Holy Ghost Hokie Pokie

[lismore]

Hello,

Just wondered if you had encoutered the Holy Ghost Hokie Pokie and your feelings on it. God Bless

 

[bèlla]

I’ve never seen anything like this.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

 

[RaymondG]

It's weird......unconventional.....I like it.

 

[mourningdove~]

Hi lismore ...

I have not encountered it.

My feelings are feelings of sadness ...

- These persons are being taught wrongly about the Holy Spirit, and yet, we need Him so very much for the living of our Christian lives, the renewing of our minds, the transforming into the image of Christ. It is always sad to me, to see persons being misled, mistaught, deceived.

- The Holy Spirit is so very essential to our very survival as followers of Jesus Christ.
To make light of Him (disrespect Him) in this way, is grievous to me.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Hello,

Just wondered if you had encoutered the Holy Ghost Hokie Pokie and your feelings on it. God Bless

I honestly just don’t know what to say here. The words “don’t judge” come to mind so that’s all I’ll say.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Hello,

Just wondered if you had encoutered the Holy Ghost Hokie Pokie and your feelings on it. God Bless

This sort of thing reminds me of scenes and talk about the Lakeland revival and Toronto blessing, and even some scenes at Rick Joyner's Eagle Nest with Todd Bentley...

Jeez I think this actually came from Joyner's group... I stumbled on the same exact clip looking for links to what I was writing above.

I got to say putting the Hokie Pokie aside, out of all the ignorant Christian preachers and teachers out there Rick Joyner is the worst. I got tons to say, on all the stuff I heard him preach years ago that is completely wrong factually speaking....


But on topic, in general many Charismatics and Later Rain Pentecostals equate excitement and novelty with something that is anointed or spiritual. They likewise equate negative things with traditional liturgical worship even though that is not just the norm of Christianity but with the worship of ancient Israel as well. But Joyner's brand of Christianity largely came out of the Jesus movement where the hippies of the Counter Culture got saved and became Christians but largely took that counter culture attitudes and beliefs into Christianity. Now while Christianity is/was a counter culture in terms of its origins with Ancient Rome etc. there are many ways this kind of orientation is bad, because it is largely ahistorical and assumes a lot of things that are not true of the Bible, the Church etc. historically and factually speaking.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

removed

 

[bèlla]

But on topic, in general many Charismatics and Later Rain Pentecostals equate excitement and novelty with something that is anointed or spiritual. They likewise equate negative things with traditional liturgical worship even though that is not just the norm of Christianity but with the worship of ancient Israel as well.

There's a similar thought about mystical experiences. But as I've said in the past, when you enter the ecstatic you encounter both. The idea that every word, feeling, and encounter hails from God is errant. We're supposed to test the spirit.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

 

[lismore]

But on topic, in general many Charismatics and Later Rain Pentecostals equate excitement and novelty with something that is anointed or spiritual.

Hello Pavel. Thanks for your post. To be fair to LRPs and many Charismatics they would probably point to the healing testimonies and the popularity of the meetings and the message and say that the fruit is good. God Bless

 

[Richard T]

To me this type of service is for the less mature. Why? because they start out with the secular kids song to get people moving toward God. It does work, as they finally remove the kids song and start really praising God. Hopefully at some point they will be able to skip the first step and move right into shouting, clapping, and worshiping the Lord. I have been in some services of the latter, and they always were met by the Holy Spirit responding in all kinds of different ways. There is no reason to be reserved with God all the time when the psalms are full of shouts, trumpets, noise, claps, dancing etc.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Hello Pavel. Thanks for your post. To be fair to LRPs and many Charismatics they would probably point to the healing testimonies and the popularity of the meetings and the message and say that the fruit is good. God Bless

Oh sure I know that... that is why I know so much about the movement, I was part of it for a number of years. I'm not totally against it either. It's just the saying "Nature abhors a vacuum". And so many of those folks are basically interpreting the Bible based on their personal experience etc. without any kind of formal study. And I would not even be against this, but these people are heralded as "prophets" and presumed to have deep spiritual insight etc.

A couple years ago I complained about this in an earlier thread, and posted specifically about this problem, I'm reposting one post from Anti-intellectualism and hostility to Theology



"What you brought does remind of something I wanted to mention. There are times when Charismatic Prophets teach from the Bible and make some whopping mistakes (which would have not happened if they researched, took some classes etc.) Which is bad because I think many people are tempted to believe everything they say (unless it is too controversial) and I'm not sure how much of what they prophesy are just gut hunches rather than true revelations. (I have received some accurate personal prophecies, so I'm not denying that exists etc.)

