thessalonians 5:4 1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need that anything be written to you.
    2 For you yourselves know well that the day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night.
    3 For when they are saying, "Peace and safety," then sudden destruction will come on them, like birth pains on a pregnant woman; and they will in no way escape.
    4 But you, brothers, aren't in darkness, that the day should overtake you like a thief.
    5 You are all children of light, and children of the day. We don't belong to the night, nor to darkness,

    Believe me, no one has doubts at times as much as I do, then something bnig happens in the world, then something else and then something else and I've got secluar people, even at work now saying what's going on in the world.
    I tell them, some of them, think, yeah yeah deep down, nutty Lee.

    They did Noah, laugh, scoff, what you building that thing for, water coming out of the sky and deep, lol, your mad.
    Still building that thing, been at it 60 years, lol, your mad.
    120 years, God patient, mankind not.
    Flood, game over.

    So again, mark the Bibles words not mine, I didn't write it, do it differently, lol, sure we all would.

    Blessings, Lee.
     
  12. HisdaughterJen

    HisdaughterJen Well-Known Member

    +411
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    Private
    The articles I'm reading coming out of Australia are all about the same thing...government taking over medical care, global warming/carbon nonsense, global government is the "solution".

    It appears to be a Western thing. I'm not hearing China or India or Russia or any country in the middle east jumping on the global government/global warming bandwagon....although it seems they already have population control measures in place. (one child rule, classes of society, fear and intimidation tactics)

    The modern day tower of Babel has started in Europe and is spreading.
     
  13. SummaScriptura

    SummaScriptura Forever Newbie

    +938
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Constitution
    Well, I used to think, "its probably not all going to come about during my lifetime". Now, I'm not too sure about that. Its all being rolled out at such speed. If this keeps up, none of us will be able to keep track of the changes they're rolling out as they do.

    I hate to think what Chairman Obama is capable of once the resistance becomes real and takes to the streets.

    Your nice comfy bed, the roof over your head, the relative peace in our streets, the very daily mundane things we all take for granted could be taken from us soon.

    Lord give us grace.
     
  14. LightHorseman

    LightHorseman Well-Known Member Supporter

    +318
    Catholic
    AU-Liberals
    The government decides who lives and who dies? one concrete example of this would be useful.

    Unless we're talking about medical triage, of course, but thats not really deciding who lives or dies through database, but rather insufficient funding of public medicine.
     
  15. LightHorseman

    LightHorseman Well-Known Member Supporter

    +318
    Catholic
    AU-Liberals
    Australian here...

    There is a national healthcare system, called medicare, which provides EVERYONE with the basics of medical care. This means we don't have children dying from preventable illness due to poor funding. If you so choose, as well as the government funding, we are ENCOURAGED to have private health insurance as well.

    I havn't seen anything to suggest the Australian government is pro-one world government

    and global warming/carbon nonsense is nonsense because... what, the scientific consensus is made up?
     
  16. Standing Up

    Standing Up On and on

    +2,545
    Christian
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    This is what is called a non sequtur.

    Instead of commenting on the message, comment on the messenger; in that way, the message is debunked.
     
  17. LightHorseman

    LightHorseman Well-Known Member Supporter

    +318
    Catholic
    AU-Liberals
    Well... I think there IS a point here... its a little hypocritical for one to wax judgemental on others when one is not without one's own flaws. Mote in thy neighbours eye and all that.
     
  18. 4hurting

    4hurting Member

    477
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    Did anyone ever see this:

    Economic Collapse In September?
    Clif Droke
    A rumor is swirling around the Internet that an inglorious end to the U.S. economy is imminent. Unlike previous rumors to this effect, this one carries the weight of recent events in the financial realm and has many believing the rumor will come to pass.
    Let’s examine some of the claims being made: On March 18, 2008, a “closed door” session of Congress was held for only the fourth time in history. According to House Rule XVII, clause 9, it is forbidden for members of the U.S. House of Representatives to reveal the discussions held behind those doors. The penalty for leaking such information includes loss of seniority, fines, reprimand, censure or expulsion. According to news sources, one purpose of the meetings was to discuss new surveillance techniques to be used by U.S. Homeland Security. Rumors continue to swirl as to what the other topics of discussion took place in that meeting.
    According to the Australia.TO newspaper, as reported in the May 2008 Last Trumpet Newsletter (LTM), several congressmen were so incensed about what was discussed behind those doors that they were compelled to leak the contents of the meeting. Following is what is rumored to have been discussed: Imminent collapse of the U.S. economy by September 2008; imminent collapse of the U.S. Government finances by February 2009; possibility of civil war within the U.S. resulting from the collapse; detainment of “insurgent U.S. citizens” in anticipation of their moving against the government; the potential for violent action taken by citizens against members of Congress due to the collapses; the merger of the U.S. economy with those of Canada and Mexico as a solution to the collapse; the introduction of a new tri-national currency called the “AMERO” as another economic solution.
    Needless to say, that’s a lot of information to process. Unfortunately none of it can be verified and it essentially falls under the category of rumor and as such must be treated as suspect. It brings to mind another rumor that had the Internet community abuzz last September regarding the so-called “Bin Laden options trade.” You may recall the rumors that circulated across many Internet sites in Sept. 2007. The rumors concerned an unknown trader(s) placing options bets on the S&P 500 and the Dow Jones Eurostoxx50 index that wouldn’t pay off unless a 25%+ crash occurred by options expiration that same month. These high-profile “mystery” trades were used by several independent and mainstream media outlets to conjure up of another 9/11-type terrorist episode.
    The end result was that the stock market rallied sharply shortly after the stories appeared and several indices made new all-time highs in October. The terrorist event that was conjured up by the options trade never came to pass.
    Now before you dismiss me as a Pollyanna, let me say that there does ring a certain measure of truth to the rumor concerning an economic collapse. There wouldn’t be as much fear generated over the headlines, nor would they be as widely circulated as they have been, if there wasn’t. The fact that many people even consider these stories as being potentially true is revealing of the mindset of Americans today: they are nervous about the economy, scared over high oil and gas prices and none too happy over the housing price deflation. So we can imagine how easily someone might be swayed by a rumor of this magnitude. More than anything else, the rumors of an imminent financial and economic collapse are symptomatic of a wounded mass psyche.



