Homosexuality: A Lifestyle Choice?

[vipertaja]

It's always good to judge something you are not.

 

[The Seeker]

Many homosexuals report depression and other psychological symptoms, particularly in the early formative years

1. Sources?
2. You don't think that this could be anything to do with living in a society where they are made to feel like freaks or "abominations", do you?

But to say "I've always felt different and therefore I am homosexual" is oversimplified.

What a daft strawman. Where have you seen anybody use that line of argument? I have heard many gay people saying that they have always felt attracted towards the same sex rather than the opposite sex, but that hardly bolsters your argument that homosexuality is a learned trait, does it?

There is no "gay gene." No scientist can claim that a gene causes the form of behavior known as homosexuality.

Obviously nothing as complex as human sexuality can be controlled by a single gene, however, there is evidence of a strong genetic factor in homosexuality:

http://allpsych.com/journal/homosexuality.html
J. Michael Bailey and Richard Pillard also studied the gayness between MZ twins, DZ twins, and non-related adopted brothers. They examined how many of the sample population examined were gay and how many were straight. They found that 52% of MZ twins were both self-identified homosexuals, 22% of DZ twins were so, and only 5% of non-related adopted brothers were so. This evidence, repeated and found to be true a second time, showed to the biological camp that the more closely genetically linked a pair is, the more likely they both are to exhibit gay or straight tendencies. Later experimenters found similar evidence in females. One such scientist is Dean Hamer. Hamer examined the possibility of homosexuality being an X-linked trait. He examined the family trees of openly gay men, and thought he saw a maternal link, leading him to investigate his theory of X-linkage. He took 40 DNA samples from homosexual men, and genetically examined them. He found that there was a 'remarkable concordance' for 5 genetic markers on section of the X-Chromosome called Xq28 [2].

Maybe you'd like to cite some reputable pyschological and sociological papers backing up your argument instead of vague assertions?

 

[Blessed2003]

Based on the psychology of youth, I believe homosexuality is a lifestyle choice. I also believe that because of growing acceptance of homosexuality, it is encouraging people to "come out of the closet." Also, there exists a train of thought in sociology that we are all born with a "clean slate," or that all behaviors are learned, not innate. This states that it is our psychological and physical environment that determines our personality and behavior characteristics.

Many homosexuals report depression and other psychological symptoms, particularly in the early formative years. There is often abuse in the family, or an absent parent. Very few professed homosexuals have come from stable backgrounds with two heterosexual parents. Often times homosexuals will say they have "always felt different," but who doesn't?

When I was young, I felt different too. But it obviously didn't mean I was homosexual. There's probably some psychological issues from my own youth I haven't fully worked out yet, but everyone has these issues too. But to say "I've always felt different and therefore I am homosexual" is oversimplified. It's a seeking after that which will not help the psychology of the individual, but harm him or her.

There is no "gay gene." No scientist can claim that a gene causes the form of behavior known as homosexuality. And already, programs in place prove that yes, a person can become a heterosexual if they have so-called homosexual leanings.

I firmly believe homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, and I have both modern psychology, sociology, and most important, the Bible to back me up.

What exactly do you mean, not to get all technical with words, but I am not understanding. Let me see if this is it, are you saying that basically you believe homosexuality to be something someone chooses in life as a way to live therefore we can not attribute it to genetics or any behavior that is learned or a result of some childhood or other trauma?

I do believe it's a choice. As is everything, surely we all have urges to do things we know are wrong. In considering right and wrong our environments play a huge part, where do you get the statistic you stated in the first and second paragraph? I believe abuse would possibly be an influencing factor, however I would also be willing to wager the fact that not all practicing homosexual's have a history of abuse nor come from a broken home, I think it is something we need more understanding of definately, instead of automatically making a judgement call because of the belief of God. I too have made the same call, however I believe nothing is black and white, and ofcourse we are all entitled to our opinion.

Thanks,
B~

 

[beechy]

Based on the psychology of youth, I believe homosexuality is a lifestyle choice. I also believe that because of growing acceptance of homosexuality, it is encouraging people to "come out of the closet." Also, there exists a train of thought in sociology that we are all born with a "clean slate," or that all behaviors are learned, not innate. This states that it is our psychological and physical environment that determines our personality and behavior characteristics.

Many homosexuals report depression and other psychological symptoms, particularly in the early formative years. There is often abuse in the family, or an absent parent. Very few professed homosexuals have come from stable backgrounds with two heterosexual parents. Often times homosexuals will say they have "always felt different," but who doesn't?

