Holy Spirit false teachings?

[Southernscotty]

Actually it didn’t help at all. I kinda feel sorry for you, that you think it did.

And then you totally ignored your chance to actually prove if your ‘more correct’ understanding of 2Tim 2:15 could ‘head to head’ trump mine. Now we’re all just left to assume why you didn’t even try.

Because I went deer hunting right after sending that. Today was the last day of firearms season so I left and went hunting. Now I am back so let er rip tater chip :]
2 Timothy 2:15 is what led me to correctly divide the Word and see that Heb 1 where you obviously are lost friend.
God dealt with Israel under the law differently than He does with us in the grace age now.
We are saved by grace through faith. Eph2:8-9
If you rightly divide the Word, You will see that we are in a new dispensation and are under the "church or grace age" in which the apostolic gifts have ceased after the apostles, They were no longer needed after the gospel was given.
Christ fulfilled everything and gave the apostle Paul the gospel of 1 cor 1-4 and we are saved by believing the death, Burial and resurrection of Christ, So it is fully by His grace [first] By our faith and I will add out of our repentant heart, Because that is where God likes to work.

Your turn :]

 

[Hillsage]

First off Hillsage, who are you to demand I announce my faith to you?

First off that's an easy question to answer BIBLICALLY. I'm just a believer who has no problem ASKING you to make a defense for yourself just like I gave for myself.

1PE 3:15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you,..

I have no idea what the first part of your post is saying, though it seems to be directed to me...??

Sorry if it was not clear. I assumed from your first post that when I said "us", I meant Charismatics vs most of you here on this thread. IOW this thread simply brings up the 'haves' and 'have nots' fight, that never goes away. As one who has always 'sought the truth no matter where it led concerning the nominal church' I just hate the misrepresentations of this thread so I jumped in.

Second, I told of my experience. If you are a Pentecostal and are offended by my post, that's the way the cookie crumbles, as they say. My intention was to simply tell of my experience and give my general assessment of it. It is what it is.

That's exactly what I did too, in my rebuttal. I just told of my experience and my specific assessment backed by BIBLE. And my verse always offends the "ungifted/unlearned". But they never get mad at Paul for writing it....only at me, for holding them accountable biblically. And yes it is a cookie crusher.

Third, for the record: I am a person saved entirely by the work and blood of Christ Jesus who gave Himself up as God in human form and who reigns the heavens today and forever. That's all you or anyone else needs to know, brother.

Well we differ there too. My spirit was 'saved entirely' by the work and blood of Jesus. But my soul is BEING saved as "Christ is being formed in you" as Paul said. And my 'natural 1st Adam body' is pretty much going to 'hades'/the grave...except the Lord return before. And my 'entirely saved' spiritual body will be given on the other side of glory AFTER the BEMA judgment seat of Christ.

And I'll just now assume you've pretty well shoehorned yourself into the obvious biblical category no fundamentalist here has ever been willing to confess to. But believe me when I say, I do understand why you all don't.

 

[Hillsage]

They were a one I am not on your list as a follower of Christ a daughter of God

Excuse me? Could you please clarify what you are even referencing this quote above to?

I am very "gifted" but refuse to have anyone dismiss or talk down to me because my gifts do not involve speaking in tongue and I will not argue scripture or religion so Blessings

As you justify your right to not have "anyone dismiss and talk down to" you, so also do I declare as my right. But I'll not just answer with empty talk, but with scripture. The scripture was specific about the gift of "speaking in tongues". Being 'new' here at CF, maybe you've just missed realizing this is the CONTROVERSIAL forum. Not all Christians are really qualified to be here, especially if they can't argue scripture or religion IMO....but we're ALL certainly entitled to 'our opinions'.

 

[Hillsage]

Because I went deer hunting right after sending that. Today was the last day of firearms season so I left and went hunting. Now I am back so let er rip tater chip :

So, a deer slayer huh? I loved bow hunting for several years...especially 'spot and stalk'. So, 'last day man', did you punch your tag? Or did your chip get cracked? I ask because I've never seen a 'chip rip'...a potato maybe, but let's not debate your 'wrong thinking' there too.

2 Timothy 2:15 is what led me to correctly divide the Word and see that Heb 1 where you obviously are lost friend.

Well, I won't give you a star for being a good shepherd to start with either. Got correctly 'discern' that a sheep's lost, or you're going to waste a lot of time 'thinking you're right'.