But here are 2 examples:


11Truly I tell you, among those born of womenthere has risen no one greater than Johnthe Baptist. Yet even the least in thekingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Sadu Sundar Selvaraj in preaching seems to imply having a revelation on that passage on why that is. He believes because John doubted while he was in prison is why he isn't as great, but really pretty much the common almost universal interpretation of that passage is because we in the New Testament have a better covenant than the OT one and John was the last minister of the Old Covenant.


Rick Joyner has had some biggies too.

3 Now Moses was a very humbleman, more so than any man on the face of the earth

He believes that Moses was prophesying about himself and has preached to that affect, but in Hebrew class we discussed scribal remarks. At one time, the scribes had a habit of writing clarifying remarks in the text to act like footnotes (to help out the younger people after the customs and culture changed. The sandal swapping remark in Ruth is another example).

 

[mourningdove~]

Hello Pavel. Thanks for your post. To be fair to LRPs and many Charismatics they would probably point to the healing testimonies and the popularity of the meetings and the message and say that the fruit is good. God Bless

With regards to healings and spiritual blessings, it has been my experience that God can choose to bless any time ... including in times when our methods or way of approaching Him may be faulty or questionable ... because God looks at the heart.

And when God sees us seeking Him ... genuinely seeking Him ... I do believe He often does 'reward'.

God really does love us so much ...

 

[lismore]

With regards to healings and spiritual blessings, it has been my experience that God can choose to bless any time ... including in times when our methods or way of approaching Him may be faulty or questionable ... because God looks at the heart.

And when God sees us seeking Him ... genuinely seeking Him ... I do believe He often does 'reward'.

God really does love us so much ...

hello Dove!

Yes I agree 100%. I can look back over my life and see that the Lord was with me and led me down exactly the right path, although it didn't always seem so at the time.

I was filled with the Holy Spirit at a young age and later before going to University I received another dose of the Spirit at a Morris Cerrulo crusade. However since then I've sometimes felt just a little uneasy at some of the things I have seen in churches or heard of on the internet. I believe the Holy Spirit operates in power today but I'm skeptical over some of the manifestations that occur. The Hokie Pokie was something I didn't know what to think about it. God Bless

 

[Pavel Mosko]

The Hokie Pokie was something I didn't know what to think about it. God Bless

The problem with the Hokey Pokey is it is not really an act of worship. It is something that is directed to the people to get them to feel something that is presumable the Holy Spirit. There is a huge contrast between the Hokie Pokie and God ordained worship that you see in the Bible. If you look at the Bible and see what the angels in heaven are doing in the Old Testament, or look in the book of Revelation at what the saints and angels are doing in heaven they are not doing the doing the Hokie Pokie. Besides this I can almost guarantee that you would not see the Hokie Pokie done in the tabernacle or temple (where there were dancers present), or in the synagogue or early church; because, there is one important truth missing from the Hokie Pokie, namely God is a King who is worthy of not just praise but awe, dignity and respect.... The Hokie Pokie does not communicate that, it really does the opposite, it turns an already casual worship service into a silly joke.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Hello,

Just wondered if you had encoutered the Holy Ghost Hokie Pokie and your feelings on it. God Bless

I believe there is a difference between "praise" and "worship". As my Pastor has said, and I'm paraphrasing it, "Praise is when you sing, dance, and shout, but worship is when you're too in awe to say anything". So, I would not call this worship. However, I think it is a time of "enjoying and having fun with God" and can lead to actual praise and worship where God can truely work on the hearts of those involved.

Hopefully these people involved are in regular fellowship and are being taught scripture and how to apply it to their daily walk with God, learning to obey and walk in humbleness with their God. Hopefully learning that doing the Holy Ghost Hokie Pokie is not all there is to God.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Yeah somewhat this article has the 7 words translated as praise used in the Old Testament. They include things like shouting praises, raising hands, singing loudly hymns of God. But what you said is an artificial distinction, the word "praise" itself refers to "extoling God for his greatness", aka being in awe of him...

https://www.aglow.org/images/leaderDev/seven-praise-words.pdf

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Well I guess that saying you learn a new thing everyday is true, picked up this interesting bit of trivia, when I was looking on this today on youtube a quote from the main video covering this....


"Historically, the "hokey pokey" dance was performed by the crazy Shaker religion to mock the equally crazy Catholic religion and in particular the magical nonsense of the Eucharist (final meal of Jesus before the crucifixion) as well as the "sit-stand-kneel" routine of Mass. Continuing the history comes the modern-day insane Christians who have taken the "magical nonsense" of the hokey pokey (hocus pocus) one step further by concluding that performing the dance will bring "miracles" to those who believe. So here my friends, in all its glory, is a crazy Christian church band playing the Holy Ghost Hokey Pokey and extolling its miracle-working powers!"