When I was young, I felt different too. But it obviously didn't mean I was homosexual. There's probably some psychological issues from my own youth I haven't fully worked out yet, but everyone has these issues too. But to say "I've always felt different and therefore I am homosexual" is oversimplified. It's a seeking after that which will not help the psychology of the individual, but harm him or her.

There is no "gay gene." No scientist can claim that a gene causes the form of behavior known as homosexuality. And already, programs in place prove that yes, a person can become a heterosexual if they have so-called homosexual leanings.

I firmly believe homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, and I have both modern psychology, sociology, and most important, the Bible to back me up.

Can you define for me, please, what you think a straight or heterosexual person is?

 

[gaijin178]

I will never accept it when someone says that homosexuality is a choice. I fear that most of the people who make statements like this have never had any contact with someone who is homosexual or even been able to call one a friend.

I was walking with my girlfriend, another friend and his boyfriend the other night on the beach. They were holding hands like everyone else walking on the beach that evening. They got stared at, yelled at, called horrible things, and all they did was walk down the beach like everyone else. I am sure that they really chose that lifestyle. They are constantly hurt because they can't show any affection in public like the rest of us do and it causes them so much pain. Again, why would anyone chose that?

 

[levi501]

You'd think that at the OP of one of these threads would know enough to show sources.
I could basically assert the opposite of everything he said in his initial post and it would be just as fair and probably far more accurate.

 

[Princess_333]

Many homosexuals report depression and other psychological symptoms, particularly in the early formative years. There is often abuse in the family, or an absent parent. Very few professed homosexuals have come from stable backgrounds with two heterosexual parents. Often times homosexuals will say they have "always felt different," but who doesn't?

My gay friends didn't come from broken homes.
As people mentioned above, please show some sources

But to say "I've always felt different and therefore I am homosexual" is oversimplified. It's a seeking after that which will not help the psychology of the individual, but harm him or her..

I'm not sure where you got that from either.
Homosexuals don't just use the statement "I've always felt different therefore I'm gay"
they might say that "I've always felt different because I was always attracted to people of my own sex"

And already, programs in place prove that yes, a person can become a heterosexual if they have so-called homosexual leanings.

Well I don't even know what you mean by that. A person can become hetero if they learn "gay"?

I firmly believe homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, and I have both modern psychology, sociology, and most important, the Bible to back me up.

I completely disagree. I don't think people make a conscious choice to be ostracized and judged by society
Just like straight heteros are not choosing to be attracted to people of the opposite sex, gays/bis don't control their feelings either.

 

[beechy]

I'll tell a bit of my story again -- it's been a while. I've been comfortably "straight" all my life. My parents are married. I was never abused. I've dated a number of men. The only time I have ever experienced what in retrospect recognize as depression was during a particularly bad breakup with an ex-boyfriend. One day in my mid twenties I met a woman at work and we became fast friends. Our friendship grew deeper after I left that job and eventually I started to realize I was developing feelings for her that extended beyond my typical same-sex friendships. It wasn't because I was lonely -- I was dating a couple of different guys at the time and had a strong group of friends. But for whatever reason I was becoming attracted to this woman physically, as I normally might be with a man, and was feeling closer and closer to her emotionally. And I could tell that she was feeling the same way. I struggled with these feelings initially, because it was so far outside my usual sense of sexuality. I asked myself why I would stop myself from acting on these feelings as I would with a man. As I peeled away the layers I realized that the only thing that would stop me would be fear -- fear of what other people would think, fear of what that would "make" me (gay?), fear of how it would affect my comfortable, easy life. I prayed as well. I didn't worry about it being a "sin", however, because I didn't believe that the Bible condemned homosexuality (yes, I've read the oft cited passages, yes, I've prayed on it). Ultimately, I decided to go with it. We've been happily together ever since (nearly a year). I have no idea why I started to feel the way I feel about her and honestly, I don't really care. But I love her, we treat each other well, and we have a comfortable life together.

So again, what does it mean to be "straight"? What does it mean to be "gay"? Is it a lifestyle? Is it a feeling? Who knows? Who cares? A preference is a preference, wherever it comes from. Some people don't like vanilla ice cream because they just don't think it tastes good, other people don't like vanilla ice cream because they were forced to eat it during fraternity hazing until they puked, and now it carries a nauseating association -- why does it matter either way? The result is the same -- they're both going to avoid vanilla and go for chocolate ...