God dealt with Israel under the law differently than He does with us in the grace age now.
We are saved by grace through faith. Eph2:8-9
If you rightly divide the Word, You will see that we are in a new dispensation and are under the "church or grace age" in which the apostolic gifts have ceased after the apostles, They were no longer needed after the gospel was given.

As I figured, a 'not so worthy' view , since it's a mile off. Though you do get credit for it being a 'deeper thinker' POV. And I say "deeper" when compared to all the jail ministry arguers I dealt with. Those who had nothing to do, with their jail house conversions, other than read their bibles all day every day, in order to 'argue with every other guy who also studied their bibles to win a doctrinal POV. Thereby 'proving' to God how hard you studied the bible. Ends up in a gospel of TALK instead of one revealing a Christlike WALK.

But applying a 'spiritual minded' view to such 'carnal minded' doctrines, brings a whole new light to this totally abused verse.

2TI 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

And I will start by do an etymological study of the word of "approved". A word which most nominal thinkers means a 'pat on the back from God'....NOT! It is a Greek word which 'by definition' deals with the ability to experientially test the authenticity of coin money. A modern day illustrative example is that definition is that of a miner 'biting a gold coin' or 'proofing a gold coin' to test it is real. And "rightly handling the word of TRUTH", means if you say "I'm a Christian and have the fruit of the Spirit" then when someone steps on you, you should crush like a worm even as the messianic psalm of Jesus declares.

PSA 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; scorned by men, and despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock at me, they make mouths at me, they wag their heads;
8 "He committed his cause to the LORD; let him deliver him, let him rescue him, for he delights in him!"

But rather than 'showing yourself approved/genuine' concerning 'the word of truth'....you instead do like so many Christians, who when they are stepped on for 'their faith', they don't crush....they instead strike back and BITE, just like the snake they are truly 'proofing' themselves to be.

Read 'my scriptural' teaching in the verses whole biblical context and you will see your Baptist view is just as Holy Ghost wrong as the jailhouse POV.

Christ fulfilled everything and gave the apostle Paul the gospel of 1 cor 1-4 and we are saved by believing the death, Burial and resurrection of Christ, So it is fully by His grace [first] By our faith and I will add out of our repentant heart, Because that is where God likes to work.

Your turn :]

Totally agree, but this is totally irrelevant to the verse and it's context. So, deer slayer (I hope) how did my turn 'spin' for you?

 

[Righttruth]

Counterfeit Revival and Charismatic Chaos are both good books on the Pentecostal issue.

https://www.amazon.com/Counterfeit-Revival-Hank-Hanegraaff/dp/0849942942

https://www.amazon.com/Charismatic-...F2KPWJJK93X&psc=1&refRID=3G2APNMMDF2KPWJJK93X

Pentecostal movement is based on wrong interpretation of crafty Paul's letter specifically written to notorious Corinthian church.

 

[NBB]

I am in total disagreement with this. Only when you are saved do you even receive the Holy Spirit and when you do have it you don't lose it by sin because you are sealed with it..
You lose heavenly rewards and are punished by earthly standards but you are in the Ark of Christ and the door is shut!!

Yes you are sealed when becoming alive, you have the Holy spirit living in you, but that is different from being filled with the Holy spirit, when you are filled, you better live a decent christian life or you will loose the filling, and not everyone have this, it doens't make you superior or in 'another level' or somethig, but is very needed to be a good christian.

 

[Southernscotty]

Yes you are sealed when becoming alive, you have the Holy spirit living in you, but that is different from being filled with the Holy spirit, when you are filled, you better live a decent christian life or you will loose the filling, and not everyone have this, it doens't make you superior or in 'another level' or somethig, but is very needed to be a good christian.

Ok I see, Yes I agree you receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit or [Ghost] at the moment of salvation.
But Justification is much different than sanctification...

 

[Southernscotty]

So, a deer slayer huh? I loved bow hunting for several years...especially 'spot and stalk'. So, 'last day man', did you punch your tag? Or did your chip get cracked? I ask because I've never seen a 'chip rip'...a potato maybe, but let's not debate your 'wrong thinking' there too.

2 Timothy 2:15 is what led me to correctly divide the Word and see that Heb 1 where you obviously are lost friend.[/quote]
Well, I won't give you a star for being a good shepherd to start with either. Got correctly 'discern' that a sheep's lost, or you're going to waste a lot of time 'thinking you're right'.
As I figured, a 'not so worthy' view , since it's a mile off. Though you do get credit for it being a 'deeper thinker' POV. And I say "deeper" when compared to all the jail ministry arguers I dealt with. Those who had nothing to do, with their jail house conversions, other than read their bibles all day every day, in order to 'argue with every other guy who also studied their bibles to win a doctrinal POV. Thereby 'proving' to God how hard you studied the bible. Ends up in a gospel of TALK instead of one revealing a Christlike WALK.