 

[mourningdove~]

The problem with the Hokey Pokey is it is not really an act of worship. It is something that is directed to the people to get them to feel something that is presumable the Holy Spirit. There is a huge contrast between the Hokie Pokie and God ordained worship that you see in the Bible. If you look at the Bible and see what the angels in heaven are doing in the Old Testament, or look in the book of Revelation at what the saints and angels are doing in heaven they are not doing the doing the Hokie Pokie. Besides this I can almost guarantee that you would not see the Hokie Pokie done in the tabernacle or temple (where there were dancers present), or in the synagogue or early church; because, there is one important truth missing from the Hokie Pokie, namely God is a King who is worthy of not just praise but awe, dignity and respect.... The Hokie Pokie does not communicate that, it really does the opposite, it turns an already casual worship service into a silly joke.

Hi Pavel,
I guess I am presently seeing things much as you do ...
the need for reverence and a spirit of awe and holiness before the Lord ...
but I know for me it is because God is now doing some things in my heart ...
and holiness and awe is mostly the response I am feeling towards Him.

But I have known other times also ...
when I could barely contain the joy of the Lord in my heart ...
especially in my early Christian days ...
and then it was that I felt like doing the Holy Ghost Hop (see video below)!

I very much like the way that @SpiritPsalmist has explained in her post the difference between praise and worship ... and also for the need to advance beyond the stage of the Holy Ghost Hokie Pokie, though really, I can't say that I like that video at all. Something about it just doesn't sit right with my spirit ...

 

[Pavel Mosko]

But I have known other times also ...
when I could barely contain the joy of the Lord in my heart ...
especially in my early Christian days ...
and then it was that I felt like doing the Holy Ghost Hop (see video below)!

Yes beyond the Hokie Pokie much of the other stuff after that part was much the same as any praise and worship service I've been to from place like the Vineyard, various Charismatic meetings etc.


There are some issues though

1) Can bad taste be a sin? I say that both jokingly and seriously.... In my estimation it can be. People forget the unhappy incidents of things going awry
in the Old Testament when it comes to decorum etc. We may be friends of God but we still have things Ananias and Saphira and saint Paul mentioning people falling ill unto death from taking the Communion because of not "recognizing the Body", and his general admissions of the need for decency and order in the Church.



2) Do the churches that foster this sort of thing foster awe and reverence? In my experiences they largely do not. I spent a couple years at a Vineyard that had a similar kind of atmosphere. They used I think the Willow Creek model, where the Church was made to feel as much as possible to be like one giant living room so your unchurched folks would feel comfortable as far "Seeker Sensitive" ideas go. But in that relaxed atmosphere it was common for people to treat the service with equal or less consideration as you would going to a movie. I'm talking about things like chatting with a friend next to you in the middle of the sermon etc. and other kinds of things like that.

 

[mourningdove~]

hello Dove!

Yes I agree 100%. I can look back over my life and see that the Lord was with me and led me down exactly the right path, although it didn't always seem so at the time.

I was filled with the Holy Spirit at a young age and later before going to University I received another dose of the Spirit at a Morris Cerrulo crusade. However since then I've sometimes felt just a little uneasy at some of the things I have seen in churches or heard of on the internet. I believe the Holy Spirit operates in power today but I'm skeptical over some of the manifestations that occur. The Hokie Pokie was something I didn't know what to think about it. God Bless

What a blessing I see it as ... that you were filled with the Holy Spirit at a young age!
(I was much older when I first experienced the Spirit in this way ... like in my 40's!!!)

... God's timing for each of us ... the stories of our lives in Christ ... are fascinating to me. They each have been so uniquely designed by Him to shape and mold us into His purposes and plans for our lives ... and He does it all in Love. What a Great God He is!

I've enjoyed the discussion in this thread. Has made me reflect more than I had intended ...

I share your skepticism ... I have concern ... over some of the manifestations that we see occurring within Christianity, especially in the more charismatic circles. I personally received no 'education' after initially being filled with the Spirit, and so I was very 'open' to supernatural things at that time ... and thought that all supernatural things were of God. That was a mistake. A painful mistake. And I got hurt.

That began a long healing journey with God ... He never abandoned me, in any of that ... but because of my own experiences with lack/poor discernment, I am so not happy to see others potentially be taken on the same sort of painful path.

It is good to discuss these controversial things that we see ...
to shine the light of discernment on them ...