The only reason anyone would care about other people's preferences, be they innate or learned, is because they think there is a problem with people acting on that preference.

If I prefer to kill, I would expect people to have a problem with me acting on that preference. But if I prefer to come home to my girl, why is that a problem for you, me, or anyone else? Who are we hurting? We're happy, we're stable, we have great communication, we're productive members of society, and I'd wager that our home life looks a lot like that of other opposite sex couples. The only objection I can think of is a religious one, and I simply don't agree that the Bible condemns homosexuality.

 

[Phred]

Well, another nonsense OP designed to justify a person's prejudices and fears.

If homosexuality is a choice one makes, then heterosexuality is also a choice. It's just one more people make. Tell me, if I tie you to a chair and hold a gun to your head, can you change your sexual orientation? Can you find a member of your own sex attractive just by wanting to?

Science shows us the brains of homosexuals and heterosexuals react differently to various stimuli. No, it's not a "gay gene" but our sexual orientation is hardwired into us. That'll be hard for you to accept, so I'm not gonna bother trying to convince you. Hate who you will, justify it however you must. Hopefully you're right and there's a deity who will judge you upon your death. This'll be a hard one to defend... hating gays who are made by God too.

 

[butterfoot]

It's always good to judge something you are not.

You need to read the Opening statement again. I don't think anyone was judging.

I will never accept it when someone says that homosexuality is a choice. I fear that most of the people who make statements like this have never had any contact with someone who is homosexual or even been able to call one a friend.

I was walking with my girlfriend, another friend and his boyfriend the other night on the beach. They were holding hands like everyone else walking on the beach that evening. They got stared at, yelled at, called horrible things, and all they did was walk down the beach like everyone else. I am sure that they really chose that lifestyle. They are constantly hurt because they can't show any affection in public like the rest of us do and it causes them so much pain. Again, why would anyone chose that?

Just because you can't accept it doesn't mean anything. While their feelings for one another may be genuine nothing has been shown to prove that it isn't a lifestyle choice. Having many wifes is a lifestyle choice but you don't see people accepting it do you. I don't accept homosexuality as anything other than a lifestyle choice.

http://home.earthlink.net/~mlbakke1/lifestyl.htm

-cw

 

[Toboe]

Based on the psychology of youth, I believe homosexuality is a lifestyle choice. I also believe that because of growing acceptance of homosexuality, it is encouraging people to "come out of the closet."
------------
Coming out the closet means being open about your sexuality not chooseing to br gay or bi.

Also, there exists a train of thought in sociology that we are all born with a "clean slate," or that all behaviors are learned, not innate. This states that it is our psychological and physical environment that determines our personality and behavior characteristics.
------------
You know the rules back up what you say

Many homosexuals report depression and other psychological symptoms, particularly in the early formative years. There is often abuse in the family, or an absent parent. Very few professed homosexuals have come from stable backgrounds with two heterosexual parents. Often times homosexuals will say they have "always felt different," but who doesn't?
----------
Please tell me where you got your information.

When I was young, I felt different too. But it obviously didn't mean I was homosexual. There's probably some psychological issues from my own youth I haven't fully worked out yet, but everyone has these issues too. But to say "I've always felt different and therefore I am homosexual" is oversimplified. It's a seeking after that which will not help the psychology of the individual, but harm him or her.
---------
No s*** everyone feel different

There is no "gay gene." No scientist can claim that a gene causes the form of behavior known as homosexuality. And already, programs in place prove that yes, a person can become a heterosexual if they have so-called homosexual leanings.
------
back up what you say with something

I firmly believe homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, and I have both modern psychology, sociology, and most important, the Bible to back me up.
-------------
You have all of those really I didn't see them posted any where.

 

[beechy]

Just because you can't accept it doesn't mean anything. While their feelings for one another may be genuine nothing has been shown to prove that it isn't a lifestyle choice.

If you feel scared, have you chosen to feel that way? How about when you feel sad? or happy? Why are feelings of attraction any different? The only choice being made is how to deal with those feelings. Should you act on them? Recognize them? Try and change them? That's the choice. And I don't see a problem with choosing to recognize and act on romantic feelings for someone of the same sex (provided, of course, that person is an adult, is receptive, etc etc).