But applying a 'spiritual minded' view to such 'carnal minded' doctrines, brings a whole new light to this totally abused verse.

2TI 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

And I will start by do an etymological study of the word of "approved". A word which most nominal thinkers means a 'pat on the back from God'....NOT! It is a Greek word which 'by definition' deals with the ability to experientially test the authenticity of coin money. A modern day illustrative example is that definition is that of a miner 'biting a gold coin' or 'proofing a gold coin' to test it is real. And "rightly handling the word of TRUTH", means if you say "I'm a Christian and have the fruit of the Spirit" then when someone steps on you, you should crush like a worm even as the messianic psalm of Jesus declares.

PSA 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; scorned by men, and despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock at me, they make mouths at me, they wag their heads;
8 "He committed his cause to the LORD; let him deliver him, let him rescue him, for he delights in him!"

But rather than 'showing yourself approved/genuine' concerning 'the word of truth'....you instead do like so many Christians, who when they are stepped on for 'their faith', they don't crush....they instead strike back and BITE, just like the snake they are truly 'proofing' themselves to be.

Read 'my scriptural' teaching in the verses whole biblical context and you will see your Baptist view is just as Holy Ghost wrong as the jailhouse POV.

Totally agree, but this is totally irrelevant to the verse and it's context. So, deer slayer (I hope) how did my turn 'spin' for you?[/QUOTE]
Good morning friend.
No I was hoping to get the big un I saw back in Nov. I have 4 in the freezer so I don't need anymore meat anyway but I did see a Fox and a Bobcat and a huge flock of cardinals though, So I enjoyed God's creation and had a great day.
First off Know that I am a hillbilly so the way I talk is different than most.
I also do not pretend to be smart. I am a lot like Forrest Gump, I am not a smart man, But I know what love is.
Now to our little discussion, Them sure is pretty words, However I didn't really see anything that would persuade me either way.
Lol, Many people don't like the word dispensation but it is simply a period of time in which we measure. Ie: Correctly divide the Word.
Using your definition is fine as it is just proof testing. I agree
Moses had the law and John came in baptising for repentance, Both of these were pointing to the ONE who would fulfill all the law and prophets. [That is Jesus Christ in case your wondering ]

What do you mean that we are not saved by grace through faith???? Eph 2:8-9 would seem to refute you here little buddy
The gospel is the good news and do you know what that good news is? it lies in 1 Cor 15:1-4
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Baptist view is Holy Ghosh wrong... Lol Friend when you climb the mountain of truth, You will find Baptist sitting there. "Probably gathered around the buffet"

I need coffee so I will send this for now TOUCHE

 

[BarWi]

First off that's an easy question to answer BIBLICALLY. I'm just a believer who has no problem ASKING you to make a defense for yourself just like I gave for myself.

1PE 3:15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you,..

I have no idea what the first part of your post is saying, though it seems to be directed to me...??[/quote]Sorry if it was not clear. I assumed from your first post that when I said "us", I meant Charismatics vs most of you here on this thread. IOW this thread simply brings up the 'haves' and 'have nots' fight, that never goes away. As one who has always 'sought the truth no matter where it led concerning the nominal church' I just hate the misrepresentations of this thread so I jumped in.


That's exactly what I did too, in my rebuttal. I just told of my experience and my specific assessment backed by BIBLE. And my verse always offends the "ungifted/unlearned". But they never get mad at Paul for writing it....only at me, for holding them accountable biblically. And yes it is a cookie crusher.

Well we differ there too. My spirit was 'saved entirely' by the work and blood of Jesus. But my soul is BEING saved as "Christ is being formed in you" as Paul said. And my 'natural 1st Adam body' is pretty much going to 'hades'/the grave...except the Lord return before. And my 'entirely saved' spiritual body will be given on the other side of glory AFTER the BEMA judgment seat of Christ.

And I'll just now assume you've pretty well shoehorned yourself into the obvious biblical category no fundamentalist here has ever been willing to confess to. But believe me when I say, I do understand why you all don't. [/QUOTE]
Sorry, you just don't make much sense to me and the parts of your writing I do understand convince me that rational discussion with you would be difficult to the point of impossible. Your verse (whatever it is you're talking about) doesn't offend me, sir. I can hardly make heads or tails of what you're talking about to begin with, and your second post is no more clear than the first unfortunately.