    Too long to put all here, but:
    http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/droke051708.html


    Normally I read things and am wary now, but funny this one actually came true it seems, so far anyway, the September one.
    We are in Feb now of course.


    Mind you, I'm predicting riots in the UK before long.
    Cause trouble is, youngsters don't believe in God and got no hope and see a bleak future, well, only takes something daft to trigger them off and bang.
     
  19. 4hurting

    4hurting Member

    477
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    And light horseman Barry Smith was right about the countries, like New Zealand getting rid of things like sheep farming, I think it was.
    Point being, he was making, each country relied on another for something.

    So interesting how the US struggles and effects every one.

    Meaning, we missed the boat, the so called system is already here.
    We are already intertwined.
    So take a crisis or two or more and we need to what, come together more, scrap the IMF or change it and come up with new laws to make us all, you know, work together, not let this happen again, so on.
    I'll be watching, waiting eagerly in April in London to see what the G20 come up with.

    What's wrong with peace?
    What's wrong with working together, so on?

    Nothing, to the average Joe Bloggs, no wonder we seem like the terrorists, the fanatics, won't play ball.
    But we know as wide awake Christians, it does not work.

    What happened last time come together, tower of Babel.

    Great piece, love to type it all out from David Hathway, latest mag on about mammon, how everyone, nations, worshiping it as such, now how it's fallen and a great time for evangelising etc.

    Praise God I found it:

    http://www.propheticvision.org.uk/PV/PV51uk.pdf

    Through 2008 we have witnessed a credit
    crisis which has seen the burden of debt
    spiralling out of control, the collapse of
    businesses, banks and building societies.
    Although interest rates have fallen to an
    all-time low – in Britain the lowest since the
    establishment of our banking system – yet
    credit is more difficult to obtain because
    the money supply has dried up. We’re living
    in a generation that saw the collapse
    of communism 20 years ago and right
    now, in 2009, the possible collapse of capitalism
    in Russia, China and…??! – With the
    possible breakdown of political stability in
    these and other emerging market nations
    as a result.
    We’re in a battle – but I believe this shaking
    that we’re in will create the biggest
    opportunity we’ve ever had to evangelise!
    I believe God is shaking the nations so that
    they will not only need Christ, but find that
    there is no other answer. People today
    need Jesus. More and more they will want
    to see the power of God in action. They
    will need to see men and women who are
    living by faith, who have become victorious
    through faith! As in the time of Christ,
    and in my own ministry today, the power
    of the message is in the miraculous and in
    its overwhelming evidence of the veracity
    of the message!
    So now that demonstration must be in the
    financial world, through of men of faith
    who live to see the power of God – not
    through the so-called ‘prosperity message’,
    but through individuals triumphing
    over every adversity. We are living in the
    most dangerous and difficult period of
    Christian history ever. The world is controlled
    by atheists who have rejected God
    and chosen Mammon – this is both cause
    and effect!
     
  20. HisdaughterJen

    HisdaughterJen Well-Known Member

    +411
    Christian
    Private
    OHHH my!

    It appears you might need some eye-openers, so here you go!


    http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2009/01/30/1232818725574.html

    "Time for a new world order: PM

    Phillip Coorey Chief Political Correspondent
    January 31, 2009"


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaiHknko6dM


    "Until we get to a representative world structure of power, that is global political power and global financial power, then that's the only way, I think now, confidence will really return to this". (Speaking of world economy)



    Furthermore, did you even read the first post? The American government intends to put all medical files in an electronic database, establish a new bureau commissioned to decide how hospitals and doctors treat the patients or even if it's worth the investment depending on the age and health of the individual. Apparently the elderly "are going to have to take the brunt of it". Now, that's MORE than making sure everyone gets the "basics of medical care".

    Right now, in this country, hospitals are not allowed to ask for money if you visit an emergency room. You see a doctor whether you have the money or not. Apparently all of this will change. Some bureaucrat in Washington is going to decide if you are worth the money they are going to spend to treat you. Doctors and Hospitals who don't follow the rules will be sanctioned.


    Now, regarding global warming...it is the biggest lie to come along since "Elvis still lives" (a lie).

    It is agenda driven. That agenda is to implement taxes and laws that take more money out of our pockets (in the form of carbon offset tax) and try to reduce the population....after all, the more people exhaling carbon dioxide, the worse off the environment will be. BALONEY!

    And no, there isn't "scientific consensus". Most meterologists and geologists in this country openly declare with verifiable proof that it's a sham!

    I don't know where you get your information but you need to do some digging and stop listening to and joining in the mindless mantra...
    "Obama will save the world" "Global warming will destroy us unless we pay our carbon taxes" "There is no agenda to create a global government or new world order" "More government is the solution"...BLAH BLAH BLAH! :doh:
     
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