 

[Blessed2003]

I'll tell a bit of my story again -- it's been a while. I've been comfortably "straight" all my life. My parents are married. I was never abused. I've dated a number of men. The only time I have ever experienced what in retrospect recognize as depression was during a particularly bad breakup with an ex-boyfriend. One day in my mid twenties I met a woman at work and we became fast friends. Our friendship grew deeper after I left that job and eventually I started to realize I was developing feelings for her that extended beyond my typical same-sex friendships. It wasn't because I was lonely -- I was dating a couple of different guys at the time and had a strong group of friends. But for whatever reason I was becoming attracted to this woman physically, as I normally might be with a man, and was feeling closer and closer to her emotionally. And I could tell that she was feeling the same way. I struggled with these feelings initially, because it was so far outside my usual sense of sexuality. I asked myself why I would stop myself from acting on these feelings as I would with a man. As I peeled away the layers I realized that the only thing that would stop me would be fear -- fear of what other people would think, fear of what that would "make" me (gay?), fear of how it would affect my comfortable, easy life. I prayed as well. I didn't worry about it being a "sin", however, because I didn't believe that the Bible condemned homosexuality (yes, I've read the oft cited passages, yes, I've prayed on it). Ultimately, I decided to go with it. We've been happily together ever since (nearly a year). I have no idea why I started to feel the way I feel about her and honestly, I don't really care. But I love her, we treat each other well, and we have a comfortable life together.

So again, what does it mean to be "straight"? What does it mean to be "gay"? Is it a lifestyle? Is it a feeling? Who knows? Who cares? A preference is a preference, wherever it comes from. Some people don't like vanilla ice cream because they just don't think it tastes good, other people don't like vanilla ice cream because they were forced to eat it during fraternity hazing until they puked, and now it carries a nauseating association -- why does it matter either way? The result is the same -- they're both going to avoid vanilla and go for chocolate ...

The only reason anyone would care about other people's preferences, be they innate or learned, is because they think there is a problem with people acting on that preference.

If I prefer to kill, I would expect people to have a problem with me acting on that preference. But if I prefer to come home to my girl, why is that a problem for you, me, or anyone else? Who are we hurting? We're happy, we're stable, we have great communication, we're productive members of society, and I'd wager that our home life looks a lot like that of other opposite sex couples. The only objection I can think of is a religious one, and I simply don't agree that the Bible condemns homosexuality.

Thanks beechy, sometimes all I need is an insider's perspective and I can see it in a totally different way.
I must admit, fear is the driving force behind the belief that homosexuality is wrong, for me, it always has been. I was taught that and because in my home growing up, the Bible was the number one source for all of our families core beliefs, I wasn't allowed to question it, to do that would be to 'spit in God's face'
I still fear speaking of the issue truthfully, because of the religious aspect of it.
Anway, thanks,
B~

 

[Toboe]

Just because you can't accept it doesn't mean anything. While their feelings for one another may be genuine nothing has been shown to prove that it isn't a lifestyle choice. Having many wifes is a lifestyle choice but you don't see people accepting it do you. I don't accept homosexuality as anything other than a lifestyle choice.

http://home.earthlink.net/~mlbakke1/lifestyl.htm

-cw

I'm confused how can you say that thier feelings for each other are genuine but you say its a choice. Isn't that a bit contradictory?

If you could answer these for me.

Did you personily ever Choose to be straight?
Could you ever Imagine being in a relationship with someone of the same sex?
Why would anyone choose to be different?

 

[beechy]

Thanks beechy, sometimes all I need is an insider's perspective and I can see it in a totally different way.
I must admit, fear is the driving force behind the belief that homosexuality is wrong, for me, it always has been. I was taught that and because in my home growing up, the Bible was the number one source for all of our families core beliefs, I wasn't allowed to question it, to do that would be to 'spit in God's face'
I still fear speaking of the issue truthfully, because of the religious aspect of it.
Anway, thanks,
B~

No problem. Thank YOU for listening! This relationship has been a very educational experience for me and I honestly belief that she is a gift from God to teach me about life, love, and tolerance -- because before she came along, although I had a number of gay friends I just didn't "get it". God always seems to have a way of helping me "get it". But I'll admit, this lesson was certainly unexpected

Now, that said, there are those on this board who will certainly view my perspective (and your response) as a dangerous instance of seed scattering, and bearing of bad fruit. So know that if you believe that the Bible says homosexuality is a sin, I am certainly not trying to change your mind, turn you away from God, etc. I would encourage you to explore the issue with God yourself if you are so inclined. I'm just relating what I believe, in the context of my own relationship with God (which could always be better!), and sharing my personal experience.