I just told of my experience and my specificassessment backed by BIBLE.

In the interest of holding to a proper level of integrity I believe the above should be modified to a more truthful, "...my specific assessment backed by my interpretation of the Bible."

If your years of experience as a Pentecostal or charismatic produces the sorts of replies you've made in this thread, I rest my case concerning the kind of fruit I mentioned in my first post. Is this pettiness how you convince non-charismatics that charismatics have a superior kind of faith? Give it some thought. Peace out, bro. finis

 

[YeshuaFan]

Yes there are good pentecostal churches, like i said i received the Holy spirit in one, and other experiences with God, if God would have not touched me that time in church, i would have left and kept living my life as he didn't existed like i was doing, but he 'grabbed' me with that experience, in a pentecostal church. God is not going to back up churches that are doing wrong with the Holy spirit.

There are however many who are being seduced and deceived by false teachers and pastors and so called Prophets and Apostles whose doctrines and practices are not of and from the Holy Spirit, as not found in the scriptures, but only in their false so called revelations!
Those reaching WoF and health and wealth, dominion, little gods etc, all with the umbrella of charismatic chaos!

 

[YeshuaFan]

I am in total disagreement with this. Only when you are saved do you even receive the Holy Spirit and when you do have it you don't lose it by sin because you are sealed with it..
You lose heavenly rewards and are punished by earthly standards but you are in the Ark of Christ and the door is shut!!

We have Jesus interceding for us as our High priest, and sealed by the Holy Spirit, so how can we forfeit eternal life in Christ?

 

[YeshuaFan]

Because I went deer hunting right after sending that. Today was the last day of firearms season so I left and went hunting. Now I am back so let er rip tater chip :]
2 Timothy 2:15 is what led me to correctly divide the Word and see that Heb 1 where you obviously are lost friend.
God dealt with Israel under the law differently than He does with us in the grace age now.
We are saved by grace through faith. Eph2:8-9
If you rightly divide the Word, You will see that we are in a new dispensation and are under the "church or grace age" in which the apostolic gifts have ceased after the apostles, They were no longer needed after the gospel was given.
Christ fulfilled everything and gave the apostle Paul the gospel of 1 cor 1-4 and we are saved by believing the death, Burial and resurrection of Christ, So it is fully by His grace [first] By our faith and I will add out of our repentant heart, Because that is where God likes to work.

Your turn :]

The Church was built upon the Cornerstone, Christ Jesus, and the spiritual foundation of theology was provided for us by His Apostles, so no more ever were given by God to us!

 

[Hillsage]

Sorry, you just don't make much sense to me and the parts of your writing I do understand convince me that rational discussion with you would be difficult to the point of impossible.

Hmm, sounds just like what I said, in essence, about your 'Symbolic Biblical Universalist' thread where we recently first met. So I find it 'ironically funny' that you can't dialogue here any better than I could there.

Your verse (whatever it is you're talking about) doesn't offend me, sir. I can hardly make heads or tails of what you're talking about to begin with, and your second post is no more clear than the first unfortunately.

You're not being offended , might just be because you can't make heads or tails of what is being talked about. OK, I certainly believe that's an honest confession. But in my opinion I think that what I've shared, SCRIPTURE has plainly and simply said. Your peers have often made it obvious that they undersood.

In the interest of holding to a proper level of integrity I believe the above should be modified to a more truthful, "...my specific assessment backed by my interpretation of the Bible."

I almost always just assume that 'such a point', as you just made for me, must simply be an 'understood' reality here at CONTROVERSIAL. I say that , because no one on your side ever uses...'IMO'...as much as I do. So your exhortation above is totally agreed upon.....just never equally applied IMO.

If your years of experience as a Pentecostal or charismatic produces the sorts of replies you've made in this thread, I rest my case concerning the kind of fruit I mentioned in my first post. Is this pettiness how you convince non-charismatics that charismatics have a superior kind of faith? Give it some thought. Peace out, bro. finis

I have thought about it, now re-read what you just 'pettily' and with 'superior kind of judgment' accused me of, one sentence AFTER pointing out my shortcomings in 'your opinion'. That's the problem I so often find here. Those who have never experienced a spiritual thing from BOTH SIDES, as I have in this case, then often fail to even tell the difference between judging me while MANIFESTING the judgmental spirit of being a 'black kettle calling the pot black'. Hopefully you can go before God, as I did, and give this some thought as I did you.