God bless.

 

[rachelness]

I couldn't care less if homosexuals are born that way, if they choose the "homosexual lifestyle", or if they were all raped by their uncles as kids. They're not harming me. End of.

 

[rnmomof7]

Mod hat


I am giving this thread a chance to stay .

From this post on a continued practice of ignoring the Posting rules will result in warnings for posters and closing the thread

Please read the rules


Homosexuality Discussion Rules
All claims of fact relevant to the topic of homosexuality must be backed by evidence complete with citations. Standard citations are acceptable but links are prefered.
Justice Scalia Foo v. Bar 1992 is an acceptable citation but a link to the decision would be prefered if available.
Freud said blah blah blah is not an acceptable citation.
I missed your last post sorry for not responding. is an example of a statement of fact that does not require a citation.
Depression is an example of something that may be genetic that proves even if homosexuality is genetic that it is not necessarily good. is an example of something that needs a citation. In this case a citation for depression being genetic would be required.
Personal testimony and opinion are allowed, must be clearly stated as such, and posts cannot consist entirely of opinion or testimony they must have some factual claim that is relevant to the opinion or testimony stated.
God delivered me from the sin of homosexuality. would require some factual statement. In this case homosexuality being sinful would suffice and the relvant part of Romans 1 would serve as a citation.
Violation of these rules can and will result in any action allowable under protocol including Official Warnings and Forum Specific Bans.


Thank you


Mod hat off

 

[SackLunch]

Maybe this will answer your questions. The Bible states that homosexuality is a sin, and a lifestyle choice. My opposition to homosexuality has nothing to do with fear. It has everything to do with what God says is a right way to live (for Jesus Christ) and a wrong way to live, as in the issue of homosexuality we are dealing with today. It is cut and dry. Christianity and homosexuality are mutually exclusive.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Notice that God said homosexual offenders. One who offends makes the decision to offend. One is not born an offender; they make that decision before the time of the offense.

Can a convicted murderer claim he was "born to murder" because of a murder gene? Can a rapist claim he raped a hundred women and young boys because he was born that way? Of course not. They all made the choice to offend. There was obviously psychological trauma inflicted on these individuals at some point, and that created the conditions for their actions. But they CHOSE to behave the way they did.

It is no different with homosexuality.

 

[The Seeker]

Notice that God said homosexual offenders.

Notice that Paul isn't a God.

Can a convicted murderer claim he was "born to murder" because of a murder gene? Can a rapist claim he raped a hundred women and young boys because he was born that way? Of course not. They all made the choice to offend. There was obviously psychological trauma inflicted on these individuals at some point, and that created the conditions for their actions. But they CHOSE to behave the way they did.

It is no different with homosexuality.

Homosexuality is the same as murder? Charming

 

[Toboe]

Maybe this will answer your questions. The Bible states that homosexuality is a sin, and a lifestyle choice. My opposition to homosexuality has nothing to do with fear. It has everything to do with what God says is a right way to live (for Jesus Christ) and a wrong way to live, as in the issue of homosexuality we are dealing with today. It is cut and dry. Christianity and homosexuality are mutually exclusive.
---------------
Nothing is as cut and dry as you think it is.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
---------------

"The original Greek text describes the two behaviors as "malakoi" (some sources quote "malakee,") and "arsenokoitai." Although these is often translated by modern Bibles as "homosexual," we can be fairly certain that this is not the meaning that Paul wanted to convey. If he had, he would have used the Greek word "paiderasste." That was the standard term at the time for male homosexuals. We can conclude that he probably meant something different from persons who engaged in male-male adult sexual behavior.

As you can see it can be explained your way my way or any number of differnt ways. How is that cut and dry.

Notice that God said homosexual offenders. One who offends makes the decision to offend. One is not born an offender; they make that decision before the time of the offense.
-----------
God did not write that Paul did, get your fact straight.

Can a convicted murderer claim he was "born to murder" because of a murder gene? Can a rapist claim he raped a hundred women and young boys because he was born that way? Of course not. They all made the choice to offend. There was obviously psychological trauma inflicted on these individuals at some point, and that created the conditions for their actions. But they CHOSE to behave the way they did.
-------------
Yes they chose to kill and rape people, but how dose homosexuality harm any one.
NO

It is no different with homosexuality.
-------------
Yes it is homosexuality dose not harm anyone. And I also yet to see proof that