BarWi, I sincerely do appreciate your sign off. For calling me "Bro", in spite of our 'doctrinal disagreement' you've actually 'ended' above 'most' of your side's peers.

And, for the record brother, I know that my ASSURANCE often comes off as the false judgment of ARROGANCE to those who think they're right and I'm wrong. But you, of all posters on this thread right now, should know how readily I admitted complete incompetence to even enter in to your initial thread. And it was even 'a thread on a mutually held (I think) POV'. I do say "(I think)" because that's how lost I 'ADMITTEDLY CONFESSED and POSTED', to being. And therefore I yielded 'your thread' to two other 'talking heads' (blessing not cursing) which I do 'mostly' agree with (on that doctrine anyway) to allow them to "sharpen iron" with you. Though, having just checked, that thread appears to be waning. Hopefully this one will too.

 

[NBB]

There are however many who are being seduced and deceived by false teachers and pastors and so called Prophets and Apostles whose doctrines and practices are not of and from the Holy Spirit, as not found in the scriptures, but only in their false so called revelations!
Those reaching WoF and health and wealth, dominion, little gods etc, all with the umbrella of charismatic chaos!

I agree, there are weird stuff going on, just try to separate the pentecostals that try to be filled with the Holy spirit and pursue gifts etc, and live a decent christian life as they can than the others that are doing wrong.

 

[Stone-n-Steel]

I think the best test of anyone who preforms miracles in todays age is do they glorify the man or God. If there is profit involved or some sense of awe directed at the man then it is not of God.

 

[Hillsage]

I agree, there are weird stuff going on, just try to separate the pentecostals that try to be filled with the Holy spirit and pursue gifts etc, and live a decent christian life as they can than the others that are doing wrong.

Where is ANY verse to support your opinion. Let me share ours. Maybe a true Christian should just do what the BIBLE says, instead of listening to unsubstantiated personal opinions from the "ungifted/unlearned".

1CO 12:31 But earnestly desire the greater gifts. And I show you a still more excellent way.
1CO 14:1 Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.

Yep, bible disagrees with you concerning that spiritual "weird stuff" you just can't discern????? So why don't I just share the bible verses which really fit how the "ungifted/unlearned" really does think about Pentecostals.

1CO 14:23 Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are MAD (wierd stuff)?

ACT 2:15 "For these men are not drunk (wierd stuff), as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day;

So yes, separate the wierd stuff "as you suppose", because it is scary to those who don't understand such things. I do understand though. I was scared before fear was replaced by faith. I can only hope the same for you.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Where is ANY verse to support your opinion. Let me share ours. Maybe a true Christian should just do what the BIBLE says, instead of listening to unsubstantiated personal opinions from the "ungifted/unlearned".

1CO 12:31 But earnestly desire the greater gifts. And I show you a still more excellent way.
1CO 14:1 Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.

Yep, bible disagrees with you concerning that spiritual "weird stuff" you just can't discern????? So why don't I just share the bible verses which really fit how the "ungifted/unlearned" really does think about Pentecostals.

1CO 14:23 Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are MAD (wierd stuff)?

ACT 2:15 "For these men are not drunk (wierd stuff), as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day;

So yes, separate the wierd stuff "as you suppose", because it is scary to those who don't understand such things. I do understand though. I was scared before fear was replaced by faith. I can only hope the same for you.

MUCH better off to just stick with what we KNOW what inspired by the Holy Spirit to us, the scriptures themselves!

 

[YeshuaFan]

I think the best test of anyone who preforms miracles in todays age is do they glorify the man or God. If there is profit involved or some sense of awe directed at the man then it is not of God.

That would eliminate just about 99.9 % of the stuff that is being alleged to be doing in the name of Jesus and by the Holy Spirit among us today!

 

[Hillsage]

MUCH better off to just stick with what we KNOW what inspired by the Holy Spirit to us, the scriptures themselves!

Amen. And the biblical word for "know" is probably the one that means EXPERIENTIALLY know, as in 'knowing your wife to conceive'. And not all the 'head candy' that has been promoted by the "ungifted/unlearned" who 'think they know'. And, admittedly the great apostasy, which took the church into the dark ages, has truly made that theology, the source so much error, of "the church" of today IMO.

 

[Hillsage]

That would eliminate just about 99.9 % of the stuff that is being alleged to be doing in the name of Jesus and by the Holy Spirit among us today!

Let me check my math....yep, that leaves you guys with an alleged .1% which is pretty much the equivalent of what I did when I was in Lion's Club.